So... Wait, we're serious with this?

[FecundDecay]

I'm going to preface this with a 'wat' and a 'why' and bring in a quote from the front page here.


So, right. Why do people avoid PvP, exactly? It couldn't be the fact that PvP in this game can be intoxicating without the other party even trying to be toxic. This lack of awareness is almost fucking legendary, honestly. The idea that they don't know after a decade of PvP servers, /pvp toggle and shoehorning WPvP into almost every expansion why people tend to avoid PvP is fucking laughable.
Of course some players do not like PvP. I honestly fail to see how they don't know, but it's because it involves A) Fighting against a player (which has more skills, health, mobility than any sort of mob, AI or not) B) Taking time away from what they were already doing in the open world (they act like there suddenly isn't enough to do, again.) and C) The lack of reward for actually successfully engaging and killing another player is just astonishingly bad for anyone not looking to get a quick dose of dopamine and adrenaline.

They couldn't be less aware if they were a turtle inside it's shell inside a box inside a lead crate at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

Yea..... I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that depending on your class choice PVP is either idiotically simple or infuriatingly difficult to succeed in. I used to play tons of PVP through Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath - and as the Melee classes continued to become more powerful and caster classes felt more and more tied down to standing still and easily interruptible cast-time abilities, PvP became less enjoyable. Now that I have 110s of almost ever class, there are characters (and even specs of those characters) that I love to PVP on and those I can't stand to PVP on - and it has nothing to do with the players having "more skill, health, mobility," etc as you state - it has everything to do with the glaring imbalance between the in-game power of melee classes and the in-game power of most ranged specs - coupled with Blizzard's seeming inability to find a good balance for Healers in PVP that isn't either extreme of them being unkillable gods or laughable free kills.

No - it's not player skill or health that makes me avoid PVP - it's the fact that the PVP experience / skill cap / difficulty level from one class and/or spec to another is completely appallingly bad.

[Svisalith]

All I know is I would be happy if PVP was a completely separate thing entirely including on the forums, so I don't even have to think about it or interact with PVPers whatsoever. Not forcing pve changes because of pvp was a big step in that direction, but now it seems like they are trying to force pvp again with the warfront stuff.

Warfronts are PVE

[plagueshard801]

It required an even distribution of ganking and getting ganked, but I never minded world pvp. I came to accept people will probably gank me, so fuck it man, im not above one shotting the poor alliance guy to cross my path.

[Swampmoose]

Nice arguments like saying false without explaining anything.

The explanation was in my original post. I don't need to repost it for every person who skips straight to the last page.

[Kralljin]

Because World PvP is simply a shitshow.

As Shaman main, i just started to despise World PvP from BC and onwards.
Ever since BC i felt that Shaman has been sitting at the bottom of the foodchain as far as World PvP is concerned, you lack defensive CD's, mobility and quick burst to kill people.
Whenever i went out in the World on my Shaman and got sapped while i forgot to equip my PvP gear beforehand i knew i was dead, because a Rogue in PvE Gear would tear me to shreds within seconds unless i had a buttload of resilience, similiar story with any other Melee.

And quite honestly, it has gotten worse due the template system, the PvP World Quest (Blackrook hold arena, Murlocs in Aszuna, etc.) are just outright terrible unless you play a Tank or Top 1v1 class, any other class won't enjoy it once those show up.
If certain classes blow all their CD's on you, you're dead within seconds unless you instantly use a massive % reduction or outright immunity.

Unless that PvP Mode turns into a early Tol Barad 2.0 where factions enter a nonaggression pact to quickly yield more rewards, i fully expect that only 2 types of people will use that mode:

1.People that organize themselves in a group and are ready to gank
2.People that play a decent gank / solo class (DH,DK,Rogue, Tank, etc.)

Any person that does not want to group up to gank other people or plays one of these "Ganker" classes should just stay away from that mode, as everyone will gang up on those for easy kills.

[dacoolist]

I typically don't try to kill players or grief them, I do this IF THEY do this to me first. I even let people attack me, and heal through it 50% of the time (Unless I start to actually die, then I blow cds etc)..

