Poll: Legal requirement for informed parental notification before underage abortion?

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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Player Twelve View Post
    Anesthetics? Why would you need anesthetics for an abortion?
    I don't know, I'm not a medical provider.

    I know for medicinal abortions you don't, but I imagine if a surgical abortion was required for some reason anesthetics would be necessary.

    Like I said - Devil's Advocate position that family medical history could be relevant to the treatment being performed and a 16 year old girl might not have that information.
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  2. #602
    Granted, this article that I found was published in 2007, so some of these things may be subject to change, but covering minors and medical consent...
    Most nurses view obtaining consent and providing treatment as routine. But when the patient is a minor, especially an older child or adolescent, obtaining consent can be anything but routine. How can a nurse know when a minor can grant consent and when consent must come from parents or guardians?
    — RN

    As this nurse’s question indicates, obtaining consent for a patient under the age of 18 can be complex—certainly more complex than it used to be. In the past, only adults could grant informed consent, so parents and legal guardians gave consent for patients under age 18. A minor simply wasn’t seen as being capable of making an informed healthcare decision.
    Over time, this view has changed. Today, many states recognize exceptions, including emancipated minors, mature minors, minors with certain health conditions, and minors needing emergency treatment.
    The mature minor doctrine allows some decision making for adolescents who have the capacity to make decisions but who are not legally emancipated. The mature minor must demonstrate that he or she fully understands the treatment and the consequences.
    The mature minor doctrine is applied when a minor is age 16 or older and understands the medical procedure and the procedure isn’t serious.
    Based on the need to promote a healthy society and the health of the minor, a minor with certain health conditions may seek treatment without parental consent. These conditions include pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, sexual abuse, and certain mental health conditions such as alcohol or drug abuse.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    I think the parents should be calling the shots as their guardians, you can't have doctors operating on children without the parents consent, this is stupid.
    And if the parents have abused the girl? Maybe she was raped by a family member?
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  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    She goes to the police and reports it.
    Right, because victims of familial abuse always go right to the police to report it.

    Domestic violence is reported to police in 100% of cases, you heard it here first.
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  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    I think the parents should be calling the shots as their guardians, you can't have doctors operating on children without the parents consent, this is stupid.
    It rarely requires an operation these days when it comes to elective abortion. Most of the time it's done with a pill.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    Right, because victims of familial abuse always go right to the police to report it. Domestic violence is reported to police in 100% of cases, you heard it here first.
    And you think a doctor won't report it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelhander View Post
    MRA drivel.
    You're the one with a fantasy.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    When my friend had it done, which I was present for, they gave her anesthesia, and she had to be driven home. They wouldn’t release her unless she had a ride home.

    It was a local anesthesia.
    Huh, the ones I know who have had an abortion were only given painkillers like declofenac(I think it's called). No anesthesia.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Well it's their choice but I see no other solution regarding family abuse. You either report it or run away from home? I think reporting it would be the better choice. I don't see how this is relevant to basic laws about operating on a child without the parents permission. If there is some family abuse, I don't think the solution to it would be abortion.
    Most abused children do neither. They just continue to be abused until they are old enough to get out of the situation. Some never do.

    If the family abuse includes rape that results in pregnancy, and you don't see how abortion would be a viable solution there, I have no words.

    Obviously the doctor would be reporting things like this to social services and the police, or at least they should be if they aren't completely incompetent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And you think a doctor won't report it?
    Said the guy who think kids have no means to get to the doctor.
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  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    Said the guy who think kids have no means to get to the doctor.
    Nice out of context...just to think you've score yourself a point...
    Try again.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Nice out of context...just to think you've score yourself a point...
    Try again.
    You quoted me replying to a poster who said that girls being abused at home should go to the police to report it rather than go to a doctor.
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  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Well it's really the pregnant teen's call as she is the mother but when it comes to operating on a child or serious medications the guardians should definitely be involved with the decision.
    And I'm telling you for the vast majority, an operation is not necessary. A minor procedure maybe, but that is not an operation.

  12. #612
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    The way I see it, a teenager should have some agency in regards to their body and therefore the decision to abort and whether to tell their parents should be up to them. The issue is that parents are still responsible for them and therefore should retain the right to be notified, especially if they have to pay for the procedure and any possible treatments (medical or therapeutic) after the fact. I mean, if the doctor's office sent me a bill and wouldn't disclose what it was for, I'd tell them to fuck off. But then again, some parents are pieces of shit, so fuck them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    Below the age of consent? No, but the provider should be legally required to notify the parents AND social services. Ideally while the girl is in their office.

