Our Final Stand - Death Knights in BFA

[josh1985]

Don't you remember how awful 2H Frost was as a spec? Nobody played it, all the way through Wrath, because it was nowhere near on par with Unholy. The only reason we played Frost at all was in 3.3 when some clever bastards worked out how to spec our talents and stack haste in order to make DW Frost viable.

Iconic? No. 2H Frost has never been viable, not since the birth of the DK. That's why I was never selected to earn Shadowmourne in Wrath.

Personally I think they should focus on making DW Frost fun to play again.

Source: Playing Frost for 9 years.

As for allied races being DK's, I can't see it ever happening. Not after the whining Blizzard received in Cataclysm when they allowed Worgen and Goblins to become Death Knights. They'd need to dump development time into making it work within the lore. I'd love to see the DK starting experience updated as much as anybody else but it seems to me they there are more important things for them to focus their time on. Maybe when/if Northrend gets a revamp?

I specifically remember not getting Shadowmourne for the very same reason. I was Frost and had no intention of playing Unholy. Our 3rd Shadowmourne went to our main tank's offset.

Frost works the best as DW IMO due to faster game play. While some people don't want to accept that, its true. I get that 2H was a thing, i don't think it worked at well DW frost as how the spec was designed. IF you want to use a 2H, play Unholy.

I think the a reason why they went with DW for Frost was due to the fact they had to balance the Killing Machine Proc for both DW and 2H and couldn't work it out evenly (at least my thought of it) Plus you lose the benefit of having the razorice debuff AND the Unholy Strength buff.

[sister]

Every expansion the DK experience gets worse and worse. Just reroll while you still can.

[SirCowdog]

Tauren are by far the lesser of the 2 in popularity, clearly they're not that awesome.

Blizz also said Zandalari can't be paladins in BFA. It's actually gonna be 5 to 2 in favor of alliance when Dark Irons become playable.

Only the best players can manage the raw awesomness of holy cows. It's not surprising that some players just can't handle it.


Seriously though, quote me that Blizzard post where they said it? There's a pretty strong theory that by the time Zandalari are a playable allied race, the story will have explained the return of Zandalari paladins.

[Selah]

DKs are in fine place. All 3 specs feel unique and interesting. They all stand out and perform well, and they always have. You have a fair amount of races available to play, 10 out of 15 really isn't bad. Compared to 6/15 Paladins, 5/15 Druids, 8/15 Shamans, 2/15 DH, 11/15 Warlock, they're doing just fine. Keep in mind, Allied races are just subraces of existing races you already have access to and all of them have DK friendly counter parts.

Then there's the lore support DKs have received. Their lore and quests are always great and memorable. The DK class hall quests were fantastic with an amazing conclusion, obtaining the new class mount in Legion was one of the best for class mount quests. They're a very iconic class that has bleed into all sorts of other fantasy worlds and games. Not to mention, their starting experience is still one of the best in-game lore moments to this day.

As far as the actual lore that has been restricting them, truthfully there's only been two periods where the LK has been raising DKs. In the beginning of WotLK when all we had really running around was the vanilla through Cata races and during Legion when Bolvar used the shards of Frostmourne to reforge the blade. The big difference between Bolvar and Arthas is that Bolvar hasn't gone and actively raised a massive army of DKs in the fashion Arthas did. So for someone to be raised as a DK during Bolvar's reign is extremely rare. Mind you, that the Death Lord only rose the four horsemen and the dragon with the blessing of Bolvar. Neither the Death Lord nor Bolvar have been actively raising DKs for the majority of Legion. Then you have the fact that the Blades of the Fallen prince are now corrupted by the essence of Sargeras, as of right now it's impossible to tell if we can use them to raise more DKs.

So the choices you are left with are the races that the Arthas had access to during WotLK. LF Draenei obviously weren't even known about until we went to Argus. As far as we can tell, the LK never took his campaign to the Broken Isles so there's no reason to believe that any race unique to the Broken Isles would have been raised (Nightborne, and Highmountain). VE only came into existence very recently, after the campaign on Argus was over and we knew about the presence of the LF. There would be very little to no reason for the Death Lord or Bolvar to be raising them, not to mention the chances of their corpses being stumbled upon by either of them is extremely low due to the extremely low populace of Void Elves as a whole. Of course then there's the Mag'har who don't even reside on Azeroth and them traveling to Azeroth atm is extremely rare.

Then you have the Dark Iron, Kul Tiran Humans, and Zandalari. Given the sea faring nature of both the Kul Tirans and Zandalari trolls, I would argue that Arthas would have had several opportunities to raise them. I suspect the populations of both KT humans and Zandalari DKs to be extremely low but still enough to warrant giving players access to them.

