"Raid encounters that require a specific class will only show up in Mythic raids."

[SirCowdog]

I haven't fully listened to the entire 2 hour interview yet, so I'm only going off the shorthand note. But WTF does this mean? Encounter that REQUIRE a specific class? That sounds bad. Can someone clarify before we all lose our minds about this?

[dlld]

A lethal mechanic countered by an ability found only on one class or even one specc?

[DrMcNinja]

Examples given were Priests in BRF (Mind Control) and DK's grip on Aggramar. Basically, niche abilities.

I think it's fine. Usually mythic guilds have at least one of each class on backup or in their main team.
It gets more tedious when you're just a small time Heroic guild and you have to sort HC Aggramar without DKs.

[SirCowdog]

Examples given were Priests in BRF (Mind Control) and DK's grip on Aggramar. Basically, niche abilities.

I think it's fine. Usually mythic guilds have at least one of each class on backup or in their main team.
It gets more tedious when you're just a small time Heroic guild and you have to sort HC Aggramar without DKs.

It's one thing if it makes the fight a little easier. It's another thing entirely if the encounter can't be completed without a specific class/spec. That's why I think it sounds like a terrible idea.

Unless it's something of a broad category of abilities, like cleansing/decursing, that a whole range of classes can do. If it's one specific class, that's just terrible.

[Jastall]

Examples given were Priests in BRF (Mind Control) and DK's grip on Aggramar. Basically, niche abilities.

I think it's fine. Usually mythic guilds have at least one of each class on backup or in their main team.
It gets more tedious when you're just a small time Heroic guild and you have to sort HC Aggramar without DKs.

And I think that's kind of stupid.

I'm fine with mechanics that can be performed by a limited selection of classes, IE tanking the Nightorb on Gul'dan. Among 20 players, having either a Mage or Warlock is a given, and it is one mechanic among many. Shoe-horning a Blood DK in your team composition and having much of the encounter's difficulty coming from them correctly mass-gripping is bad, both for the blood DK who has tons of pressure put on them and the rest of the raid whose skills don't matter that much.

[SirCowdog]

And I think that's kind of stupid.

I'm fine with mechanics that can be performed by a limited selection of classes, IE tanking the Nightorb on Gul'dan. Among 20 players, having either a Mage or Warlock is a given, and it is one mechanic among many. Shoe-horning a Blood DK in your team composition and having much of the encounter's difficulty coming from them correctly mass-gripping is bad, both for the blood DK who has tons of pressure put on them and the rest of the raid whose skills don't matter that much.

Exactly! Thank you for articulating it better than I could.

[Khallid]

I haven't fully listened to the entire 2 hour interview yet, so I'm only going off the shorthand note. But WTF does this mean? Encounter that REQUIRE a specific class? That sounds bad. Can someone clarify before we all lose our minds about this?

I don't know about earlier expansions very much, but there was a mythic boss in BRF (during WoD) that required mind controlling an add to hit another add to remove an immunity. You could not kill that boss on mythic without a priest. You can lose your mind about it if you don't like the concept, but it's not a new thing.

[Leyre]

as long as it not a mc, you can prolly just fill in with rogues

[SirCowdog]

I don't know about earlier expansions very much, but there was a mythic boss in BRF (during WoD) that required mind controlling an add to hit another add to remove an immunity. You could not kill that boss on mythic without a priest. You can lose your mind about it if you don't like the concept, but it's not a new thing.

"Because it's been done like that before" doesn't change that it's a bad design. :/

[Socialhealer]

more mind controlling/control undead.

warlock tanking, or mage/hunters/rogues/pala immunity soaking because shit we've not had enough of that non stop for the last 3 expansions.

everyone else your class has no real utility, please reroll something more FotM for mythic.

[Tradu]

It's one thing if it makes the fight a little easier. It's another thing entirely if the encounter can't be completed without a specific class/spec. That's why I think it sounds like a terrible idea.

Unless it's something of a broad category of abilities, like cleansing/decursing, that a whole range of classes can do. If it's one specific class, that's just terrible.

The way I see it, requiring a specific class isn't a big deal. Requiring a specific spec, especially if it's a tank/healer spec, is something I'd rather not see again. That said, I'd rather have mechanics work with at least a few classes, not just one(and preferably not the same utility every single time, like what they've been doing with Mass Grip/Death Grip which is easily the most common required/massive reduction in difficulty ability in mythic raids)

[Video Games]

It means this is the 3rd time they've said this and only one boss in wod used this idea.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think they should put abilities on bosses this expansion that can only be countered by a class yet to be released. That way only the really cool kids get to kill it instead of those that just have more time on their hands to pound them out.

[Khallid]

"Because it's been done like that before" doesn't change that it's a bad design. :/

My point is: it's not gamechanging. I can't lose my mind about something that already exists.

I can see the arguments on both sides, sure forcing you to get a specific class is bad in principle, but the type of "required" class in that example is quite insignificant, so why do you even care? A mythic raid has to have 20 people. If your raid is made out of 20 druids you're doing it wrong. Priests were overpowered during WoD so not having one was already bad, which made that particular requirement on that boss mostly meaningless; any competent group would recruit one or switch someobody.

