Gun crime increasing in London

[Ghostpanther]

Firearms are legal. If you wish to carry a gun to public events you need a license. AFAIK unless it's job specific it's illegal to walk the street with a gun

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It was a handgun

My friend owns a rifle

Gang violence is usually always handguns

This is true even here in the US. Not just gang violence, but gun crimes in general are by far done with handguns. So easy to conceal. Thanks for responding.

[smokii]

Don't make stupid threads.

Nobody on the side of your opposition is ever going to take "criminals don't obey the law" as a valid argument.

If you don't understand why they don't find that a valid argument then.......... you have no point starting or holding debates like these.

You're just pissing people off with stupidity at that point.

well said. saved me having to type it out.

[Deleted]

This is true even here in the US. Not just gang violence, but gun crimes in general are by far done with handguns. So easy to conceal. Thanks for responding.

I don't deny majority of US gun related deaths are likely handguns and gang related. I believe the rifle argument only really pops up regarding mass shootings. I don't agree with banning guns in America but do agree regulations need looking into more

[Dhrizzle]

Well, not that I want to derail the thread, but it is not hard to get a license to carry a firearm in the public? I mean, rifles for hunting and such, while capable, are not that practical for self defense.

Shotgun and firearm licenses allow for hunting and pest control and put fairly heavy restrictions on calibre and capacity. Handguns are effectively banned nationwide except in very rare circumstances with permission from the government.

[Dystemper]

If you knew anything about criminology and the effect of population density on crime rate, you wouldn't be asking this question. I've given you enough to work with. You also might want to check the stats on gun crime. You also might be able to figure out that if you're going to buy a gun to either kill someone with it or as a straw purchaser, you probably don't give a shit about the law. The POS seller still will though, because they're not motivated by your desire to kill. Your arguments are weak, and so is your knowledge.

If you're having a hard time figuring it out: when you account for population density (population density is directly proportional [and if you're too big of a moron to know what "directly proportional" means, just stop talking to me] to crime rate, including the gun crime rate), the gun crime rate for states with stricter gun control is much lower than loose gun control.

So even with a per capita, Indiana should have a higher gun violence rate since guns are so easy to get there. Same with other states. But that is not the case. And straw purchasing us a crime. So tell me where are all the gangs going in Indiana to buy all these guns?

[Ripster42]

So even with a per capita, Indiana should have a higher gun violence rate since guns are so easy to get there. Same with other states. But that is not the case. And straw purchasing us a crime. So tell me where are all the gangs going in Indiana to buy all these guns?

If you're going to cherry pick examples, lets do montana and new york. Instead of using your left toe to think, look at the general trend.

[Svifnymr]

Um, not really, since they are legal to own in the UK.

Some are legal to own.

I don't know much about carry laws but the poster presupposed than guns are not legal at all when in fact they are. They are not legal for self defence use however.

Either way shotguns and some semi-autos are legally available and would be pretty effective for defence

It'd be interesting to contrast the sources of crime guns, given the most common guns are not legal to own/ import. Great Britain does have the advantage of being an island nation, but the borders are probably so porous as to make that a lot less useful in modern society. Certainly the IRA had no problem getting guns back in Ye Ancient Days, and I'm sure there's plenty of other illegal contraband flowing into the UK.

For the USA, ATF has almost all the info available on their website, does the UK have a similar system?

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If you're going to cherry pick examples, lets do montana and new york. Instead of using your left toe to think, look at the general trend.

It's worth noting that NY STATE is not as harsh as NYC, a lot of the rural areas have hunting cultures and such. More amusing is comparing staunchly anti-gun Massachusets with "live free or die" New Hampshire. You can also compare Vermont/ NH to Canadian cities as north as them, and then compare the Great Lakes area. You can also tag on the "drug routes" maps to see that connection, and of course urban poverty charts and stuff.

Basically, pack poor people into cities and pipe in the drugs and crime and violence escalates, oddly enough. Meth-trailer-parks tend to sprawl out more and get patrolled even less, so no one cares about them.