The Dark Irons are the ones I feel like could go either way. Dark Iron has always existed and been in the world. The question is though, how many are there, how often do they leave their mountain, and how likely would it be for Arthas to run into them? From what we can tell, they're not sea faring nor are they like the Bronzebeards who actively go out and seek adventure and places to explore. They seem to be content hiding in their mountain and not go out often.

Then there's the Pandaren. I don't think there is a strong case for Pandaren DKs. Prior to and during WotLK (when Arthas was raising DKs), iirc we saw no Pandaren in the game. I think the only one we really saw was Chen during W3. You do have the Wandering Isle which was full of Pandaren actively swimming around the world but even then the Pandaren there didn't leave the Wandering Isle until after the events of Cata and the Alliance and Horde crash landed on the island. The chances of Shen-zin Su actually swimming far enough north to even be close to Northrend or the more northern parts of EK and Kalimdor seems extremely unlikely because he still is a turtle and probably has preference for warm waters. Gravewalker Gie is an oddity for sure, but not enough to warrant Pandaren DKs atm. Gie very easily could have been someone aspiring to be like Chen and wandered into the scourge, or drunkely fell off the Wandering Isle when it was a bit further north and washed up on the shores of Northrend.

[Seramore]

Death Knights don't need to be added to more races, nor will they with the possible exception of the Zandalari and Humans. Let it go.

2H Frost also doesn't need to return and you're honestly a very vocal minority.

Post it in as many forums as possible. Drop the same post in the official forums, reddit, twitter, here, and anywhere else you think Blizzard MIGHT have a chance of seeing.

Except Blizzard most likely has seen the constant posts, it's just not worth responding to.

These forums tend to be more active/populated because they are free while the official wow forums require subscription so they usually seem dead

Is this something that you've been waiting to say, or something? This has nothing to do with somebody posting a message to the dev team on the non-official forums.

[Talvindius]

Only the best players can manage the raw awesomness of holy cows. It's not surprising that some players just can't handle it.


Seriously though, quote me that Blizzard post where they said it? There's a pretty strong theory that by the time Zandalari are a playable allied race, the story will have explained the return of Zandalari paladins.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=282240/p...adins-spoilers

It's been several weeks since it was announced. You should google it yourself next time.

[SirCowdog]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=282240/p...adins-spoilers

It's been several weeks since it was announced. You should google it yourself next time.

I google it and I see it. You link it and everyone that reads the thread sees it.

Besides which...that's just some quest text from the alpha. There's some counter arguments about the setting of some of the zones and quests that STRONGLY suggest Zul'jin taking over as a loa and uniting all the trolls. There's all kinds of spoiler talk about BfA quests and lore in this video, and the guy makes a REALLY strong case.

Does that suggest troll paladins? I don't know. Maybe? Maybe not. All I know is that there's a LOT of time between alpha and future content releases that could change t he situation. Given Blizzard's propensity for changing their mind, it's entirely possible it could happen.

Video is roughly 20 minutes long, but WELL worth a watch if you don't mind spoilers.

[Deleted]

So, two expansions in a row now my DK ends up eing my de-facto main.

So, here is what i think:

First, the races. It's just the price to pay for a hero class. Can't be all roses. DK's have a choice of every main race. They are not lacking in choice, but it does make them incompatible with the allied races' systems. Ce la vie. Unless a new starter area/story gets created, and i don't it's worth the resources, the DK's we got are Arthas' DK's. If they the allied races ever start at 60 and are existant during that era we might see DK as an option. Until then... no can do.
It is hardly a big problem though. All the new races are retextures of the main ones.

As for 2h frost... i don't see the point. Unholy is the 2h spec. Frost being dual wield makes the two dps specs distinct.


What i'd like to see is some changes to the talent tree's. Some of the artifact abilities and or legedary effects baked in. Last i checked, there were no changes. I have been thinking that they were just saving them for last, but it may be they are completely satisfied with them...

[Seramore]

I google it and I see it. You link it and everyone that reads the thread sees it.

Besides which...that's just some quest text from the alpha. There's some counter arguments about the setting of some of the zones and quests that STRONGLY suggest Zul'jin taking over as a loa and uniting all the trolls. There's all kinds of spoiler talk about BfA quests and lore in this video, and the guy makes a REALLY strong case.

Does that suggest troll paladins? I don't know. Maybe? Maybe not. All I know is that there's a LOT of time between alpha and future content releases that could change t he situation. Given Blizzard's propensity for changing their mind, it's entirely possible it could happen.

Video is roughly 20 minutes long, but WELL worth a watch if you don't mind spoilers.

Stop talking about irrelevant shit that's unrelated to DKs. The last thing this forum needs is another fucking discussion about Zandalari Paladins.

