So... Wait, we're serious with this?

[Swampmoose]

Yep, that's what world pvp is supposed to be, you are playing a MMORPG not a MOBA, it's not supposed to be a equal field.

False. Move along.

[redwolfrain]

I remember a post on the official forums, where a blue quoted something like this. "PvP is not balanced around one vs one duels, but group play." Now they wonder "why does everyone hate getting killed and camped by people who are playing the flavor of the month class". Honestly I would like the pvp gear from MoP to return that lets a pvp have a chance vs a mythic raider in much better gear. I really enjoyed the scaling armor, it was okay in pve and great in pvp.

[Jngizu]

I remember the days you wouldn't be able to level in STV and you had to logout and call the day because horde or ally were teaming up killing people, so in world defence channel opposite faction would call for help. It was full of fun and challenges. Today game is full of crybabies.

You can litteraly fly and can lvl without even seeing the sunlight(dungeons) or questing-exploring. You get killed few times by a higher level player and you get stressed and annoyed?

To people like this i recommend to check out the name of the game they play.

Having someone with a similar level and gear attack you, and having to survive and maybe outplay him might be fun (I understand why it's not for a lot of people).

Not being able to quest in Hellfire Peninsula because a few max-level dickheads roam around the zone killing the NPC's and corpse-camp people is NOT fun. It never was, an never will be. And it says a lot more about the person finding this fun than for the people that have a problem with it.

Like we get it, your life sucks IRL and you got bullied in school, just leave us the fuck alone.

(The last part wasn't particularly addressed to you.)

The quality of imbalances of world PvP as witnessed in Legion is relatively new (mainly brought to you by broken scaling (itself a result of the increasing division between PvE and PvP balancing), Legiondaries and unwise balance decisions (especially when it comes to tanks)). That's what you get if you disregard the core mechanics of the game while slapping band-aid solutions ontop of everything (and replace them with entirely new ones every expansion). Things like world PvP go down the shitter because they're just collateral damage. I'll be honest with you. I didn't really enjoy world PvP in Legion but it was the most fun you could possibly have (to me at least) in the game up until Legion pre-patch. Ganking isn't the normal scenario when it comes to world PvP. Most of the time it's a 1v1 and sometimes it evolves into bigger skirmishes. The open nature of these fights is what makes it fun. The fact that you can use every tool the game has to offer in order to gain an advantage over your enemy. This freedom can't be found in any other part of the game. Taking it away because you dislike getting ganked (which is pretty unlikely these days) is nonsensical because the game offers you a simple choice at the server selection: PvE or PvP (also you can pretty much level only through dungeons). But to you it's probably not even about getting ganked. You simply dislike (world)PvP and lack the ability to empathize why other people might enjoy it and therefore their fun has to be toxic.

Yeah that's nice and all, but if you think ganking doesn't happen anymore, you should come and play on Korean servers where some zones like Hellfire Peninsula or Hyjal are almost unplayable. And with classes like DH, you can't even escape them by flying as they can dismount > Throw Glaives and one-shot you anyway. I'm not even mentioning Argus where people with 960+ (always Rogues or Ferals of course) gank alts that barely dinged 110 a few hours before.

[Deleted]

Utility and balance aside, what bugs me the most is class design.

All specs are strictly designed to work in a raid or mythic+ environment now, and this is further emphasized by the PvP talents; they mostly try to fix a spec to work in PvP, with talents like Demonic Origins and Void Origins, which offer no utility whatsoever but instead try to make the spec PvP viable.

That means that some specs work for PvP right off the bat while others need fixing. The PvP team needs to partially rework each spec with instanced PvP in mind to make it fun to play as and against, e.g. making Void Eruption have no cast time by default when in instanced PvP without needing to take the talent, shifting a Destro's damage from the artifact ability to the hard hitting signature Chaos Bolt, which has more counter play like LoS, etc.

Since classes are designed to be competitive in a PvE encounter and not to clash with one another, such changes don't have to affect or be affected by how PvE works. The cooldown, cast time, damage and resource cost of abilities need to be independent from PvE. Sticking to the Spriest example, while the Voidform mechanic might work in PvE, it is impossible to stay that long in Voidform in PvP.

We are no longer in the time where they were afraid to make Frost Mages viable in raids because it would break PvP.

