BFA wishlist

[Deleted]

Doesn't have what?

"Having a shield and a heal is not equal to having 2 blinks and it doesn't have to be. Diversity makes things interesting".
I clipped my sentence with a bad paste.

You realize I'm talking about the normal mobs, right? The quests where you are told to go kill 30 of them. You will be pulling them one by one because even pulling two is going to be (at best) hard to handle. But you haven't played SP yet so you don't know that experience.

Are you talking about WQ's? Because if you have to kill 30 of anything, they are probably imps that you can pull 5 at a time and barely need mind flay. Are you talking about leveling? Because they mostly get instagibbed by a void eruption. If you can't handle 2 normal mobs then you should get some freakin gear. A full set of heirlooms carries you until 110 then you abstain from going rambo until you finish argus and do some M0's.
"But you haven't played SP yet so you don't know that experience."
I haven't raided. I did argus in about 890 ilvl gear for a while. Yes, you can't tank an argus elite. Few dps can except those in very good gear. That doesn't mean poor shadow priests are hopeless in world content. And if you find something more difficult to kill, freakin change to discipline, that's why you are a priest with several options.




"You don't even understand how void form works so how can you argue that it's not much of an issue?"
less haste granted per void stack, insanity draining faster, mastery helping mind blast, mind flay, void bolt and void erruption, buffed damage on most spells. All these changes mean that you suffer less penalty for dropping out of void form and you will drop out of void form faster no matter what you do.


"
Again it shows that you haven't played SP. It's huge because you can't cast while moving in most cases. Moving means you will be doing almost zero damage and it means that you will be dropping out of void form even faster."
which is true of any caster except maybe affliction. Moving hurts your dps. You are a genius.



"You are right on this one. You will be benched for not doing damage, not having survivability and having almost no utility."
If you can't position your character correctly and watch dbm timers so you know when to move without a mage blink, you should try playing mage.

" Indeed it's unlikely that you will be benched just for your mobility."
yep

So you're just looking for the lesser evil? You don't actually want the game to improve?

i can see why you would say that if you simply wanted to be in a fight and be obnoxious in the process. What i actually said was that shadow priest isn't unplayable because you feel you can't take body and soul because the Method shadow priests take San'layn to help with healing. They are method, they probably know how to position themselves. If you can't position yourself and feel you are slow, bloody take body and soul. What i actually said was that one of the pros of shadow dps is that it is much more fun than balance druid, to give but an example, and i am most likely switching to priest. I wouldn't have a blink on the druid anyway in bfa. And just for the blinks i won't be switching to fire mage because i enjoy having the option to heal if one of the healers of my very casual, non world first guild, can't make it to a raid. What i actually said was that a fun spec is much more important than those 2 or 3 seconds you would win if only you would move faster.

[Ophenia]

Because they mostly get instagibbed by a void eruption.

Void Eruption is back to low damage in BfA, just so you know. 1200% of Spell Power today, 80% tomorrow (for reference, Mind Blast is 120% in BfA). Nothing will be insta-killed by Void Eruption in BfA, not even imps. Not even level 80 imps.
Plus, just in case, you still have to build your insanity before Void Erupting. And the current design is atrocious in terms of gameplay anyway.

I haven't raided. I did argus in about 890 ilvl gear for a while. Yes, you can't tank an argus elite. Few dps can except those in very good gear. That doesn't mean poor shadow priests are hopeless in world content. And if you find something more difficult to kill, freakin change to discipline, that's why you are a priest with several options.

Actually, I've gone on Argus with all my chars with a low stuff (except the DH which one well equipped), and the Druid+Warlocks were by far the easiest ones.

less haste granted per void stack, insanity draining faster, mastery helping mind blast, mind flay, void bolt and void erruption, buffed damage on most spells. All these changes mean that you suffer less penalty for dropping out of void form and you will drop out of void form faster no matter what you do.

Less penalty = still penalty. The kind of penalty you don't have with any other Ranged class.

which is true of any caster except maybe affliction. Moving hurts your dps. You are a genius.

