CEO pay to workers pay. Now Officially Reported!

[Zan15]

If you don't like it, don't work there.

Well that is a very simplistic view that solves nothing.

Do you think other CEO's in the same industry are not making the same out of scale salaries/compensation?

Oh let me quit Aetna and go to Anthem or CIGNA...oh wait....they also make 500x....let me go to humana....oh wait......maybe united....shit he is at 2000x.....

When their wages have increased 350x over the last 10-20 years verses a stagnant ZERO for the working class under them, do you think this is a problem? The impact of stagnant wages is huge to this country as much as the accumulating wealth into the few.

Biggest problem of all, debt would not be as big of an issue if wage growth actual happened to the 90%.

[Unholyground]

Right, correct. That's why I tried to be careful and say: when comparing to states that have high income taxes.

There are states where you pay no income taxes, and instead you pay a higher sales tax. For example, Texas has a 10% sales tax, no income tax. However, we have a federal medicare and social security tax on top of income tax. Canada has an analogous social security tax, but not the former medicare tax; Canada's health care costs are rolled into their income taxes (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

So, we have a 6.2% social security tax rate (5.65% in Canada) and a 1.45% medicare tax that everyone has to pay. So even if you are in Texas, you still have to pay federal income tax + 7.65% on top of that.

So that's 2.00%*** taxes that Canadians don't pay.

But when you compare a high income tax state Maryland (where I live) to Ontario, after you include federal + state income taxes, medicare, medicaid, social security taxes, it comes out roughly same as Ontario, with me paying roughly $1,100 more but I would get healthcare coverage. Considering I pay more than $3,000/year in insurance premiums, it's a net gain.

***After $200,000 income, that number goes up by 0.9% increments

Interesting for sure. I am in New Brunswick and it is pretty similar to Ontario except that our cost of living is dirt cheap, you can get a 2 story house for a 150k.

[Zan15]

Don't worry, most people wont.

Actually most people work at corporations. So you are quite wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

The boss should totally make more money than those under him/her. Thousand times more though? Now that is just silly. They should definitely earn more per hour which would translate into even more due to working way more than the normal worker. Which is fair. They've to lead, invest, make decisions and take responsibility.

lol even when they "take responsibility" and fail they reap huge rewards.

Shit even in bankruptcy these people are paid millions upon millions in severance, retention and bonuses.......

Fuck up in your job and you get fired with 0 severance and they fighting not to pay your unemployment.

[Scathbais]

..Boy and these people needed the lion share of a tax break too!

I am sure this rule will not last that much longer, but enjoy it while we can


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...lth-inequality

In 2018, corporate America giving up a data point it would probably rather keep under wraps: How much CEOs make in comparison to their employees.

For the first time, a new Securities and Exchange Commission rule mandated under the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial reform requires publicly traded companies to disclose what their their CEOs are compensated in comparison with their employees. In public filings, companies have to disclose their “pay ratios,” or the CEO’s compensation divided by the median employee’s. The numbers are pretty jarring.


Margo Georgiadis, the CEO of toymaker Mattel — the company behind Barbie, Hot Wheels, and Fisher-Price — makes 4,987 times more than the company’s median employee; or, when accounting for a one-time sign-on bonus, 1,527 times more. Georgiadis brought in $31.3 million in 2017, her first year on the job, while the median Mattel employee, globally, made $6,271. (Seventy-eight percent of Mattel’s total workforce is located outside the US, where pay standards are lower.)

Greg Creed, the CEO of Yum! Brands, which owns KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell, made 1,358 more than the median employee. His 2017 compensation: $12.4 million. The median employee’s pay, including full-time and part-time: $9,111.


The CEO of Kohl’s makes 1,264 more than its workers. The pay ratio of cigarette company Philip Morris is 990-to-1; at oil refiner Marathon Petroleum it’s 935-to-1.

Why would anyone include part-time pay in the analysis? Probably should calculate per hour pay because as CEO, they most likely works 60-80 hours per week, much more than the 40-hour/week folks.

Also, who cares? CEO is the boss. He/She makes strategic decisions that can make or break companies. The average employee is a replaceable commodity.

[zenkai]

Well that is a very simplistic view that solves nothing.

Do you think other CEO's in the same industry are not making the same out of scale salaries/compensation?

Oh let me quit Aetna and go to Anthem or CIGNA...oh wait....they also make 500x....let me go to humana....oh wait......maybe united....shit he is at 2000x.....

When their wages have increased 350x over the last 10-20 years verses a stagnant ZERO for the working class under them, do you think this is a problem? The impact of stagnant wages is huge to this country as much as the accumulating wealth into the few.

