I ate too many prunes

[JSA2422]

I’m sure someone else pointed this out already but you actually use it a lot in Antorus. Antorus has classes using abilities they haven’t used in a while. So, it’s very much needed.

I will admit things feel very very slow on alpha especially with this new GCD thing they’re trying to push. It feels like ass as a holy Paladin with AW on the GCD.

Reactive healing becomes an annoyance when it should just be part of being a healer. If your raid fucks up or a couple people fuck up and cause the raid to take more damage than usual you now have to pop your cd and wait instead of popping your CDs and saving lives immediately.

I hope they don’t stick with this. There’s no need for it in pve at all especially when it comes to healer CDs. Being off the gcd means we can use them as needed rather than using them—waiting—healing.

not following the GCD changes or alpha but this is how most folks had to play in the past, more of anticipation vs reaction..i.e. ok he's casting XYZ, ABC might do this, so let me hold off on this GCD spam.

[Quoi]

Reactive healing becomes an annoyance when it should just be part of being a healer. If your raid fucks up or a couple people fuck up and cause the raid to take more damage than usual you now have to pop your cd and wait instead of popping your CDs and saving lives immediately.

I hope they don’t stick with this. There’s no need for it in pve at all especially when it comes to healer CDs. Being off the gcd means we can use them as needed rather than using them—waiting—healing.

Sounds like Blizzard is aiming to make WoW a little more challenging. I am 100% for that. Look at your example of raid screwing up then the healer's having to pop a cooldown. Welcome to having to learn raids, rather than steamrolling through the instance as is so common nowadays. It makes raiding much more of a team effort.

- - - Updated - - -

not following the GCD changes or alpha but this is how most folks had to play in the past, more of anticipation vs reaction..i.e. ok he's casting XYZ, ABC might do this, so let me hold off on this GCD spam.

And depending on how far back in raiding you go, I have to sit and do nothing while my mana recharges, so yea I have lots of free GCDs.

[Taeldorian]

Sounds like Blizzard is aiming to make WoW a little more challenging. I am 100% for that. Look at your example of raid screwing up then the healer's having to pop a cooldown. Welcome to having to learn raids, rather than steamrolling through the instance as is so common nowadays. It makes raiding much more of a team effort.

- - - Updated - - -



And depending on how far back in raiding you go, I have to sit and do nothing while my mana recharges, so yea I have lots of free GCDs.

It doesn’t really make anything more challenging just more annoying. For dps maybe it’ll make dpsing harder as you can’t stack CDs so you’ll need to use all of them at the right time, however we’ll still be doing what we’re doing now as healers but with a second or so in between CDs which doesn’t add a skill ceiling. It just makes reactive healing shitty and annoying.

If they wanna make raiding harder, tune bosses correctly and have mechanics that require more from you than just moving left or right.

[Quoi]

It doesn’t really make anything more challenging just more annoying.


If they wanna make raiding harder, tune bosses correctly and have mechanics that require more from you than just moving left or right.

More annoying to you, and I'm sure, many other people, but not to me, and I'm sure, many other people.

Having to pay attention to what abilities to use when and to pay attention to the GCD is not a bad thing, and in many respects, makes a player more skilled. When I say skilled, I mean as a player. In reality, the high majority of all WoW boss fights can be summed up in a few words; stay out of the fire. Adding GCD requirements adds a layer of challenge/hurdle to all boss mechanics. In addition, since all abilities will be slaved to the GCD, things can be balanced easier (on the backend) because servers won't have to resolve non-gcd differences in timing.

In short; slaving to the GCD can increase player skillcap, and reduce server processing power.

EDIT: Not to mention that it, with pruning of abilities, can constructively both speed up and slow down aspects of the game and make individual abilities more impactful.

[Taeldorian]

More annoying to you, and I'm sure, many other people, but not to me, and I'm sure, many other people.

Having to pay attention to what abilities to use when and to pay attention to the GCD is not a bad thing, and in many respects, makes a player more skilled. When I say skilled, I mean as a player. In reality, the high majority of all WoW boss fights can be summed up in a few words; stay out of the fire. Adding GCD requirements adds a layer of challenge/hurdle to all boss mechanics. In addition, since all abilities will be slaved to the GCD, things can be balanced easier (on the backend) because servers won't have to resolve non-gcd differences in timing.

In short; slaving to the GCD can increase player skillcap, and reduce server processing power.

EDIT: Not to mention that it, with pruning of abilities, can constructively both speed up and slow down aspects of the game and make individual abilities more impactful.

No that’s not really the case at all. Bear in mind I’m strictly speaking about healers and how the GCD affects them (as I mentioned in my first post).

As a healer, we already have to pre plan our CDs and coordinate them with other healers regardless of the GCD. However, when the raid fucks up but recovery is possible we now have to wait before we heal if we use a CD. That doesn’t add any skill, we already have to think before doing, but as a healer there are situations like recovering from a fuck up where split second decision making is required and the GCD takes away from that. It’s not taking any more skill to push a CD and wait a few seconds, it’s just going to make reactive healing very bothersome.