[Gardoc]

I've never seen so many assumptions in one post so that's neat. Thanks for that. I play on a PVE realm, and no, I haven't been ganked in a long time nor do I necessarily dislike PvP. Nor did I suggest we should remove wpvp, my point simply was that player generally dislike wpvp because you nearly always didn't want to fight anyone, and the fights are nearly always unwinnable unless you play a tank or are exceptionally higher geared than your attacker. Which is fine, the problem is when you are forced to enter situations were WPVP is a possibility (pvp world quests) you might say that no one forces you to go into those areas, but especially at the start of the expansion or on a fresh alt, those quests generally give the most AP/ best WQ gear, so you go to do them and you're just obliterated by a fully raid geared toon with like 3x your HP and 10x your damage - if that's your idea of fun fair enough, but I believe fun at the expense of someone else is not good for the game long-term.

- - - Updated - - -

I can log my 970+ DK right now, spec blood and literally be unkillable and just farm people trying to do world quests. All that does is ruin their experience and make me an asshole, it's really not that complicated.

He literally said that in the beginning, that they ruined world PVP with broken scaling and unwwise balance decisions.

[Narzok]

...Ganking isn't the normal scenario when it comes to world PvP. Most of the time it's a 1v1 and sometimes it evolves into bigger skirmishes...

i have leveled a lot of different chars, and i cannot say the same about my WPvP experience.

out of 10 WPvP situations, maybe 1 or 2 were even, and they got ruined by other bypassers on either side, making it a gankfest.

[Devilyaki]

It being unfun is a big point plus it is less about skill, though there are skillful pvp players it usually comes to ether gear or numbers.

[Gardoc]

False. Move along.

False? So MMORPGs aren't about getting better gear to became more powerful?

[Nerovar]

I've never seen so many assumptions in one post so that's neat. Thanks for that. I play on a PVE realm, and no, I haven't been ganked in a long time nor do I necessarily dislike PvP.

I'm happy to hear that.

Nor did I suggest we should remove wpvp, my point simply was that player generally dislike wpvp because you nearly always didn't want to fight anyone, and the fights are nearly always unwinnable unless you play a tank or are exceptionally higher geared than your attacker.

If you rarely encounter fights that seem winnable maybe you're part of the problem.

Which is fine, the problem is when you are forced to enter situations were WPVP is a possibility (pvp world quests) you might say that no one forces you to go into those areas,

No one forces you to go in those areas.

but especially at the start of the expansion or on a fresh alt, those quests generally give the most AP/ best WQ gear, so you go to do them and you're just obliterated by a fully raid geared toon with like 3x your HP and 10x your damage

Fully raid gear toons at the start of the expansion? Seems like an unusually rare encounter. And yes, you can get killed easily by someone who has more gear. I don't see the problem. It's not supposed to be a fair environment. You're playing a god damn RPG.

- if that's your idea of fun fair enough, but I believe fun at the expense of someone else is not good for the game long-term.

Also I didn't say that it's fun to kill someone with less gear than you (as a PvP player I am at a disadvantage when it comes to gear most of the time). I merely said that I like the open nature of world PvP and it seemed to work just fine until Legion.

[Vargur]

Because
- I have no desire of hurting other players' avatars
- I hate losing
- I don't feel like learning every possible trick just to have the upper edge
- dozens of other reasons

?

[Narzok]

False? So MMORPGs aren't about getting better gear to became more powerful?

i think what he means is that wpvp is not about an overgeared dickhead blasting lowbies into orbit for shit and giggles.

and if you need better gear and a less skilled opponent to feel stronger by beating them...

[Khallid]

The quote is kind of hilarious and sad at the same time. Devs definitely don't play the game. World pvp is usually unexpected and unfair. I played for a while in a pvp server and it was noticeable that classes that can stealth (Rogues and Druids) would use the tactic of waiting for me to pull some mobs and then kill me really easily while I'm engaged with multiple NPCs that won't suddenly drop threat just because I'm being attacked by a player. There's just nothing to do in that situation.

[Cosmic Janitor]

World PvP is not fair, at all, which is not fun, that is all there is to it. Unless you enjoy behing an asshole to others there is really nothing there. The overwhelming majority of encounters get's decided by gear, level or number of opponents. The majority of the remaining by class. All that is left is some miracle chance encounter that actually is enjoyable to everyone, which is certainly not worth the hassle on the way to your daily chores.

I actually wanted them to make PvP purely optional without benefits. Because after this expansion it would have been clear that most people only endure PvP servers because of friends, connections, monetary reasons or pride, without actually enjoying it. Sadly it seems I won't be getting my statistics now .

[Gardoc]

i think what he means is that wpvp is not about an overgeared dickhead blasting lowbies into orbit for shit and giggles.

and if you need better gear and a less skilled opponent to feel stronger by beating them...

I agree with that, I've never ganked lowbies and I thinks it's stupid. But it's a part of the game and it's what makes (or at least made) the world alive and dangerous.

[Jujudrood]

TL;DR - Most people don't like and/or partake in PVP in the world because there is literally zero point in doing it.

