Stationing Police Officers in Public Schools in the U.S. - Cost/Discuss

[SinAscendant]

No, for multiple reasons.

Number one, SROs are the bottom of the barrel on cops. They're either basically retirees, guys who don't want to be in danger, officers they don't want patrolling the streets, or control freaks who get their rocks off intimidating kids. There are a handful of decent ones, but most are either useless or handcuffing 4th graders.

Number 2, 99.9% of the time they will serve zero purpose and just wander about doing nothing. Huge waste of money.

Number 3, this harkens back to number 1. In a real school shooting, they'd be worthless; either because they're shit, or because of the fact that obviously the shooter will know that they exist and plan around them. Hell, maybe they'll just be his first target. Columbine had an officer and it sure didn't help them; and VTech the guy shot two people, fucked around on his computer for three hours and then proceeded to go on his rampage and the cops didn't manage to stop him either.

Face it, this is a kneejerk reaction that wont accomplish anything. Reactive is never the solution, you have to be proactive. Even in the best scenario, the shooter will kill at least one person before being taken down.

[Rustedsaint]

Would there have to a cost increase? I’m sure a lot of police stations have an extre person who could be in a school instead of doing menial work like giving out speeding tickets.

[SinAscendant]

Depends how long until one of those kids commit a crime and fail to comply to simple orders from the police

You mean until one of the kids gets in a fistfight and the little rent a cop goes to break it up and "fears for his life" because the kid's black and on the football team

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Would there have to a cost increase? I’m sure a lot of police stations have an extre person who could be in a school instead of doing menial work like giving out speeding tickets.

Lol what? Speeding tickets makes the department money. And there is a shortage of officers nationwide anyway because people started realizing how shit the cop system is

[urasim]

It also.doesn't work. There was an armed police officer in Florida. For the people that think 1 cop with a pistol is going up against a person with an AR 15 and a death wish look at the chaos in Dallas. Several police were targeted and gunned down by one shooter who shutdown downtown Dallas for hours.

It does and it doesn't work. It all depends. But having no protection means they have free reign. Whereas with a presence of a cop there's the threat to the shooters life.

I don't think I'm sold on this yet, but it does sound better than nothing. If you were a shooter that wanted to cause massive casualties, would you go to a place you know is protected or would you pick people who aren't? This is basic evolutionary psychology. A predator doesn't pick off the strongest prey. They pick off the weak.

[unbound]

This is actually pretty common already in the US and hasn't stopped any shootings to date. Heck, the Parkland shooting / massacre took place at a high school with a police officer stationed there.

So, regardless of cost, it doesn't actually do what you think it would do.

[cubby]

How about at least beginning to fix the underlying issues? Sure, in the mean time you need a quick solution. But any measure will give politicians ample opportunity to say that those cost so much already, that actually tackeling anything above and beyond "just isn't in the budget". A country wrapped in band aids and still bleeding left and right somehow can't be the long term goal.

I'm with you - if it were solely up to me, I'd just abolish the 2nd and get on with fixing our healthcare system. However, it's not - and the gun rights' lobby is strong and deep (not just the NRA), so I'm looking for ideas based off other people's suggestions. Some gun rights' people have suggested arming teachers, which to me is a non-starter. However, many school employ LEO's or SRO's, and they seem to be a good idea, so we're here.

That last line of yours is nicely put, btw.

[Deleted]

Lots of talk about gun regulation and 2nd amendment. But let's look at another policy issue being discussed. Instead of arming teachers, which is a mixed bag at best, let's put a Police Officer in every school in the United States. 10 hour shift (7-5). Good interaction between kids and LEO, which is another educational opportunity, and protection in case of school shooting (we're going to ignore that the Parkland Deputy ran away from the gun fire - and assume that the LEO's we station will do their jobs, protect and defend).

So, costs:

Number of schools: 98,271
Average Police Officer Salary: $59,680

Let's assume that the officers annual salary covers the full school year, including vacations and such, just to simplify.

Total Cost: $5,864,813,280. That's the entire country, every public school - sworn, trained, armed officer on duty at all times.

Thoughts?


Edit: could a mod edit the title and make it "Schools" instead of "Schoola"? Thanks. /editing fail

And wierdly in countries where guns are illegal, there is barely a need for police to patrol the streets, much less schools. Funny that.

[artemishunter1]

I'm with you - if it were solely up to me, I'd just abolish the 2nd and get on with fixing our healthcare system. However, it's not - and the gun rights' lobby is strong and deep (not just the NRA), so I'm looking for ideas based off other people's suggestions. Some gun rights' people have suggested arming teachers, which to me is a non-starter. However, many school employ LEO's or SRO's, and they seem to be a good idea, so we're here.