Pre planning and thinking ahead is already part of the job as a healer. With the GCD your just going to have to use your CD before any damage goes out so you can actually heal when the damage is out. This doesn’t change how we play it just makes our role more annoying and it wastes uptime on our healing CDs.

[Master Guns]

Yep. I went from 70+ binds in MoP to somewhere around 30 in WoD and beyond. Catering to the lowest denominator is Activision-Blizzard's MO.

...right, because having 70 keybinds is normal, right? How is that even remotely considered fun? You don't even have enough keys for that, you'd HAVE to use a mouse.

Sorry, but you're not the norm if you think that's "acceptable".

[Quoi]

No that’s not really the case at all. Bear in mind I’m strictly speaking about healers and how the GCD affects them (as I mentioned in my first post).

As a healer, we already have to pre plan our CDs and coordinate them with other healers regardless of the GCD. However, when the raid fucks up but recovery is possible we now have to wait before we heal if we use a CD. That doesn’t add any skill, we already have to think before doing, but as a healer there are situations like recovering from a fuck up where split second decision making is required and the GCD takes away from that. It’s not taking any more skill to push a CD and wait a few seconds, it’s just going to make reactive healing very bothersome.

Pre planning and thinking ahead is already part of the job as a healer. With the GCD your just going to have to use your CD before any damage goes out so you can actually heal when the damage is out. This doesn’t change how we play it just makes our role more annoying and it wastes uptime on our healing CDs.

Like you said, pre-planning is part of your job as healer.

If the raid screws up, they screw up. It's part of learning an instance. Being able to recover on a constant basis with non-gcd cooldowns trivializes the encounters. Your natural retort is to say to tune the raid. What is the outcome of that? I would say that these cooldowns become crutches to hobble through encounters over actually learning the encounter. Boss fights in WoW generally are conceptually easy to begin with, and as I've mentioned before, can be summed up in a few words; stay out of the fire.

Not to mention that, like most people in this thread, there seems to be a disconnect between theorycrafting potential changes, not to the future content, but to current content. Tell me, what if boss fights in bfa are slower in nature? In early days of MC boss fights could easily be 20+ minutes long. What if the fights are less seat of the pants spam healing/dpsing/tanking for 5 minutes? You would have the gcds to spare.

To comment on your last sentence, again, it depends on the other changes made to combat in general and the spells themselves. Blizzard can easily change the spell, or bake in a passive to maintain the same uptime. Or change the encounters such that the new uptime/spell has the same raid impact as it does today.

[Taeldorian]

Like you said, pre-planning is part of your job as healer.

If the raid screws up, they screw up. It's part of learning an instance. Being able to recover on a constant basis with non-gcd cooldowns trivializes the encounters. Your natural retort is to say to tune the raid. What is the outcome of that? I would say that these cooldowns become crutches to hobble through encounters over actually learning the encounter. Boss fights in WoW generally are conceptually easy to begin with, and as I've mentioned before, can be summed up in a few words; stay out of the fire.

Not to mention that, like most people in this thread, there seems to be a disconnect between theorycrafting potential changes, not to the future content, but to current content. Tell me, what if boss fights in bfa are slower in nature? In early days of MC boss fights could easily be 20+ minutes long. What if the fights are less seat of the pants spam healing/dpsing/tanking for 5 minutes? You would have the gcds to spare.

To comment on your last sentence, again, it depends on the other changes made to combat in general and the spells themselves. Blizzard can easily change the spell, or bake in a passive to maintain the same uptime. Or change the encounters such that the new uptime/spell has the same raid impact as it does today.

We would’ve already heard about or seen those changes. Even if not you’re assuming a ton. If nothing changes and the only thing that changes is CDs being added to the gcd then combat is going to feel like shit. You can’t just assume the whole game is going to change like that, you give feedback based on what you have not what you think you’ll get.

Playing with it on alpha feels like ass. I’m not guessing, I’m giving feedback based on actually trying it. Feels terrible. There’s no skill that’s added along with this. It’s not going to change what I do or how I play, all it’s doing is wasting uptime on my CD while not allowing me to heal for a second or two after popping it. That’s annoying and nothing else.

[YouWillAllAnswerToSithis]

Whelp, more room for the introduction of new spells and... a new flavor of prunes that will be branded afterward.

[Deleted]

YOu ate too many prunes? thanks for the info.

[TheWorkingTitle]

...right, because having 70 keybinds is normal, right? How is that even remotely considered fun? You don't even have enough keys for that, you'd HAVE to use a mouse.

Sorry, but you're not the norm if you think that's "acceptable".

Stop getting stuck on that number and try and look at the actual point I'm making. Back then, there were way more abilities for classes, and people that preferred to get every ounce out of their character's potential were able to do so. Since then, classes have been pruned far too much and those players now no longer have that choice.

Players who don't like using everything available to their class could have been just fine not using those extra abilities, but instead enough complaining occurred to the point that Blizzard changed classes irreparably.

This came as a loss to the game as a whole, and it shows.