What don't you understand ? Balance Druid has instant casts everywhere and a talent allowing you to cast while moving in your Starfall (which will probably be the go-to talent for a lot of content, as today). Affliction is even one of the spec that suffers the most from every movement as they have a lot of spells to cast too.

If you can't position your character correctly and watch dbm timers so you know when to move without a mage blink, you should try playing mage.

Seems clear to me you've never done any relevant content in your life

[Deleted]

"Having a shield and a heal is not equal to having 2 blinks and it doesn't have to be. Diversity makes things interesting". I clipped my sentence with a bad paste.

That's true. I still think that our shield is worthless except for the speed boost if you pick Body & Soul and we are loosing the heal with BFA. I really don't think that's adequate.

Are you talking about WQ's? Because if you have to kill 30 of anything, they are probably imps that you can pull 5 at a time and barely need mind flay. Are you talking about leveling? Because they mostly get instagibbed by a void eruption. If you can't handle 2 normal mobs then you should get some freakin gear.

Yes I am talking about WQs but not in the current patch but from the start of Legion. There was no void eruption AOE. With your Imp example it meant dotting every single Imp and being half dead before even the first one died. On current Endgame sure you can do WQs. Sure with item Level 900+ a shadow feels pretty OK. The experience from leveling throughout Legion is something I'd rather not have again. It took ages to build decent haste in fact shadow priest is so gear dependent that I skipped way better items several times because they had no haste.

which is true of any caster except maybe affliction. Moving hurts your dps. You are a genius.

So those die (literally) as well if they need to move? STM won't kill with BFA anymore and nobody currently plays STM because it was nerfed so hard but it's one of the things that show the lack of mobility for priests. STM does allow to cast while being on the move but I don't know how to break dance on my keyboard hard enough to get similar performance to standing still or not dying on higher stacks. Also for other classes it means an interruption but usually not a long lasting difference (less stacks => less damage => less haste => longer time to enter next void form).

If you can't position your character correctly and watch dbm timers so you know when to move without a mage blink, you should try playing mage.

There are no DBM timers on trash (M+) in most cases or for PVP.

What i actually said was that shadow priest isn't unplayable because you feel you can't take body and soul because the Method shadow priests take San'layn to help with healing.

Even if you're not Method if you play shadow priest in its current iteration you will notice various short comings. You're right that you currently can play shadow and it's going to be kind of OK and not unplayable.

I wouldn't have a blink on the druid anyway in bfa.

Yes, instead as a balance druid you could call your treants to tank for you, entangle your enemy, switch to cat form to outrun him, use displace beast to put distance between you and your enemy, use wild charge depending on form to close the gap or jump to a friendly target, heal yourself after activating a buff that makes you take 20% less damage, either stun your target for 5 seconds, mass entangle them or knock them back.

Indeed you would not need blink. In comparison as a priest you get a stun every 30 seconds (?) and about ~12 seconds of movement speed.

And just for the blinks i won't be switching to fire mage because i enjoy having the option to heal if one of the healers of my very casual, non world first guild, can't make it to a raid. What i actually said was that a fun spec is much more important than those 2 or 3 seconds you would win if only you would move faster.

It's fine if you want to play with your guild and if your guild is organized enough to do every kind of content with you that's pretty great. If it isn't you will notice short comings in various areas while not shining in any other area. If you don't mind that's OK but damn there are so many little things to make life as a shadow better while still being just an "OK" class.

[Deleted]

Heh, i guess you didn't give up after all. And it was such a lovely foot stomp then storming out of the door.

Void Eruption is back to low damage in BfA, just so you know. 1200% of Spell Power today, 80% tomorrow (for reference, Mind Blast is 120% in BfA)

Stat squish. The overall damage of these spells is increased compared to live both base damage and because they now benefit from mastery.

Nothing will be insta-killed by Void Eruption in BfA, not even imps. Not even level 80 imps.

I am sure you have done your math correctly.

Plus, just in case, you still have to build your insanity before Void Erupting.

Gasp! You have to spend a resource before using a rather big spell? No! This is a completely new development that will rock wow to its core!

the Druid+Warlocks were by far the easiest ones.

