Mythic loot tables

[NatePsy]

So you want a repeatable dungeon to have the same gear as a locked instance? Think about that. You don't want equality. You want M+ to be better for gearing than Mythic Raids.

I want Mythic+ to be as they originally fucking quoted it "Alternative to Mythic raiding" going forward into BFA, it sure as fuck doesn't feel like that anymore.

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Why it gives a reason to push your self to do mythic raids. This may push more people into trying the most difficult content and learn how to be better.

Well what if you want to play with your guild of friends that consists of 6+ people with a further 6-7 being people you recruited and as a result cannot do Mythic because 20man cap? I went from Mythic raiding to Heroic because the environment wasn't as fun as it is with people you know and get along with greatly. Not to mention being on a realm where there's 12+ guilds already Mythic progging and a further 20+ that have already cleared 11/11H just like yourself. Recruiting isn't easy on a server that's well progged. So what we're expected all 6 of us to buy transfers? How is that sensible or okay?

Mythic+ was supposed to be created with people like us in mind that are competent players but just cannot get the manpower necessary to do Mythic, let alone a full 20man raid full of competent players.

[Magnagarde]

I want Mythic+ to be as they originally fucking quoted it "Alternative to Mythic raiding" going forward into BFA, it sure as fuck doesn't feel like that anymore.

It is still an alternative. I'm pretty sure they'll tune it so you don't need the most powerful mythic pieces of gear to do mythic plus. The highest levels that are doable and their pushing will obviously be doable with mythic gear only, but then again, that is how things stand in Legion anyway; mythic raiders performing the best in M+ due to their gear and capability of adapting to a challenge that is thrown at them through teamwork. You need the highest of ilvl for your BiS sets, the BiS trinkets, BiS artifact traits and not to mention BiS legendaries that are extremely situational and affix-dependant.

If you want to be the best of the best when it comes to M+, then mythic raiding will be necessary to complement your desire, just how things stand right now. In the same way, M+ complements mythic raiding(ie autoattack ring for fury warriors in CoS, drape from Upper Kara for healers).

[NatePsy]

It is still an alternative. I'm pretty sure they'll tune it so you don't need the most powerful mythic pieces of gear to do mythic plus. The highest levels that are doable and their pushing will obviously be doable with mythic gear only, but then again, that is how things stand in Legion anyway; mythic raiders performing the best in M+ due to their gear and capability of adapting to a challenge that is thrown at them through teamwork. You need the highest of ilvl for your BiS sets, the BiS trinkets, BiS artifact traits and not to mention BiS legendaries that are extremely situational and affix-dependant.

If you want to be the best of the best when it comes to M+, then mythic raiding will be necessary to complement your desire, just how things stand right now. In the same way, M+ complements mythic raiding(ie autoattack ring for fury warriors in CoS, drape from Upper Kara for healers).

I push high keys and I don't Mythic raid, I just feel as though the current reward system is not lucrative at all past 15+

[Magnagarde]

I push high keys and I don't Mythic raid, I just feel as though the current reward system is not lucrative at all past 15+

Indeed it isn't, which is why I'm having a hard imagining myself pushing keys without mythic gear. It just isn't viable right now. However, M+ is still an alternative to mythic raiding as it provides a bigger challenge than the dungeons otherwise would be and represent an endless timesink, but one that doesn't give you as good rewards as mythic raiding.

The reason why it is like this is simple; mythic raiding would no longer be done to obtain the best gear because you would have endlessly repeatable content available through M+ which would give you equipment of the same or better quality than mythic raiding.

[Orcmeal]

It is still an alternative. I'm pretty sure they'll tune it so you don't need the most powerful mythic pieces of gear to do mythic plus. The highest levels that are doable will obviously be doable with mythic gear, but then again, that is how things stand in Legion anyway; mythic raiders performing the best in M+ due to their gear and capability of adapting to a challenge that is thrown at them through teamwork.

If you want to be the best of the best when it comes to M+, then mythic raiding will be necessary to complement your desire, just how things stand right now. In the same way, M+ complements mythic raiding(ie autoattack ring for fury warriors in CoS, drape from Upper Kara for healers).

How does it make sense doing a totally different type of content make sense to progress in it? As in I have to do mythic raids to push high lvl keys. I play with a grp of 6 friends. Most guilds out there dont have spots for us for starters. As well as us not having the time to have 2nd jobs of running a guild. So what are we supposed to do buy transfers and join a mythic raid guild each time we hit a wall of gear check when it comes to high lvl m+? How is that fair? How is it fair hiding specific azerite gear/ components behind a mythic raid difficulty and behind a loot master which you are at the mercy of. Lets not forget that azerute gear is supposed to replace leggos and tier pieces. Did you need to raid mythic to get either of those in Legion?