Biggest problem of all, debt would not be as big of an issue if wage growth actual happened to the 90%.

Sounds like more of a problem of overcharging customers instead of underpaying workers.

[StayTuned]

for a second i thought this was serious. nice post

Sometimes you have CEOs in SME who are actually worth their money. They generate income by negotiating deals with clients who want exclusive contact with higher management instead of having to talk to a salesman or account manager. They're spearheading the company into new endeavors and serve as role models for employees during though times. In addition, they make sure that the performance of the employees keeps being positive by enabling the necessary structures, such as having performance talks and paying fair wages for fair work. There are many more reasons, but just to name a few.

In all honesty, some CEOs really deserve being millionaires for what they've built.

Then you have the fuckheads who mostly sit in big corporate firms, who have been voted into position or got elected because they knew the right people and did enough favor making to land them that spot. Usually they fall way behind their promises, never act in favor of the employee but rather the stakeholders and leave the firm prematurely because they've fucked up and still cash in on their compensation and maybe even a bonus for ... whatever.

Or the "external consultants" who were formerly politicians and suddenly are on some energy company's high management payroll. What the fuck.

In the latter cases, one can only be cynic until indifference sets in because we're completely unable to change that.

[exochaft]

Also, who cares? CEO is the boss. He/She makes strategic decisions that can make or break companies. The average employee is a replaceable commodity.

Exactly. It's actually very hard hard to find someone qualified to be a CEO of a large corporation, and the amount of time (and stress) that person needs to put into being the CEO is massive compared to your run-of-the-mill worker. The reason the pay is so high is because you probably couldn't find a competent CEO for anything less, and retention is a big deal because of such a limited amount of CEO-worthy people. I doubt most people could be CEO of a small, start-up business and succeed, as the job is not as easy as people think. If you think your average minimum wage person could be CEO of a multi-national corporation, you're crazy.

[Deleted]

Exactly. It's actually very hard hard to find someone qualified to be a CEO of a large corporation, and the amount of time (and stress) that person needs to put into being the CEO is massive compared to your run-of-the-mill worker. The reason the pay is so high is because you probably couldn't find a competent CEO for anything less, and retention is a big deal because of such a limited amount of CEO-worthy people. I doubt most people could be CEO of a small, start-up business and succeed, as the job is not as easy as people think. If you think your average minimum wage person could be CEO of a multi-national corporation, you're crazy.

Yeah a lot of people here will have little respect for them because they are the opposite in character. Im a procrastinating slacker but I do respect the most conscientious out of us.

[Easo]

Ehh, the comments make me sad. Do you really think the situation where the gap keeps increasing at rapid pace, while the Joe Schmoe has to fight for every cent, which does not keep up with inflation is a correct one, with sustainable, bright future?
Golden parachutes are a thing. Who usually suffers, if company fails? CEO (and I mean at corporation, not in 50 people company where the tittle of CEO is quite pretentious thing)? Other C levels? Board? How often? Or the workforce instead, the Joe Schmoes...?, who have to fight for the unpaid wages and cobbling together the shattered life plans.
P.S.
Then again, there are people who fear public knowledge of wages like a plague and are happy to fire anyone who says his publicly, so I am not surprised.

Also, who cares? CEO is the boss. He/She makes strategic decisions that can make or break companies. The average employee is a replaceable commodity.

You, as the average Joe Schmoe should, you, the replacable commodity. You should care.

[Deleted]

Then again, there are people who fear public knowledge of wages like a plague and are happy to fire anyone who says his publicly, so I am not surprised.

Wait is that a thing?

[Deleted]

You, as the average Joe Schmoe should, you, the replacable commodity. You should care.

We are either choosing to be Joe Schmoe or we're too young to be CEOs.

[Deleted]

You forgot the bit that they worked hardest on - being squeezed out of the right vagina, being sent to the right rich kid schools and getting their first job with a little help from their influential daddy.

Lazy poor people just don't have the discipline to accomplish something like that.

Weird, I always had the impression that you were a sheltered upperclass kid yourself.

[Zan15]

Sounds like more of a problem of overcharging customers instead of underpaying workers.

So your solution and thought process is?? To solve for zero wage growth for most workers and huge 1% wage growth, is Negative or Zero inflation on goods?

How is this over charging customers? They have to raise the prices to pay for those extreme salaries at the top.

of course you probably don't have a problem with it so your solution is to ignore it.

[Eveningforest]

We are either choosing to be Joe Schmoe or we're too young to be CEOs.

