Permanent Doomguard/Infernal gone in BfA -- Thoughts?

[Amnaught]

Grimoire of Supremacy is apparently not going to be a thing anymore. This makes me sad. Such sadness in my heart. I literally rolled my warlock in Mists of Pandaria the second I found out it was added, as a goblin because how fucking cool it would be to have a massive infernal pet alongside a goblin warlock. And I've kept that talent since I hit 90, it's a really nice part of the character in my opinion. And then I finished the green fire quest during Warlords and just, wow, how visually impressive it was in combination with that. And *then*, in Legion, the destruction artifact has a proc that lets me temporarily summon a bunch of smaller infernals all at once?! Seriously, my warlock feels *so* powerful right now, and it's really sad to learn that not only am I losing that epic multi-infernal proc, but also the permanent one I've had for like four years. I don't feel like I'm leveling up, I feel like I'm leveling down. Does anyone else share my opinion, or am I just an odd one out?

[Kurve1776]

Well I for one would like to see doomguards be scary again. Remember when we had to have multiple people summon it? and it would kill someone? and that someone happened to be the warlock? good times.

[yoma]

Grimoire of Supremacy is apparently not going to be a thing anymore. This makes me sad. Such sadness in my heart. I literally rolled my warlock in Mists of Pandaria the second I found out it was added, as a goblin because how fucking cool it would be to have a massive infernal pet alongside a goblin warlock. And I've kept that talent since I hit 90, it's a really nice part of the character in my opinion. And then I finished the green fire quest during Warlords and just, wow, how visually impressive it was in combination with that. And *then*, in Legion, the destruction artifact has a proc that lets me temporarily summon a bunch of smaller infernals all at once?! Seriously, my warlock feels *so* powerful right now, and it's really sad to learn that not only am I losing that epic multi-infernal proc, but also the permanent one I've had for like four years. I don't feel like I'm leveling up, I feel like I'm leveling down. Does anyone else share my opinion, or am I just an odd one out?

And right there is your problem. The talent is a no-brainer, OP must-have. Nothing interesting about that. On top of that, it completely eliminates demon choice/utility. Coulda saved that wipe with a well-placed succubus seduction? LOLNOPE, Doomguard DOOMBOLT DPSSSS!!1!!1!

It was time for a change, and I look forward to it in BfA.

[elaina]

So are all the upgraded pets just gone then too (shivarra, observer, etc)? That's pretty shitty.

[A Chozo]

And right there is your problem. The talent is a no-brainer, OP must-have. Nothing interesting about that. On top of that, it completely eliminates demon choice/utility. Coulda saved that wipe with a well-placed succubus seduction? LOLNOPE, Doomguard DOOMBOLT DPSSSS!!1!!1!

This is the worst.

"You didn't interrupt!" said the Warlock, while her Infernal talked dirty to the boss.
"Don't you have a felhunter to help too?" said me, nowadays a Priest.
"It's not her job to interrupt!" said the Defense Committee.

I mean, sure, other players in the group can do the job, but a Warlock's pet should be a sensible choice in a raid. This would be cool, and I think this is the fantasy - otherwise your pets would be locked by spec.

[yoma]

So are all the upgraded pets just gone then too (shivarra, observer, etc)? That's pretty shitty.

What are you talking about? They've been gone all of Legion in terms of the talent being discussed. They can still be accessed via glyphs though, but I haven't heard if those glyphs are carrying over into BfA.

[Ithekro]

Demo Locks and have access to all the demons, randomly, up to and including some former raid bosses.

I miss that my demons don't talk much anymore. My imp pretty much says nothing these days. He use to talk back all the time.

[Traveler Voltin]

*deletes warlock*

[Biotec]

And right there is your problem. The talent is a no-brainer, OP must-have. Nothing interesting about that. On top of that, it completely eliminates demon choice/utility. Coulda saved that wipe with a well-placed succubus seduction? LOLNOPE, Doomguard DOOMBOLT DPSSSS!!1!!1!

It was time for a change, and I look forward to it in BfA.

Couldn't he have just fear that enemy as well?

Also the Doomguard has a root and an interupt. The problem is the Doomguard just has way more utility and damage than a succubus in pretty much every situation.

[elaina]

What are you talking about? They've been gone all of Legion in terms of the talent being discussed. They can still be accessed via glyphs though, but I haven't heard if those glyphs are carrying over into BfA.