[NatePsy]

Indeed it isn't, which is why I'm having a hard imagining myself pushing keys without mythic gear. It just isn't viable right now. However, M+ is still an alternative to mythic raiding as it provides a bigger challenge than the dungeons otherwise would be and represent an endless timesink, but one that doesn't give you as good rewards as mythic raiding.

The reason why it is like this is simple; mythic raiding would no longer be done to obtain the best gear because you would have endlessly repeatable content available through M+ which would give you equipment of the same or better quality than mythic raiding.

That's just it though, not all itemisation/stat budgeting is covered on some of the items from M+ whereas raids have the perfectly statted items for particular classes/specs, they both play off of eachother, both have pro's con's, trinkets more desired, jewellery with a higher secondary over another etc.

Also have to remember that the one distinct advantage Mythic raids have over Mythic+ is that you can target loot more easily with a coin on each boss, weekly chest is a random piece of gear spread across 100s of items obtainable in Mythic dungeons. You're gambling way more than you are with a coin being used on trying to get gear that has a 1 in 4 chance of being awarded to you WITH bad luck protections in place on that boss if you're unlucky weeks prior.

[Worgand]

That's just it though, not all itemisation/stat budgeting is covered on some of the items from M+ whereas raids have the perfectly statted items for particular classes/specs, they both play off of eachother, both have pro's con's, trinkets more desired, jewellery with a higher secondary over another etc.

Also have to remember that the one distinct advantage Mythic raids have over Mythic+ is that you can target loot more easily with a coin on each boss, weekly chest is a random piece of gear spread across 100s of items obtainable in Mythic dungeons. You're gambling way more than you are with a coin being used on trying to get gear that has a 1 in 4 chance of being awarded to you WITH bad luck protections in place on that boss if you're unlucky weeks prior.

Right, but did you stop to think about the reverse? For some classes there's absolute trash itemization in Antorus and so they have to look to M+ to fill in the gap, especially for rings/trinkets the later of which has historically been extremely important. Further, being able to better target bosses with a coin is a silly argument. You're coining that boss hoping that you get the one item you need out of however many they drop, I was coining for the trinket off dogs for 5 weeks in a row, got the neck 3 times, and AP the other two. Further with raiding you get the initial kill for that week, and a chance at leftovers someone else might not want. After that you get 3 extra chances a week and then you're done. You can do more of the same M+ dungeon in one afternoon then you can the same boss of a raid in an entire week.

Also, raiding has the random mythic chest as well from missions, I have literally never gotten an upgrade from it, and haven't gotten an upgrade from the M+ chest in 10 weeks. The mythic raid takes longer to form, has more working parts to screw up, and is much more limiting then M+ especially with the bad raid design of legion, where instead of interesting mechanics its "stand here or everyone dies".

TL;DR Both Mythic Raiding and Mythic + have their pros and cons, M+, provided you can find people with the key (not hard at all) can chain run the same dungeon all day, which is getting you more AP, more gold, and more chances at loot then your maximum allowed mythic raid.

[munkeyinorbit]

Think it's kind of a slap in the face to those pushing 20+ M+ keys, where's the incentive to pushing them? There's no additional iLvl past 15 and there are no plans to change that according to these dev interviews and they haven't given us any indication they'll add achievements, pets or mounts and it seems like they'll still share the same gear models as a standard Mythic.

"Alternative to raiding" my ass. It's unbelievable that they keep trying to push raiding as the end all be all (Raid or die mentality from WoD) and I used to raid Mythic from EN to ToS and stopped for Antorus so it's not as if I'm some LFR scrub whining about it.

But that is exactly what you are. Us casual raiders have to set entry requirements into our raid at stupid levels because of all of the entitled bads out there that are Mythic + players. Last raid night we were short and decided to add a couple of dps for our heroic farm. Lo and behold the scrubs running around in 950+ gear that died every single fight using the LFR strats that they think is enough to get by. I am not even talking about hard mechanics. Standing in the big green line. Getting feared for 30 sec cause they don't stack. Running across the bridge through all of the lasers and mines. Deciding that the RL is talking out their ass and not moving into white circles. You name it, it was done. I would prefer if there was a lockout between mythic + and raiding. Do a 8? No normal raid. Do a 12? No heroic for you. Mythic + has been the best thing for the community as a whole but it has been cancer for casual guilds.