"Real PVPers" do rated BGs/high end arenas, then there are the rest, comprised of different flavors of folks from griefers to boredom-stricken to the flat out bad but can't admit to themselves they are bad ones.
The game gave you plenty to do otherwise, so most people otherwise just want to spend that time doing those things (leveling, WQs, etc) as quickly as possible.
Aside from the random gank due to boredom, most PVP battles include several seconds, even minutes depending on how pesky/irritating both parties play, where, at the end, you either die and corpse run with no gain or win and get a pittance of honor.
It's a waste of time, is what it boils down to, and nothing they've done has changed that.

Now that there's 'War Mode', make WPVP kills of targets your level worth more, whether it be honor, conquest, maybe loot their corpse for coin/chance at loot (not the player's loot, but like a loot box), something to make it even remotely desirable because otherwise people just want to play the game and do the things they want without the hassle of a pointless corpse run or otherwise wasting time to kill something when it yields nothing in return.
Hell, make the next iteration of War Mode a Bounty type of system, where players rack up a bounty on their head for each consecutive kill, then if you kill them, you get a reward based on their Notoriety Tier or some shit.
Anything to make it even remotely worthwhile to do outside of MAYBE launch day for the bonus xp when the factions are split on their own little islands, free of max level players.
Otherwise, the sharding from the toggle will (allegedly) balance the factions, so it will be either opposing faction players see each other and just carry on with their days (what mainly happens on the PVP servers on which I play) or attack each other, get a laughable amount of honor, then realize they just wasted time doing something pointless when they could have been grinding rep/gear/whatever.

[Artelia]

World pvp is unbalanced more then ever. Tanks with damage of dps and invicibility killing everything. Blizzard : Why they don't play pvp ?
Battlegrounds are boring because it's about how many healers you have. Blizzard : They still don't pvp?
1v1 is non existant. Everything is balanced about 3v3. Blizzard: I got it! they need new Brawl!
Arenas are boring after 100 games. Still same combos and same shit. Blizzard : Why they don't pvp ?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I mean it explains why I avoid competative organized PvP.

I don't wanna be the weakest link who gets laid into for costing us wins. Or just the random healer that always takes the blame.

It's why I avoid competative games in general.





Though for World PvP it's more there's two kinds of people in this world. The Ganker, and the Gankee. Guess which one wants to World PvP and which one doesn't.

[Gen4Glock21]

Stupid fun Tarren Mill vs Southshore was fun even as a non-PVPer.

Soon as they layered all the "nuance" and horseshit via incessant stun locking and over-heavy CC and counter gameplay maybe that made it more fun for PVPers (and good for them, they deserve fun), but it made it an unwelcoming hell for casual or reluctant PVPers.

What they need to do is have a LFPVP, a normal PVP, and a Mythic PVP bracket and pare down the ability sets respectively.

^This! I am casual and when I que for pvp and loose 9 out 10 matches I say FUG IT!! I once tried to complete the weekly win 10 random arena's. It took me nearly 8 hours of being steamrolled by organized groups to the occasional pug group. This happens in all forms of PVP too. They figure out a way to bar organized high ranking groups from queing against casual pug groups I will try it again. Until then, I will avoid it at all cost.

[Castrum]

I avoid BG PvP and other forms of organized PvP mostly because if you're on the side that's full of noobs, you might as well quit the match. No one likes losing, or standing around the graveyard waiting to respawn endlessly. Old AV had it right in that so long as you had fairly-competent PvPers on the frontlines, the PvE crowd or less-skilled PvPers could work toward spawning the big badass mob that would turn the tide for you (I'm glad Warfronts are going this route). Every other BG really doesn't have that element to it.and it shows, and since AV is a Zerg Rush map these days since it got changed from its original design, there's nothing comparable to satisfy those who aren't into high-level play. Most BGs feel the same and it hurts the game as a result. I could also mention how meaningless old WPvP BGs like Wintergrasp and Tol Barad are, in that no one does them, and when one faction constantly camps one of them (ex. Alliance in Tol Barad), it just deters the other faction from even bothering to try to dislodge them because some cross-realmed asshats from Illidan or Stormrage will swarm them to death.

EDIT: Personally, I want to see weekly events like the BG/Arena ones, except for old WPvP areas, kind of like how TW raiding works. Give people an incentive to go fight over WG or TB or w/e.

[onesBronson]

If pvp was on even ground then sure, I'd do it all the time in open world. But supposed I'm still leveling, and the enemy massively outgear/outlevel me when we engage in battle. Is it even fair pvp anymore? Do I really stand a chance despite my disadvantage? Of course not, but thats just one instance of pvp I see myself in most of the time.