[Noah37]

Homicides in the US 4.88/100k, homicides in the UK 0.88/100k. The next closest "first world" nation to the United States is Canada at 1.68/100k. Not saying full scale removal of firearms is the solution, but lets not ignore facts overall. The US has more relaxed firearm laws, and a higher homicide rate in general. How can we correct this? Not 100% sure. Banning firearms, or adding longer wait periods won't really stop people from getting guns illegally. The likely best solution is trying to find ways to track the illegal firearms/arresting the criminals faster, since a lot of the crime is likely repeat offenders.

[Ripster42]

Basically, pack poor people into cities and pipe in the drugs and crime and violence escalates, oddly enough. Meth-trailer-parks tend to sprawl out more and get patrolled even less, so no one cares about them.

This is why I mentioned the need to understand basic criminology. Exactly because living space is compact in cities you're going to have more crime even if you have the same amount of criminals because the opportunity for the criminals to commit crimes goes up (a similar thing applies to crimes committed with guns, the more guns around, the more opportunity to commit gun crime). There are more victims available in your area, there's more anonymity in the faceless mass. This increased crime rate is then often compounded by increased patrols in high crime areas which, unsurprisingly enough, increases the likelihood that police will catch crimes that otherwise wouldn't have been reported.

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Banning firearms, or adding longer wait periods won't really stop people from getting guns illegally.

Even most guns that are obtained illegally start from legal sources in the US. A ban probably would work logistically, as it has in many places, but is a non-starter politically. I don't think a ban is needed though, to drastically reduce gun crime.

[zenkai]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-39578500

But they have gun control in England... Don't the criminals know that they aren't allowed to have guns?

"There are complex social reasons why more young people are carrying knives and this cannot be solved by the police alone, we must work with communities to help combat knife crime."

Wow their politicians are smarter than ours, instead of blaming complex social issues, they blame the tool.

[Allybeboba]

Kek...
People are still spewing US statistics in UK thread. Even after I tried not once but twice to get people discuss something else. This is exactly why we have a gun control mega thread.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Control-Thread
You guys aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by spouting stats on a video gaming forum. Much less, one that is left leaning. People already have their mindset on it.

Ever to OT...
Knife crime was up by 24% in London.

OFP

[LaserChild9]

Holy shit, that was A+ mental gymnastics there.

I am saying that mental disease is the problem, simple as that.

Further restricting the access to guns will not solve this problem unless it involves better screening for mental disease and, again, that will only stop people from killing other with guns, instead of alternative methods.

It's not mental gymnastics, lets take another look at your quote:

Problem is that, as terrorists have proven time and time again, you don't need guns to mass kill people.

You then follow up your comment about what terrorists have done time and time again with:

If you ban guns those kids will just set fire to the school, use home made bombs or use cars to overrun people (and I am pretty sure those methods would actually be more deadly if well executed).

So you point out the methods terrorists use, and then pointout that your kids will do that instead.

If you actually care about about that problem, you have to the root cause, which appears to be mental health (and is probably not only that).

Same thing for gun crime, it is not a simple issue and it will not have a simple solution.

And of course, you finish with what basically amounts to "don't look at the guns, look at the mental health care system", anything to get the attention away from your precious guns. I haven't edited your quote, you can go back and check it, you actually said all those things and connected them yourself.

What you are saying quite literally boils down to "Our kids are terrorists, guns or no guns they will kill people coz mental health", you can't even consider that you cant drive a car down a school hallway, the average kid can't even make their own lunch let alone a bomb and you can out run a fire, anyone can pull a trigger and you cannot outrun a bullet.

[Deleted]

Kek...
People are still spewing US statistics in UK thread. Even after I tried not once but twice to get people discuss something else. This is exactly why we have a gun control mega thread.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Control-Thread
You guys aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by spouting stats on a video gaming forum. Much less, one that is left leaning. People already have their mindset on it.

Ever to OT...
Knife crime was up by 24% in London.

OFP

Then the OP shouldn't have started with gun control

[jazen]

Should completely remove all gun ownership restrictions in the US. Should massively tax and regulate ammunition/parts to make it. Simple work around of the 2nd amendment.

[Deleted]

"There are complex social reasons why more young people are carrying knives and this cannot be solved by the police alone, we must work with communities to help combat knife crime."