[Orcmeal]

Right, but did you stop to think about the reverse? For some classes there's absolute trash itemization in Antorus and so they have to look to M+ to fill in the gap, especially for rings/trinkets the later of which has historically been extremely important. Further, being able to better target bosses with a coin is a silly argument. You're coining that boss hoping that you get the one item you need out of however many they drop, I was coining for the trinket off dogs for 5 weeks in a row, got the neck 3 times, and AP the other two. Further with raiding you get the initial kill for that week, and a chance at leftovers someone else might not want. After that you get 3 extra chances a week and then you're done. You can do more of the same M+ dungeon in one afternoon then you can the same boss of a raid in an entire week.

Also, raiding has the random mythic chest as well from missions, I have literally never gotten an upgrade from it, and haven't gotten an upgrade from the M+ chest in 10 weeks. The mythic raid takes longer to form, has more working parts to screw up, and is much more limiting then M+ especially with the bad raid design of legion, where instead of interesting mechanics its "stand here or everyone dies".

TL;DR Both Mythic Raiding and Mythic + have their pros and cons, M+, provided you can find people with the key (not hard at all) can chain run the same dungeon all day, which is getting you more AP, more gold, and more chances at loot then your maximum allowed mythic raid.

If you read all his posts then you'd know that we are talking about rewards for high keys. Like mythic +20's which is on par in terms of difficulty if not harder at times due to being aware not just at boss fights, but also trash mechanics. Not to mention in mythic raids you are covered by 19 other players. And you cant chain run +20's cuz you need to get your key up to 20 and not to mention when queing to join a grp for a +20 its super hard to even with high score.

[NatePsy]

But that is exactly what you are. Us casual raiders have to set entry requirements into our raid at stupid levels because of all of the entitled bads out there that are Mythic + players. Last raid night we were short and decided to add a couple of dps for our heroic farm. Lo and behold the scrubs running around in 950+ gear that died every single fight using the LFR strats that they think is enough to get by. I am not even talking about hard mechanics. Standing in the big green line. Getting feared for 30 sec cause they don't stack. Running across the bridge through all of the lasers and mines. Deciding that the RL is talking out their ass and not moving into white circles. You name it, it was done. I would prefer if there was a lockout between mythic + and raiding. Do a 8? No normal raid. Do a 12? No heroic for you. Mythic + has been the best thing for the community as a whole but it has been cancer for casual guilds.

Dunno how a 950 geared player failing on mechanics is comparable to a 970+ pushing very high M+ keys but alright. Do you even read what I've been talking about?

[Deleted]

Conversely, why do you need that level of gear if you aren't mythic raiding?

Because there are other aspects of WoW where gear matters? If mythic raiding gave tons higher ilvl than mythic+, guess who would have an edge in PVP since everything is based off your total ilvl? Also it would affect the pugging world of mythic+ and inflate the ilvl "required" to join higher mythic+ keys.

[NatePsy]

Because there are other aspects of WoW where gear matters? If mythic raiding gave tons higher ilvl than mythic+, guess who would have an edge in PVP since everything is based off your total ilvl? Also it would affect the pugging world of mythic+ and inflate the ilvl "required" to join higher mythic+ keys.

Already does inflate in M+ that's why I only ever do high keys with friends.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Because there are other aspects of WoW where gear matters? If mythic raiding gave tons higher ilvl than mythic+, guess who would have an edge in PVP since everything is based off your total ilvl? Also it would affect the pugging world of mythic+ and inflate the ilvl "required" to join higher mythic+ keys.

If you inflate the ilvl you can get through mythic+, pug ilvl requirements will increase accordingly, so increasing M+ gear impacts that group negatively.

PvP I won't claim to have any knowledge about, never really got into it. Does PvP at the appropriate level not reward mythic level gear? Are all the best PvPers wearing Mythic raid gear?

[Multitorix Davlen]

I want Mythic+ to be as they originally fucking quoted it "Alternative to Mythic raiding" going forward into BFA, it sure as fuck doesn't feel like that anymore.

It wasn't touted as "alternative to mythic raiding". it was touted as a "parallel gearing option". if it was an alternative, you would receive equal ilvl loot to a mythic raid boss per kill. The only time you receive an equal ilvl piece of loot is from the weekly order hall chest, otherwise the loot is capped out at 940, which is actually less than heroic raid. And it has always been like this since the introduction of mythic+, where the loot from the dungeon chests are significantly less than what drops from the raid, only the weekly chest containing something of equal ilvl. Personally I'm fine with how it is now, it does the job its advertised for but I can recognize it could do more for the people who want to make it an actual alternative.