I can see it done wrong, sure. I think you are just afraid of them fucking it up too hard.

[Better]

It's mythic. Deal with it. If you don't want to deal with that, then keep to heroic and lower. It's really that simple.

This is such a bad argument because it could be applied to literally any change ever made.

"We're making all Mythic fights last 1 hour each, and have single mistake raid wipe mechanics throughout."

"Mythic raid encounters will now crash half your raid's computers at random."

It's just a blanket hand wave that doesn't address any issues you may have with a change you dislike.

[SirCowdog]

My point is: it's not gamechanging. I can't lose my mind about something that already exists.

I can see the arguments on both sides, sure forcing you to get a specific class is bad in principle, but the type of "required" class in that example is quite insignificant, so why do you even care? A mythic raid has to have 20 people. If your raid is made out of 20 druids you're doing it wrong. Priests were overpowered during WoD so not having one was already bad, which made that particular requirement on that boss mostly meaningless; any competent group would recruit one or switch someobody.

I can see it done wrong, sure. I think you are just afraid of them fucking it up too hard.

I care because I want WoW to get better, and not just repeate bad design choices.

It's not so much that a raid will consist of 20 druids, but it could VERY easily involve a raid without the ONE class needed.

Also, no one is "losing their mind" about this. It's a pretty straight forward criticism of a questionable design choice. Classes should be be brought because their player is good, not because a gimmick requires them to participate.

[hulkgor]

I haven't fully listened to the entire 2 hour interview yet, so I'm only going off the shorthand note. But WTF does this mean? Encounter that REQUIRE a specific class? That sounds bad. Can someone clarify before we all lose our minds about this?

Blast Furnace in Mythic Blackrock Citadel? Required Mind Control from priests. Or some previous fights where Mage's Spell Steal was needed for a certain mechanic.

Not that hard to understand, and it's actually good when you have a fight where your class is essential and has a particular role. Instead of generic heal\tank\dd throughout the entire expansion. Criticizing this is just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking, with no merit whatsoever. Again, it's MYTHIC RAIDING only.

Not like your random casual guild not having a Shadow Priest for the first boss on normal difficulty will hinder their progress.

[Emerald Archer]

It's not so much that a raid will consist of 20 druids, but it could VERY easily involve a raid without the ONE class needed.

Firstly, they've said this multiple times in the past, idk why you'd "lose your mind" over something we've known for 3-4+ years.

Secondly, they don't WANT you to be missing one class in a 20 man roster. They want a variety, and class buffs are pushing that too. Every mythic raid is going to want one of each class. It will just direct peoples recruitment towards a class they don't currently have. This should only be an issue with potentially Monk and DH. Can't think of another class a guild wouldn't strongly try to have one of each.

Thirdly, their class requiring mechanics will most likely go onto common classes. Or ones you could safely expect to have like with Blast Furnace/Gul'dan/Aggramar. So if you're missing an uncommon class like Monk or DH, It's not likely you see a requirement pop up for one of them. If you're missing another, well that's more questionable then, even if not for a required mechanic, you want one of those for sure.

Fourthly, Aggramar was a terrible example of this, it shouldn't require a spec, let alone heavily promote 2 of that spec. Gul'dan and Blast Furnace are better examples of this. Aggramar was a really bad design and shouldn't be repeated. If it's ever going to require a spec, it needs to be a 2/3 specs sort of a deal. Like "Priest healing spec" or "Warrior dps specs" Or a fairly easy boss where say a healing priest can go spriest and be absolutely useless and have the boss be easy. OR have 2 specs from different classes work.

Last of all, again, class variety is good. Classes should be brought because the player is good, but if you're running 2 BDKs, standard healing comp, and then like 5 mages 5 rogue 5 hunters, there's a clear problem. There's nothing wrong with requiring all the common classes. It's mythic raiding, you should build your comp with that in mind.

[clevin]

I haven't fully listened to the entire 2 hour interview yet, so I'm only going off the shorthand note. But WTF does this mean? Encounter that REQUIRE a specific class? That sounds bad. Can someone clarify before we all lose our minds about this?

This was stated when they fixed Mythic at 20 vs letting it float.

What they mean is that they won't do a mechanic that requires an ability which only one class has in any non-mythic encounter beycase you can only ensure that a raid has a specific class in mythic.

in heroic, you could be raiding with 10 or 11. There are 12 classes, so that means you might not have the one class needed to overcome a mechanic.

Now, they should say spec vs class... but eh.

[Alvito]

It's one thing if it makes the fight a little easier. It's another thing entirely if the encounter can't be completed without a specific class/spec. That's why I think it sounds like a terrible idea.

Unless it's something of a broad category of abilities, like cleansing/decursing, that a whole range of classes can do. If it's one specific class, that's just terrible.

Raiding has been like that in certain cases for years. They are just saying now it will be limited to mythic only.