    Ideally social services first, so they can be on-site before the parents get there and cause a shitstorm.
    I can see calling social services if it's a young teen (<15), but teens fuck all the time. Calling social services just to cause a shit storm because a teenager got pregnant when you don't know the circumstances is pretty fucking stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    What is the argument for bodily autonomy trumping 'all'? I believe that the observation that this belief means you must also support prostitution is true, since prostitution would be just another example of exercising bodily autonomy.
    This is a logical fallacy. It's not illegal to have sex with whomever you want, only to get paid to do it. It's not an issue of bodily autonomy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Player Twelve View Post
    Anesthetics? Why would you need anesthetics for an abortion?
    Because it's painful?
    Last edited by Mistame; 2018-04-18 at 08:55 PM.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    Because it's painful?
    My friend likened it to bad period cramps and it was managed by painkillers.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    lol...no. Just, no.

    90% of abortions take place prior to 13 weeks (that number presumably includes non-surgical abortions as well), using a procedure that takes all of 10-15 minutes to perform. If that's "major surgery" then so is clipping off a freaking skin tag.
    It is a major surgery regardless of when the procedure is done.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Player Twelve View Post
    My friend likened it to bad period cramps and it was managed by painkillers.
    And different people handle pain differently. Someone women refuse an epidural when giving birth, others demand it. Anesthesia is often an option for abortions.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    You can take the appeals to emotion somewhere else. Fetal personhood isn't a thing, regardless of what your religious beliefs might say.

    For you to raise the child without her could be deeply damaging to the emotional development of both your daughter and grandchild. Your daughter engaged in this unresponsible conduct that you clearly disapprove of, and you allowed her to do so, accepting her responsibility onto yourself. Your grandchild would grow up being raised by their grandparents, who are (presumably) a fair bit beyond the ideal age to have a newborn in the house, not to mention a mother who is either absent or treated more as a sister. Very confusing stuff for young children.

    These wouldn't be your actions in the first place.

    As an aside, bonus points if you can quote the bible passage, chapter and verse, where abortion is condemned.
    Religious arguements mean nothing to me, and only work between those who share the same religious beliefs. I fail to c how helping to raise my grandchild is going to cause emotional damage. But I guess u would rather kill the child.

  17. #617
    I think a lot of people in this topic that think they should legally be informed of their child's decision to have an abortion are failing to realize what the consequences of enforcing such.

    If the law required doctors to inform parents before performing an abortion... many of those girls aren't going to go to a professional doctor to do it. Think about it. If the girl is scared to tell her parents, and she knows the doctor has to by law, she's going to seek out less reputable and likely far more dangerous methods of abortion.

    Many of you may not be old enough to remember this but... once upon a time, more than 1,000 women died each year from abortions that were labeled as unsafe. Many of these abortions were self-induced. Unsafe abortion practices were such a concern in the United States that nearly every large hospital had some type of “septic abortion ward” that was responsible for dealing with the complications that accompanied an incomplete abortion.

    This is why doctors should not be forced to divulge such information. As much you as a parent might want to know, if your kid is too scared to tell you, and if they can't count on a doctor's discretion, many will turn to unsafe methods of abortion to avoid telling you. You want an example?:

    In the 60s, the National Opinion Research Center found that hundreds of women were attempting to self-abort with coat hangers, knitting needles and ballpoint pens, and by swallowing toxic chemicals like bleach and laundry detergent.

    In 2005, a 16-year-old boy beat his pregnant, under-age girlfriend with a bat at her request to abort a fetus. The young couple lived in Michigan, where parental consent is required to receive an abortion.

    Is this what you want your daughter to resort to if they are too scared to tell you? No? Then respect her privacy in this matter.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2018-04-18 at 10:11 PM.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I think a lot of people in this topic that think they should legally be informed of their child's decision to have an abortion are failing to realize what the consequences of enforcing such.
    Umm..it's pretty much the law here in the US. Between Parental Consent or Parental Notification.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Umm..it's pretty much the law here in the US. Between Parental Consent or Parental Notification.
    And it's bad law imo.

    This isn't about the parents.

    It's about the child.

    If she can't feel safe and secure going to a proper doctor then she may well turn to unsafe methods as we've seen young women do in the past.

    I feel her health/life is far more important than a parents right to be informed or their right to dictate if it happens at all, because at the end of the day, if she's determined to have an abortion she will attempt whatever she can to achieve it, even if it puts her life at risk.

    women were attempting to self-abort with coat hangers, knitting needles and ballpoint pens, and by swallowing toxic chemicals like bleach and laundry detergent.
    As much as I'd like my daughter to feel comfortable telling me about getting pregnant and her desire for an abortion, I'm far more concerned about her safety. If she doesn't feel she can come to me, I at least want her to be able to go to a professional and not some back alley butcher.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2018-04-18 at 10:10 PM.

  20. #620
    If the teen is under the age of consent yes, the parents by law should be informed in my view. If the teen is at the age of consent, then I don't see why the parents should be required to know.

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