I push high keys and I don't Mythic raid, I just feel as though the current reward system is not lucrative at all past 15+

Right here is why its not an 'alternative' in my eyes. When you push the highest difficulty content you are expected, at least i expect, to be rewarded with the best quality stuff. But you do not receive the rewards deserving of your accomplishments, you're rewarded something from the middle difficulty when it comes to comparable content and the lack of good rewards for content done makes it not an alternative.

[Deleted]

Why it gives a reason to push your self to do mythic raids. This may push more people into trying the most difficult content and learn how to be better. This would have to work on a system where you lock yourself to a certain +level that week and can only finish this + level once that week so once you do your +15 you have to do something higher next time you try, if you finish that you can try a higher one again. It can not be hard farmable if you want to have access to gear that is on par to raiding.

The most difficult part of mythic raiding is having 20 people from the same server and faction show up on the same day and time. Heroic has been so incredibly easy this expansion that our guild felt like we had to try and enter mythic because we had nothing else to do, but even after trying to work with other guilds in similar situations, we still didn't have 20+ people on any form of reliable basis. I'm done with mythic, and won't strive to try it again, and if heroic is as easy in BfA as it was in Legion, then I'm probably done with raiding as a whole.

As NatePShycotic mentioned, Blizzard has called m+ an alternative to mythic raiding and it really should reflect that in its rewards. Given MDI's popularity I think it's fair to say that m+ is far more successful than mythic raiding will ever be.

[NatePsy]

It wasn't touted as "alternative to mythic raiding". it was touted as a "parallel gearing option". if it was an alternative, you would receive equal ilvl loot to a mythic raid boss per kill. The only time you receive an equal ilvl piece of loot is from the weekly order hall chest, otherwise the loot is capped out at 940, which is actually less than heroic raid. And it has always been like this since the introduction of mythic+, where the loot from the dungeon chests are significantly less than what drops from the raid, only the weekly chest containing something of equal ilvl. Personally I'm fine with how it is now, it does the job its advertised for but I can recognize it could do more for the people who want to make it an actual alternative.

It would be nice if the azerite items they're talking about would also drop on a 18+ onwards, alongside Mythic raiding to make it fair so that we're not shovelled in to having to do Mythic raiding just for the desired Azerite items.

[Multitorix Davlen]

It would be nice if the azerite items they're talking about would also drop on a 18+ onwards, alongside Mythic raiding to make it fair so that we're not shovelled in to having to do Mythic raiding just for the desired Azerite items.

It'd actually make it an alternative if that was the case, but again they dont want M+ to be an alternative, but a parallel gearing option. I'm all for people getting great loot for pushing high keys, and honestly the only real reason they're pushing for unique azerite gear in raids is to boost raid participation and not M+ participation. I guess blizzard is fine with the activity in M+ but want more raiding participation.

[NatePsy]

It'd actually make it an alternative if that was the case, but again they dont want M+ to be an alternative, but a parallel gearing option. I'm all for people getting great loot for pushing high keys, and honestly the only real reason they're pushing for unique azerite gear in raids is to boost raid participation and not M+ participation. I guess blizzard is fine with the activity in M+ but want more raiding participation.

With the raid setup being 20-man, it's pretty difficult for Heroic guilds to want to step into Mythic raiding unfortunately. It always comes down to numbers. There's a tonne of Heroic 11/11 Guilds who aren't branching into Mythic and it's almost always because of the numbers game. It's difficult to get 20 players to come raid and players that play competently, then you have the chance of them not being reliable and suddenly stop turning up, then you have to start recruiting more. It's always an uphill battle for those guilds that are sitting at 14-15 competent members total so they just stick to M+ because there's a difficulty getting 20.

That 20-man requirement is what discourages most, honestly.

[SirBeef]

I want Mythic+ to be as they originally fucking quoted it "Alternative to Mythic raiding" going forward into BFA, it sure as fuck doesn't feel like that anymore.

It never really was supposed to be that. It was never intended to be a replacement for mythic raiding. It was an alternative to raiding in general for those who preferred small group content or spamming dungeons. You were never going to get the best gear or even raiding gear from mythic+, just gear in similar quality, i.e. ilvl only.

[deviltoist]

I want the best.
I don't want to do anything.