Gasp! the most op tank in legion that can pull the entire world and not die is easy on Argus? This is also complete news to me that i never heard before and certainly never did myself despite the fact that i raided with a druid! A class that has a pet also has an easy time? Double gasp!

The kind of penalty you don't have with any other Ranged class

Arcane mage. Balance druid on ST and without OI. Elementalist in ascendancy.

What don't you understand ? Balance Druid has instant casts everywhere and a talent allowing you to cast while moving in your Starfall (which will probably be the go-to talent for a lot of content, as today).

Single target, if you build your resource properly for movement, you have 2 starsurges to cast before you run out. Without OI (which lazor turkeys will lose with no hint they might be getting it back) you won't be having a starfall.

On fights with heavy movement some classes are better than others. On fights with little movement and single target, other classes are better than some. Whenever a class becomes good on single target and aoe, on heavy movement and little movement encounters, it is hit with the nerf hammer soon after.

"Affliction is even one of the spec that suffers the most from every movement as they have a lot of spells to cast too."

hah. funny.

"Seems clear to me you've never done any relevant content in your life"

It is funny that you think this is a valid argument.

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That's true. I still think that our shield is worthless except for the speed boost if you pick Body & Soul and we are loosing the heal with BFA. I really don't think that's adequate.

well, yes, in raids let's be real, you won't be casting shield except to proc body & soul if you play with it. I will grant you that.

Yes I am talking about WQs but not in the current patch but from the start of Legion.

Talking about bfa.

There was no void eruption AOE. With your Imp example it meant dotting every single Imp and being half dead before even the first one died.

They moved some numbers around during legion, yes. But we are talking about BFA and how the numbers work out so far, what are the dev's intentions, how it might work next expansion. And sure, you were half dead by the time you dotted everything and erupted but you also had shadow mend to bring you back up with one or two casts. Boomkin regrowth barely heals in world content.
AND they are changin that to mean that void eruption hits everything nearby regardless if they are dotted or not. QOL.

On current Endgame sure you can do WQs. Sure with item Level 900+ a shadow feels pretty OK. The experience from leveling throughout Legion is something I'd rather not have again. It took ages to build decent haste in fact shadow priest is so gear dependent that I skipped way better items several times because they had no haste.

yes, that's what they are trying to change in BFA. less punishing if you have to move right before you cast void torrent to extend voidform and thus your void bolt word: death don't come out of cooldown and you drop out of voidform. And you die. horribly.

So those die (literally) as well if they need to move?

still talking about BFA But since you brought it up, don't take STM if you need to move.

STM won't kill with BFA anymore and nobody currently plays STM because it was nerfed so hard but it's one of the things that show the lack of mobility for priests.

Which is yet another reason i didn't play shadow in Legion but i plan to in BFA. Not the most important reason but still.

STM does allow to cast while being on the move but I don't know how to break dance on my keyboard hard enough to get similar performance to standing still or not dying on higher stacks.

Don't let the other guy hear you say that, he will accuse you of obviously never having played relevant content.
Some classes are harder than others. It depends what you're in the mood for. Some want to see how the boss looks and roll their forehead on the keyboard (BM hunters). Others want more challenge and might even be masochists (feral druids pre rework or, yes, shadow priests)

Also for other classes it means an interruption but usually not a long lasting difference (less stacks => less damage => less haste => longer time to enter next void form).

If all classes are equally easy to play, wow will be made up of only one kind of players.

There are no DBM timers on trash (M+) in most cases or for PVP.

True. I hear shadow priests get a beating in pvp. I don't pvp so i won't comment.
True, shadow priests suffer in M+. The changes in BFA try to address that and it seems from the changes that it will definitely be an improvement. Most likely you will be able to void erupt at least every other pack. Even more often maybe. Ofc you won't have the same burst as other classes. Yes, nobody wants a sp in M+ but ferals also were unwanted outside of guild groups. I personally will not bother with shadowing in M+ and will instead disc or holy (whatever i am in the mood for)

Even if you're not Method if you play shadow priest in its current iteration you will notice various short comings. You're right that you currently can play shadow and it's going to be kind of OK and not unplayable.