That last line of yours is nicely put, btw.

while we are at abolishing the 2nd, can we get rid of the 14th? And changing the vote back to only landowning male voter eligible to vote? Far more damage has been done to American citizens, by poor people and women voting for welfare, draining money from infrastructure projects.

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And wierdly in countries where guns are illegal, there is barely a need for police to patrol the streets, much less schools. Funny that.

thats only true for western nations. In eastern nations, police are too corrupt to make any difference. Not to mention, murder rates and violent assault rate increased like Australia. The more diverse a nation is, the more crime rates and unsafe the nation becomes.

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That the very notion of having to have armed guards at schools is hilarious to think of, because it is some third world stuff.

But it is a fair price to save kids I guess, so go for it, not my tax money.

well, America has third world populations as well. Eurocentric systems are being supplemented by third world viewpoints.

[cubby]

And wierdly in countries where guns are illegal, there is barely a need for police to patrol the streets, much less schools. Funny that.

You're preaching the choir here. I'm just looking for policy solutions that people from both "sides" will be interested in at this point.

[artemishunter1]

It's not easy to find a solution to the mental health problem. Because each person is different. But there are lots of signs that we can look out for as a start... The problem is that we'll get a lot of push back because the issue is cultural and that society will need to change. Currently, we're on a path that only makes gun violence more prevalent and worse.

why is that? We had centuries of gun availablilty, yet never school shooting. it began from colombine, and increased now, when gun control issue is being debated. Why the sudden increase?

[Deleted]

well, America has third world populations as well. Eurocentric systems are being supplemented by third world viewpoints.

Last I checked, your third world populations weren't particularly high in the list of people that do school shootings. Not even sure what the second sentence is supposed to mean?

[artemishunter1]

You're preaching the choir here. I'm just looking for policy solutions that people from both "sides" will be interested in at this point.

say we ban guns, and almost completely reduce gun violence. now, how would you deal with the defenseless people getting raped and killed by black and diverse population? Can we sincerely ban them too or is it too far for you? Honestly, black people and hispanic people make the majority of other crime rates, for which we need guns to protect our selves. Without getting rid of these people, you just made everyone else defenseless. How do you resolve this issue?

Infracted

[artemishunter1]

Last I checked, your third world populations weren't particularly high in the list of people that do school shootings. Not even sure what the second sentence is supposed to mean?

They are however responsible for general shootings in the country. Why do you care about kids but not adults? Third world people and their desendents are responsible for bulk of the crime rate such as assult, rape and murder.

[Deleted]

They are however responsible for general shootings in the country. Why do you care about kids but not adults? Third world people and their descendants are responsible for bulk of the crime rate such as assault, rape and murder.

Indeed they are, but a large share of those are criminally related, which is likely going to require a different approach to combat.

[cubby]

say we ban guns, and almost completely reduce gun violence. now, how would you deal with the defenseless people getting raped and killed by black and diverse population? Can we sincerely ban them too or is it too far for you? Honestly, black people and hispanic people make the majority of other crime rates, for which we need guns to protect our selves. Without getting rid of these people, you just made everyone else defenseless. How do you resolve this issue?

I would get rid of all the racist idiots that plague our nation. Probably solve a few dozen problems right there.

[Gaaz]

Let's assume that the officers annual salary covers the full school year, including vacations and such, just to simplify.

Total Cost: $5,864,813,280. That's the entire country, every public school - sworn, trained, armed officer on duty at all times.

Thoughts?

1 police officer is not going to do anything. There was one in Parkland. You need at least one for each entrance. Let us assume 3 per school. It should be more, just count the number of entrances in your nearest school, but for the moment let us stop at this number. So the number triples to 17 billion.
You also need spare employees to cover when someone takes a leave or is sick. Typically the ratio is 1 per 2, but we would be generous and allow for 1 per 3. So that is 23 billion.
You also need to create infrastructure to accommodate them. Based on Southwestern High School in Shelbyville (absolute lowest estimate) it is about 400k per school in equipment alone, plus 3 people to man cameras (2 man shift and one spare). That is extra 40 billion in equipment and another 17 billion for staff. Again, we will be generous and say that equipment cost included installation and rework, even though that number should be at least twice higher.
All in all, for $80 billion (absolute minimum you can hypothetically get away with) you get 3 guards + basic video surveillance + better doors. I should probably remind you now that Trump cancelled his fraction of a cost pet wall project because it did not fit the budget.
You do not need much more than that to buy back all guns in the US at a purchase cost.