I like my PVP in a more FAIR level playing field: In rando bg's (Somewhat fair), and Rated Arena etc (Damn fair if you ask me, obvious flavor/comp matters here of course)

[Kiwijello]

Dear Blizzard,

I do not engage in PVP because I do not find getting ridiculed and screamed at by 12 year old boys (that includes the 40 year old boys who act 12, etc...). I don't want to spend half a match putting people on ignore.

PVP was fun when it was faction against faction. Now your own faction is too busy in-fighting to win anything.

TLDR: PVP is frustrating and not worth the time.

[dacoolist]

Dear Blizzard,

I do not engage in PVP because I do not find getting ridiculed and screamed at by 12 year old boys (that includes the 40 year old boys who act 12, etc...). I don't want to spend half a match putting people on ignore.

PVP was fun when it was faction against faction. Now your own faction is too busy in-fighting to win anything.

TLDR: PVP is frustrating and not worth the time.

But it's never fun just WINNING ok, you have to have everyone yelling at you at the SAME TIME for the game to just FEEL right, knowhutimsayinnnnn #LEAGUEOFLEGENDS

[Aggrophobic]

I can understand instanced PvP, areans and such. It's not something I enjoy that much but I get why people do. World PvP is just ganking though. It's all about attacking the player that can't defend themselves. It's in no way fair and I can't for the life of me understand why people think it's fun. Just to piss people off? It's like the game computer game version of bullying or kicking someone thats already down. I want no part of that.

PvP in WoW is not fun. Trying to force people into it is a bad idea and they should rethink that part of BfA sooner rather than later.

[Release]

I don't know if anybody here played warhammer online but the one thing that game got right was pvp. It was so so much fun and shits on wow's pvp even 10 or however many years later.

[Gardoc]

The explanation was in my original post. I don't need to repost it for every person who skips straight to the last page.

No it wasn't. You didn't explain why the statement "world PVP in MMORPGs isn't supposed to be a equal field" is false.

[Thage]

I guess the devs can't fathom why some players don't want their game experience dictated by the whims of a bored Gladiator killing them in three cooldowns and corpse-camping them for an hour, even though they specifically mentioned offsetting the time lost to PvP as the reason why War Mode players will get increased exp and rewards.

[Wondercrab]

They can't possibly look at all the other competitive games their company puts out and not realise how shockingly bad WoW PvP is by comparison. The game just wasn't built with this kind of gameplay in mind.

I mean I doubt it's something they'd outright admit for PR reasons, but that dev comment was really awkward as a result.

[Lex Icon]

Not at all, WPvP for people that dont care about it is ganking because thats all you'll ever be in contact with.

We used to raid whole continents, being chased through multiple zones by Allies, making base camps ontop of roofs and other hard to climb area's, starting all out server wars, I made friends through the Alliance side over just WPvP.

WPvP for us was pretty much the act of keeping the world alive and real.

all fun things.. sadly the forums been bombarded with "i rolled on a pvp server because they are better raiders" or "i rolled on a pvp server because my friends did and i hate it" type of stuff. the playerbase truly are the greatest enemy of gameplay.

[Aggrophobic]

Not at all, WPvP for people that dont care about it is ganking because thats all you'll ever be in contact with.

We used to raid whole continents, being chased through multiple zones by Allies, making base camps ontop of roofs and other hard to climb area's, starting all out server wars, I made friends through the Alliance side over just WPvP.

WPvP for us was pretty much the act of keeping the world alive and real.

World PvP was always about attacking people that had no intrest in being attacked. Thats the core of it. It was the same back in vanilla and it still is. If you want that crap though, thats fine. As long as it does give PvE related rewards and as long as I'm able to stay out of it.

[Azerate]

Most people are just not interested in PVP, and especially World PVP. No matter how good or bad it is.

PVE can be hard but it's learnable, masterable through repetition. PVP is always of volatile nature, you are never guaranteed anything, and you compete directly with other people. And whether you are better than those people or not results in you winning or losing. At the same time, you doing 90% dps on a boss and another guy doing 95% dps on the boss doesn't make you lose as long as you down it.

People in this thread are mentioning some mmorpgs with great pvp...I have no expertise in this area, but what I know is that all other mmorpgs have already died, or are currently dying, so apparently there is just no demand for pvp.

Grouping all those who want to WPVP in some way is a good idea though. There is nothing wrong with providing what a group of people wants to them, if it can be done with a relatively low effort

[Dystemper]

I'm going to preface this with a 'wat' and a 'why' and bring in a quote from the front page here.