Haven't been using supremacy this expansion on my lock, lol. My bad. It was the go-to in wod

[Meanshield]

Well, looking at it objectively, leveling with Infernal in Legion was WAY TOO GOOD. Also, the VoidWalker seems to have been buffed in both threat and damage making it really good.
I was questioning how to level as destro but after having tested it on Alpha, those questions were laid to rest. You dont miss the GoSup Infernal as much due to VoidWalker being much better now.
Another issue is also that once you started getting to that mid-tier, late-tier expansion part, the stats were so big and GoSup was always going to be superior to the other talents by quite a margin. That is gone now, and the new talents, atleast for destro are more interesting.

Affliction still has silly sustain with selfheal so that's not a factor to whine about lack of GoSup, and Demonology has a constant of 3+ imps up and a Felguard that is almost superior to VoidWalker in some ways, and thats just being passive - add onto that HoGuldan uses you'll have so many pets your overall survival wont be a factor.

Fact is, Legion gave many classes WAY TOO MUCH GOOD SHIT, and now they're peeling some of it away it'll feel lacking, but stop jumping the gun.

[yoma]

Haven't been using supremacy this expansion on my lock, lol. My bad. It was the go-to in wod

It's still the go-to, I'm sorry to say haha. You may have been doing it wrong for quite sometime now

[Gurluas]

This is just sad. Why does BfA feel like such a big downgrade?
I want my character to become stronger, better, not weaker.

[yoma]

Couldn't he have just fear that enemy as well?

Also the Doomguard has a root and an interupt. The problem is the Doomguard just has way more utility and damage than a succubus in pretty much every situation.

Exactly. I'd be fine with Doomguard/Inrernal still being powerful CDs like they used to be, but they shouldn't be permanent end-all, be-all choices like they are now.

Oh, and Fear generally causes more problems than it solves haha.

[GreenJesus]

I thought it was better to keep them more as cooldowns and be able to use your other pets as actives.

[elaina]

I thought it was better to keep them more as cooldowns and be able to use your other pets as actives.

Same. Not gonna lie though I fell out of love with warlock since they nuked demo in 7.0

[Master Guns]

Change is good. The talent was a cookie cutter band talent.

[Qck]

This is just sad. Why does BfA feel like such a big downgrade?
I want my character to become stronger, better, not weaker.

The removal of artifacts and legendaries has led to some classes just feeling like we're back in Legion pre-patch, only this time we don't pick up a weapon with new abilities and traits to round out the rotation.

In that regard Warlock's have actually come off pretty well, at the very least you have new talents and visuals to play with, but in general I agree. Most specs are just a watered down version of what they were in Legion.

[Ithekro]

Voidwalkers have been pretty stable as leveling tanks since the end of TBC/pre-patch Wrath. They were a bit overtuned at the start of Wrath with certain talents making the more or less unkillable a almost impossible to pull threat from, but even in Legion it is difficult to pull threat off them, and it takes either a large number of mobs or a very powerful elite or rare to kill a voidwalker. I would guess they changed this a little in BfA, but I imagine it won't be that much different unless Blizzard has changed how threat works again, or made threat a worry for warlocks again.

[Lucreta]

Voidwalkers have been pretty stable as leveling tanks since the end of TBC/pre-patch Wrath. They were a bit overtuned at the start of Wrath with certain talents making the more or less unkillable a almost impossible to pull threat from, but even in Legion it is difficult to pull threat off them, and it takes either a large number of mobs or a very powerful elite or rare to kill a voidwalker. I would guess they changed this a little in BfA, but I imagine it won't be that much different unless Blizzard has changed how threat works again, or made threat a worry for warlocks again.

I'm not sure if you've leveled a warlock this expansion or not since the scaling was implemented and please if I was doing something wrong I'd like to know, but when I was leveling mine just a few weeks ago I was having massive troubles keeping my voidwalker alive against most mobs. There were places in some of the Vanilla zones, Dragonblight, and a few of the MoP zones that were absolutely shredding my Voidwalker if I pulled more than a couple of them at a time. He held threat just fine that's for sure, but in some cases even against regular enemies I was supposed to fight through for a quest he would die within a couple seconds of pulling two or three of them so I would be forced to fight one at a time lest he get demolished. This was in full heirloom items and up to date blues from dungeons/quests so it's not like I was undergeared. At best as affliction I could get some dots off and just keep the heal on the void going to keep him alive for just a little bit.