[cubby]

1 police officer is not going to do anything. There was one in Parkland. You need at least one for each entrance. Let us assume 3 per school. It should be more, just count the number of entrances in your nearest school, but for the moment let us stop at this number. So the number triples to 17 billion.
You also need spare employees to cover when someone takes a leave or is sick. Typically the ratio is 1 per 2, but we would be generous and allow for 1 per 3. So that is 23 billion.
You also need to create infrastructure to accommodate them. Based on Southwestern High School in Shelbyville (absolute lowest estimate) it is about 400k per school in equipment alone, plus 3 people to man cameras (2 man shift and one spare). That is extra 40 billion in equipment and another 17 billion for staff. Again, we will be generous and say that equipment cost included installation and rework, even though that number should be at least twice higher.
All in all, for $80 billion (absolute minimum you can hypothetically get away with) you get 3 guards + basic video surveillance + better doors. I should probably remind you now that Trump cancelled his fraction of a cost pet wall project because it did not fit the budget.
You do not need much more than that to buy back all guns in the US at a purchase cost.

Um, no - my numbers were very good for doing what I suggested - 1 police officer stationed at every public school in the U.S. Your information, uncited as it is, sounds interesting, but is a different plan altogether. One item your brought up is leave/sick - that is already covered, by other LEO's, just like it would be normally.

[RaoBurning]

how long before one of those cops shot a kid?

The last resource officer at the school I work at tazed* a kid, on accident allegedly, so my guess is like a month, tops.

*One of the shooty kinds, not the super close range kinds.

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why is that? We had centuries of gun availablilty, yet never school shooting. it began from colombine, and increased now, when gun control issue is being debated. Why the sudden increase?

This is laughably false. They've certainly become more frequent and lethal, but Columbine was not, by any stretch, the beginning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

[Narwal]

Lots of talk about gun regulation and 2nd amendment. But let's look at another policy issue being discussed. Instead of arming teachers, which is a mixed bag at best, let's put a Police Officer in every school in the United States. 10 hour shift (7-5). Good interaction between kids and LEO, which is another educational opportunity, and protection in case of school shooting (we're going to ignore that the Parkland Deputy ran away from the gun fire - and assume that the LEO's we station will do their jobs, protect and defend).

So, costs:

Number of schools: 98,271
Average Police Officer Salary: $59,680

Let's assume that the officers annual salary covers the full school year, including vacations and such, just to simplify.

Total Cost: $5,864,813,280. That's the entire country, every public school - sworn, trained, armed officer on duty at all times.

Thoughts?


Edit: could a mod edit the title and make it "Schools" instead of "Schoola"? Thanks. /editing fail

Some schools already have armed guards.

According to the most recent data from the Department of Education, 19 percent of public high schools are patrolled by law enforcement officers during normal school hours. An additional 8 percent are patrolled part of the time. Among middle schools, 10 percent are guarded during normal school hours, and eight percent are guarded part time.

Among schools with enrollment of over 1,000 students--and this includes elementary schools, though there are probably few of this size--a whopping 39 percent of schools are guarded full-time (an additional 12 percent part-time).
And what about other security measures? A few schools have installed metal detectors. Only 2 percent of high schools have them at the door, and an additional 9 percent use them to randomly check students. Forty-five percent of high schools conduct drug sweeps.

These figures are from 1996, and are probably too low.

Notice these statistics are from 1996, so I guarantee they're low. In all honesty, what Trump is proposing is basically nothing. So there should be no outrage to what he has said:

1) Gun-free-zone designation only designates against people not authorized to carry a gun. A teacher can carry a gun, they just have to get authorized to do so. It's more targeted at students. Which, I don't think anyone is saying let's arm the students.
2) Proposing we put police into schools is already taking place. Particularly in the schools that have problems with violence. What he's basically saying is maybe other schools less prone to violence should consider adding armed personnel.

As for who pays for it? The city or local municipality. The same city or municipality that is already paying the salaries of the police force. Schools are 90%+ funded by local/state funds. In essence, if you want your kids to have an armed guard, you pay for it locally. Again, putting these decisions down at the local level should make them a non-controversial issue on the national stage. Yes, there can still be controversy at a local level, but parents have the choice to leave a school over such an issue. As a parent, why do you care if other schools your children do not attend use armed protection? If Trump and the feds want to put up funds for schools to better train their "authorized" gun carriers in schools, that's fine, but that does bring national conversation into it.

[daytonbrown]

This is actually pretty common already in the US and hasn't stopped any shootings to date. Heck, the Parkland shooting / massacre took place at a high school with a police officer stationed there.

So, regardless of cost, it doesn't actually do what you think it would do.

If the officer doesn't back down due to cowardice like in Parkland, they can stop a shooting.

This school officer stopped a school shooting, and it happened only a few days after Parkland, but it was barely a blip on the news because it doesn't make the sexy headlines that a mass school shooting does.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/gr...ing/index.html