[FelPlague]

Stop getting stuck on that number and try and look at the actual point I'm making. Back then, there were way more abilities for classes, and people that preferred to get every ounce out of their character's potential were able to do so. Since then, classes have been pruned far too much and those players now no longer have that choice.

Players who don't like using everything available to their class could have been just fine not using those extra abilities, but instead enough complaining occurred to the point that Blizzard changed classes irreparably.

This came as a loss to the game as a whole, and it shows.

yeah no your argument is bad, you keep saying "We had so many abilities, so many choices" then we did the math and for example affliction lock only has 5 less spells then before, then you did a complete 180 and made a hypocritical argument of "WHen we are talking about cataclysm, spells you use once in a blue moon still count, but now adays we are not going to count those"

you either count both, or you count neither, you can count them where you want to, then not count them where you dont.

[TheWorkingTitle]

yeah no your argument is bad, you keep saying "We had so many abilities, so many choices" then we did the math and for example affliction lock only has 5 less spells then before, then you did a complete 180 and made a hypocritical argument of "WHen we are talking about cataclysm, spells you use once in a blue moon still count, but now adays we are not going to count those"

you either count both, or you count neither, you can count them where you want to, then not count them where you dont.

I don't know what the hell you're on about, but I never talked to you about any Warlock stuff. In fact, I didn't even talk to you in this thread. What the actual fuck.

[FelPlague]

I don't know what the hell you're on about, but I never talked to you about any Warlock stuff. In fact, I didn't even talk to you in this thread. What the actual fuck.

oh misstook you for someone else because you went rigt away into numbers of spells.

well yeah for example affliction lock had 36 spells and now has 31. so there ya go
and players still have a massive amount of choice, considering choices techniccly more, as they have more large talent options then they did back in cata, yeah you had the talent tree but it was 3-4 actives, with a bunch of "1% crit"

- - - Updated - - -

He also has every profession and item bound on his bars lol plus the mounts and a pet bar.. Besides 90% of abilities nowadays are not even used in combat, especially if you don't pvp.

Realistically you only need like 10 things bound now? I don't even see an actual binding of keys in that S/S but it could be small text.

yeah i have a pet bar? im a warlock...
also 10?

you can remove the bottom right one cause its pvp curse.



and there is 3 more actives i could have chosen but decided not to, but those are all needed to be bound.
but thats a fair amount more then "10"

[TheWorkingTitle]

oh misstook you for someone else because you went rigt away into numbers of spells.

well yeah for example affliction lock had 36 spells and now has 31. so there ya go
and players still have a massive amount of choice, considering choices techniccly more, as they have more large talent options then they did back in cata, yeah you had the talent tree but it was 3-4 actives, with a bunch of "1% crit"

You should probably stop and think before you spew more bullshit. But nah, just keep on postin'. I've already gone over how many abilities Mage has lost since WoD's destruction. I have way less choice now comparatively. Many other classes are in the same boat.

[FelPlague]

You should probably stop and think before you spew more bullshit. But nah, just keep on postin'. I've already gone over how many abilities Mage has lost since WoD's destruction. I have way less choice now comparatively. Many other classes are in the same boat.

Can you show me how much choice mage had before hand?

[TheWorkingTitle]

Can you show me how much choice mage had before hand?

From MoP to WoD, as a Fire Mage, I lost all of these spells - Cone of Cold, Ice Lance, Deep Freeze, Shatter (Passive), Arcane Explosion, Presence of Mind, Blizzard, Mage Armor, Frost Armor, Mirror Image, Alter Time, Arcane Blast, Frostbolt, Frostfire bolt, Conjure Mana Gem, Evocation, and Frostjaw.

[FelPlague]

From MoP to WoD, as a Fire Mage, I lost all of these spells - Cone of Cold, Ice Lance, Deep Freeze, Shatter (Passive), Arcane Explosion, Presence of Mind, Blizzard, Mage Armor, Frost Armor, Mirror Image, Alter Time, Arcane Blast, Frostbolt, Frostfire bolt, Conjure Mana Gem, Evocation, and Frostjaw.

you gained improved flamestrike (passive)
you gained inferno blast (passive)
You gained Improved scorch (passive)
You gained enchaned pyrotechnics (passive)
(among other spells im sure, including the new talent row. just i dont know all the spells they had so)

Presenece of mind got replaced with evanesce it was not just "removed"
uhh no you didnt lose frostjaw... you still had the choice of frostjaw in wod. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Guide-for-6-2 teir 45 talent
alter time became a talent in wod, so not lost, just a talent.

also looking at mop guide, like 90% of those where NEVER used. no cone, lance, freeze, shatter, explosion, blizzard, mage or frost armor, arcane, frostbolt, frostfire, frostjaw.

[Deleted]

In WoD I had about 15 keybinds, in Legion I have 13 in PvE and a bit more in PvP.

Is that not enough for the game? Do you need a plethora of 100 options every GCD?

[Heavens Night]

Too many prunes turn a game shit.

I hate prunes, almost as much as I hate orcs.

Don't prune me baby.