So, right. Why do people avoid PvP, exactly? It couldn't be the fact that PvP in this game can be intoxicating without the other party even trying to be toxic. This lack of awareness is almost fucking legendary, honestly. The idea that they don't know after a decade of PvP servers, /pvp toggle and shoehorning WPvP into almost every expansion why people tend to avoid PvP is fucking laughable.
Of course some players do not like PvP. I honestly fail to see how they don't know, but it's because it involves A) Fighting against a player (which has more skills, health, mobility than any sort of mob, AI or not) B) Taking time away from what they were already doing in the open world (they act like there suddenly isn't enough to do, again.) and C) The lack of reward for actually successfully engaging and killing another player is just astonishingly bad for anyone not looking to get a quick dose of dopamine and adrenaline.

They couldn't be less aware if they were a turtle inside it's shell inside a box inside a lead crate at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

another example of how out of touch these devs are with the player base and why they need to be replaced

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'm not surprised. Haven't the last couple expansions been a never-ending stream of PVPers lamenting how out of touch the PVP devs are?

At least the PVE devs are shining. :d

All I know is I would be happy if PVP was a completely separate thing entirely including on the forums, so I don't even have to think about it or interact with PVPers whatsoever. Not forcing pve changes because of pvp was a big step in that direction, but now it seems like they are trying to force pvp again with the warfront stuff.

Warfronts.Are.PVE.

Nothing forced about it, you can do all PVE content in BFA without fighting players.

- - - Updated - - -

Most people are just not interested in PVP, and especially World PVP. No matter how good or bad it is.

PVE can be hard but it's learnable, masterable through repetition. PVP is always of volatile nature, you are never guaranteed anything, and you compete directly with other people. And whether you are better than those people or not results in you winning or losing. At the same time, you doing 90% dps on a boss and another guy doing 95% dps on the boss doesn't make you lose as long as you down it.

People in this thread are mentioning some mmorpgs with great pvp...I have no expertise in this area, but what I know is that all other mmorpgs have already died, or are currently dying, so apparently there is just no demand for pvp.

Grouping all those who want to WPVP in some way is a good idea though. There is nothing wrong with providing what a group of people wants to them, if it can be done with a relatively low effort

Also, this guy is laying down truth.

ArcheAge is an MMORPG with forced PVP from x level, where you can kill your own faction by going Pirate or some shit.
Where's ArcheAge now in terms of success in the West? Not sure if it performs better in Asia. I enjoyed the game very much, but the constant threat even from players of my own faction, drew me away.

[SirCowdog]

I'm going to preface this with a 'wat' and a 'why' and bring in a quote from the front page here.


So, right. Why do people avoid PvP, exactly? It couldn't be the fact that PvP in this game can be intoxicating without the other party even trying to be toxic. This lack of awareness is almost fucking legendary, honestly. The idea that they don't know after a decade of PvP servers, /pvp toggle and shoehorning WPvP into almost every expansion why people tend to avoid PvP is fucking laughable.
Of course some players do not like PvP. I honestly fail to see how they don't know, but it's because it involves A) Fighting against a player (which has more skills, health, mobility than any sort of mob, AI or not) B) Taking time away from what they were already doing in the open world (they act like there suddenly isn't enough to do, again.) and C) The lack of reward for actually successfully engaging and killing another player is just astonishingly bad for anyone not looking to get a quick dose of dopamine and adrenaline.

They couldn't be less aware if they were a turtle inside it's shell inside a box inside a lead crate at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

B-but! Gusy! GUYS!!!! BLIZZARD always listens to feedback! They dun know cause u aren't constructive enuf!!1 11R!!1!


Seriously, that statement about them not knowing why players don't like PVP is the most damning evidence I've seen yet. What a trainwreck.....

[Kyriani]

I avoid pvp these days because:

a) By nature I am more of a cooperative person than a competitive one. I like seeing everyone get what they want rather than having "winners" and "losers".

b) The game has changed a lot over the years. Gameplay isn't as simple as it once was to me (purely subjective I know).

c) I'm older. PvP is stressful I and don't handle stress as well as I used to, nor am I as nimble as I once was.

I'm not interested in being "challenged" in games anymore, just entertained. I do not find pvp entertaining.