As for 2h frost... i don't see the point. Unholy is the 2h spec. Frost being dual wield makes the two dps specs distinct.

Thank you. I don't understand why people keep asking for 2H Frost, it doesn't need to happen, even with the reasoning of "because why not!?" Whether people like it and accept it or not, dual wielding has become Frost's identity. The recent trend of incessantly asking for classes to have weapons that were abandoned from their identity years ago needs to stop.

[Accendor]

Did you post this on the official forum also? Perhaps the development team would have better chances of seeing your post there rather than on MMO-Champion. I agree about the 2hand Frost thing but otherwise I disagree. You aren't entitled to anything even if you have been playing WoW for 10 years.

mmoc forums are more closely monitored than european ofgicial forums, so...

[Raziella]

It's not so much an issue of racial diversity as of stagnation. Yeah, a ton of races are available to DKs, but none of the new ones are likely to be, and if the focus stays on Allied Races, that *is* a bit of a downer for DK players.

[Magnosh]

I love the argument: ''you can't make new races be dks because arthas is dead''

Its hilarious honestly! Keep up the joke guys

....it's not like the new LK ordered us around AND we spent our time in legion make 4 new super dks..... we assaulted the paladins class hall and almost raised Tiron as DK during the campaign.

Or this was just a dream and we can't make more dks because arthas is dead. .......wait a minute, the LK is alive. :O


I don't plan on playing Horde but even by that funny logic, zandalari have no excuse to not be Dk considering they were in Northrend during WoTLK.

[SirCowdog]

Stop talking about irrelevant shit that's unrelated to DKs. The last thing this forum needs is another fucking discussion about Zandalari Paladins.

.

Wow..so basically anyone who doesn't want to talk about the same thing as you should shut up? It's an open forum and it was a tangent that goes to evidence that Blizzard can and has changed their minds about classes and races. That's completely relevant to the discussion about DKs.

If you disagree, fine. But don't tell people to shut up just because you don't like it. Stay off the internet and off forums if you don't want to see stuff you don't like.

[msdos]

The entitlement of "DKs should be this and should wield this" is honestly amazing to me.

That's why I love Blood DK. It still basically plays the same as it always has, you're just doing less damage and you play like a tank instead of squishy. The feeling of power didn't drop off for me, since playing from Wrath, as Blood. I have a smaller toolkit, but I still feel like a Deathknight and enjoy what I'm playing. Is it difficult for other people to admit that? It seems like they want to whine.

[Raziella]

It's not "entitlement" to say, hey, I really liked the idea of Death Knights in Arthas's image... a big, slow powerhouse with a giant honking runeblade from the frozen wastes.
I mean, that's pretty much the iconic DK, and it was a bit weird to lose it.

I enjoy playing Unholy, and I like the class fantasy (if not the over-arcing lore Legion foisted on DKs) but I see the point.

[msdos]

It's not "entitlement" to say, hey, I really liked the idea of Death Knights in Arthas's image... a big, slow powerhouse with a giant honking runeblade from the frozen wastes.

You still have that image in a Deathknight, Unholy or Blood, what difference does it make what in-game spec they are? This is like getting mad about the Venom we got in Spider-Man because he wasn't the exact same thing from the comic book.

[elaina]

Frostmorne is now two weapons. So the 2nd point is irrelevant.

because DKs were reimagined as a dual wielding spec for arbitrary reasons

[Seramore]

I love the argument: ''you can't make new races be dks because arthas is dead''

Its hilarious honestly! Keep up the joke guys

....it's not like the new LK ordered us around AND we spent our time in legion make 4 new super dks..... we assaulted the paladins class hall and almost raised Tiron as DK during the campaign.

Or this was just a dream and we can't make more dks because arthas is dead. .......wait a minute, the LK is alive. :O


I don't plan on playing Horde but even by that funny logic, zandalari have no excuse to not be Dk considering they were in Northrend during WoTLK.

...and yet all of that happened before we got these races.

Wow..so basically anyone who doesn't want to talk about the same thing as you should shut up? It's an open forum and it was a tangent that goes to evidence that Blizzard can and has changed their minds about classes and races. That's completely relevant to the discussion about DKs.

Argument #679 about Zandalari Paladins is absolutely not relevant to this thread, go away.

[SirCowdog]

It's not so much an issue of racial diversity as of stagnation. Yeah, a ton of races are available to DKs, but none of the new ones are likely to be, and if the focus stays on Allied Races, that *is* a bit of a downer for DK players.

It's my hope that if Blizzard is willing to devote time and effort into adding new races and their associated stories and zones, that they'll also at some point revamp and update the DK starting area as well.

[Piplupzero]

Void elves actually make no sense. Story wise they literally didn't exist until battle for Azeroth. Zandalari and Dark Irons are the only ones that really make sense.