Wow their politicians are smarter than ours, instead of blaming complex social issues, they blame the tool.

Its true though, its not the knives fault, its the gang/drug culture in poor communities that makes young people feel like they need to carry knives. Tackle that problem and the knife problem will solve itself.

Like you said, the politicians are actually on the right track, i just hope it leads somewhere. Higher police numbers on the streets will do little to solve this issue, unless they plan on having police patrolling half the council estates through the night in London. Higher police numbers on the street would still be a good thing, but i hardly think its going to solve this problem alone.

[Deleted]

Its true though, its not the knives fault, its the gang/drug culture in poor communities that makes young people feel like they need to carry knives. Tackle that problem and the knife problem will solve itself.

Like you said, the politicians are actually on the right track, i just hope it leads somewhere. Higher police numbers on the streets will do little to solve this issue, unless they plan on having police patrolling half the council estates through the night in London. Higher police numbers on the street would still be a good thing, but i hardly think its going to solve this problem alone.

Someone linked it the other day, will see if I can find the article, but Scotland actually had a fairly radical approach to tackle their violent youth problems and had great success with it

Edit: there we go, https://www.theguardian.com/membersh...g-young-people

[Deleted]

Someone linked it the other day, will see if I can find the article, but Scotland actually had a fairly radical approach to tackle their violent youth problems and had great success with it

Edit: there we go, https://www.theguardian.com/membersh...g-young-people

That was a good read, thanks! I hope they try to employ something similar here. Specifically the part about offering people a way out. Most people in that culture are born into it, and know nothing else, struggle to leave, and then bring their own kids into it. It's a horrible cycle that gets worse and worse. Its good to see Scotland had success, really hope the authorities here attempt a similar approach.

[Knolan]

It's not mental gymnastics, lets take another look at your quote:



You then follow up your comment about what terrorists have done time and time again with:



So you point out the methods terrorists use, and then pointout that your kids will do that instead.



And of course, you finish with what basically amounts to "don't look at the guns, look at the mental health care system", anything to get the attention away from your precious guns. I haven't edited your quote, you can go back and check it, you actually said all those things and connected them yourself.

What you are saying quite literally boils down to "Our kids are terrorists, guns or no guns they will kill people coz mental health", you can't even consider that you cant drive a car down a school hallway, the average kid can't even make their own lunch let alone a bomb and you can out run a fire, anyone can pull a trigger and you cannot outrun a bullet.

You have got to be trolling me now...

First, there are kids with mental issues, you add some bulling to that and you get a mass murder.

Right now they (kids with mental issues) are using guns because guns are available to them, if you remove the guns, they will resort to other methods (which we know exist and work because terrorists recently used them in countries were guns are hard to come by).

It is like treating the symptoms instead of the disease, it will not work.

I can't put it any more simply than that, if you disagree, great, but stop twisting my opinion as if I am saying kids are terrorists and point me where it doesn't make sense to you so I can either back my position or agree to disagree.

Also, I am not an American, they are not my precious guns, I don't own a gun and I live in a country were not even the police carries guns. Whether I believe if people should or not have guns is irrelevant to the problem being discussed as I believe that guns or no guns will not solve the issue.

[Mormolyce]

You guys aren’t going to change anyone’s mind by spouting stats on a video gaming forum. Much less, one that is left leaning. People already have their mindset on it.

Ahaha, he thinks this forum is "left-leaning".

I'm sure facts and statistics will do little to change some people's minds. If you can call those minds.

[Allybeboba]

Ahaha, he thinks this forum is "left-leaning".


I'm sure facts and statistics will do little to change some people's minds. If you can call those minds.

Like I keep telling you people, I suppose it is all a matter of perspective.
To someone from the Sahara, Texas Summers wouldn’t be considered very hot at all. However, if someone were to come from Siberia they would have think it was sweltering. Even a native born Texan thinks it’s hot.
All a matter of perspective...

Then the OP shouldn't have started with gun control

Note how I said “US” in a UK thread my friend. People just love to talk about the US!! They can’t get enough of it! Like moths to a flame.

OFP