Ah, you're one of those temporarily embarrassed millionaires. And a Scottish one at that. That's hilarious.

[Zan15]

Why would anyone include part-time pay in the analysis? Probably should calculate per hour pay because as CEO, they most likely works 60-80 hours per week, much more than the 40-hour/week folks.

Also, who cares? CEO is the boss. He/She makes strategic decisions that can make or break companies. The average employee is a replaceable commodity.

when 90 million workers are below the poverty line and collecting welfare benefits paid for by your taxes....you should care.

many workers also work over 40 hours a week and are not paid overtime, just like CEO's. They are not unique.

What has changed in the last 20 years that they should so dramatically have their wages increased vs the average worker?
You saying that the average worker is that much less important now than 20 years ago but CEO's are that much more?

[Deleted]

Ah, you're one of those temporarily embarrassed millionaires. And a Scottish one at that. That's hilarious.

No. I just know that the richest people in the world are the richest because they are smart and work hard. only a minority of the elite are corrupt. Most of them are better human beings than us.

[Pickynerd]

Actually most people work at corporations. So you are quite wrong.

Uh yeah, it's really hard not to work for a corporation these days. People that have stayed are looking for ways to get out, and the rotating front door isn't helping.

- - - Updated - - -

when 90 million workers are below the poverty line and collecting welfare benefits paid for by your taxes....you should care.

many workers also work over 40 hours a week and are not paid overtime, just like CEO's. They are not unique.

What has changed in the last 20 years that they should so dramatically have their wages increased vs the average worker?
You saying that the average worker is that much less important now than 20 years ago but CEO's are that much more?

At least we agree on something.

[Scathbais]

Ehh, the comments make me sad. Do you really think the situation where the gap keeps increasing at rapid pace, while the Joe Schmoe has to fight for every cent, which does not keep up with inflation is a correct one, with sustainable, bright future?
Golden parachutes are a thing. Who usually suffers, if company fails? CEO (and I mean at corporation, not in 50 people company where the tittle of CEO is quite pretentious thing)? Other C levels? Board? How often? Or the workforce instead, the Joe Schmoes...?, who have to fight for the unpaid wages and cobbling together the shattered life plans.
P.S.
Then again, there are people who fear public knowledge of wages like a plague and are happy to fire anyone who says his publicly, so I am not surprised.



You, as the average Joe Schmoe should, you, the replacable commodity. You should care.

Sorry friend, I am not your typical mmo-c poster like you are. I am over 40 [edit: almost 50], have a very successful career in finance, I am well educated, have a great wife, two successful children, and who happens to love video games. I check out and post on MMO-C during lunch because video games are my hobby. That and trolling ignorant, greedy children who think that they are entitled to my hard earned dollars.

[Louisa Bannon]

Seeing a lot of "who cares? comments here...

Well, let's try and set this straight then:

1. Investors should care. There's no reason the highest level of executives should receive ridiculous sums of money in compensation that is unrelated to performance. If large sums are being generated along with a longer view to overall corporate profitability, bonus might be in order. But obviously, most profits should be returned to investors and not just become the padded salaries of the top brass. Earlier I referenced "The Economist" and the fact is that the periodical often encourages people to put their money elsewhere other than the U.S. because of this exact pay gap problem being so unfriendly to investors.

2. The other problem is clearly worker underpayment. It's pretty well known that Walmart tells its employees how to qualify for services from the federal and state governments. I mean, that sort of business model is absurd and simply means that every taxpayer is "invested" in Walmart because they are helping Walmart maintain an underpaid labor pool. The solution is to alter social services laws and regulation to disqualify people that are employed in schemes like these. Workers should be adequately paid and receive a basic level of additional benefits to include healthcare, retirement and a decent amount of vacation pay.

3. Pump and dump. There's so many versions of this now. People need to be on the lookout for how CEO decisions are going to effect the longer term outlook for a company. When I state this I am sort of thinking about crap like what Martin Shkreli pulled. Most of the other pharma companies are doing very similar things. It's not good the for the longer term outlook of any of these companies and its particularly bad for anyone who requires the drugs being "pumped." Obviously, there may be a taxpayer angle too, inasmuch as such costs may be passed along to health services paid by government.

So yeah, I think people should care and for a plethora of reasons. When I look at this shit I see an economy in its death throes. We don't make anything any longer, we just consume. So all that's left is to bleed out what's left of the capital in most places.

That's not good business.

[I Push Buttons]

Sounds like more of a problem of overcharging customers instead of underpaying workers.

False.

The $50 in labor and $250 in parts of an iPhone is definitely worth the $1000 price tag.