Like i said, pros and cons.
It is right to ask for changes on numbers or if a mechanic is absolutely broken, unused, or thoroughly unfun. I personally think that the insanity/voidform mechanic is the most original thing that happened to dps specs. That is my personal, subjective, opinion.

Yes, instead as a balance druid you could call your treants to tank for you, entangle your enemy, switch to cat form to outrun him, use displace beast to put distance between you and your enemy, use wild charge depending on form to close the gap or jump to a friendly target, heal yourself after activating a buff that makes you take 20% less damage, either stun your target for 5 seconds, mass entangle them or knock them back.

Indeed you would not need blink. In comparison as a priest you get a stun every 30 seconds (?) and about ~12 seconds of movement speed.

I would also have a dps rotation that right now seems it's going to be more of a snooze fest than BM hunter. Maybe they pruned it in preparation for azerite armor traits, we will see closer to release.

It's fine if you want to play with your guild and if your guild is organized enough to do every kind of content with you that's pretty great. If it isn't you will notice short comings in various areas while not shining in any other area.

That's ok. That's how class balance should be. I believe in burning crusade warlocks were the absolute best DPS while shadow bolt spamming. I think there was a dps loss if you so much as used a GCD for something other than shadow bolt. Fuk that.

Another reason i picked shadow. If i can't get into pugs as shadow, i can holy or disc.

If you don't mind that's OK but damn there are so many little things to make life as a shadow better while still being just an "OK" class.

Sure. Everything can always be improved. And the azerite traits are still to be anounced.

[Deleted]

On fights with heavy movement some classes are better than others. On fights with little movement and single target, other classes are better than some. Whenever a class becomes good on single target and aoe, on heavy movement and little movement encounters, it is hit with the nerf hammer soon after.

Or you can be a shadow priest and be nerfed while you're only good on single target with little movement.

And sure, you were half dead by the time you dotted everything and erupted but you also had shadow mend to bring you back up with one or two casts.

You're right that it's available. Personally I favor dispersion and just ignore Shadow Mend with it's unsteady healing.

yes, that's what they are trying to change in BFA. less punishing if you have to move right before you cast void torrent to extend voidform and thus your void bolt word: death don't come out of cooldown and you drop out of voidform. And you die. horribly.

Even before Legion people told Blizzard that STM is bad design as with its death penalty it was almost impossible to balance. Shortly after it was nerfed into irrelevance and never fixed for a whole expansion. The changes to STM aren't going to make it any better. If one of the designers responsible for the spec says that SW gets moved to a talent because it is so complex to use I don't have high expectations of Blizzard fixing the issues. I actually don't think they understand what makes the current iteration demanding to play.

still talking about BFA But since you brought it up, don't take STM if you need to move.

Even in mostly stationary fights there are situations were you need to move e.g. to not bomb you group, get killed by another mechanic.

Don't let the other guy hear you say that, he will accuse you of obviously never having played relevant content.
Some classes are harder than others. It depends what you're in the mood for. Some want to see how the boss looks and roll their forehead on the keyboard (BM hunters). Others want more challenge and might even be masochists (feral druids pre rework or, yes, shadow priests)

He actually would be kind of right at least if you change relevant to demanding. With the current design of shadow priests I didn't even bother trying to get into M+ because in most situations I probably wouldn't be able to carry my weight. WQs and heroic raiding it is/was. Which indeed isn't really that demanding content.

If all classes are equally easy to play, wow will be made up of only one kind of players.

It's not about equally easy to play for me but about general balance. Why take a spec of a class that only has one DD spec and make it the rare, rather obscure DPS spec and actively design content that counters the few strengths it has?

It is right to ask for changes on numbers or if a mechanic is absolutely broken, unused, or thoroughly unfun. I personally think that the insanity/voidform mechanic is the most original thing that happened to dps specs. That is my personal, subjective, opinion.

I'd agree with you that it's an interesting mechanic that's pretty original but as I also said by actively designing content against that niche I am getting rather bummed. At least give some of the specs a similar damage profile. Currently with it's outlier behavior you design content and just ignore that one special snowflake.

That's ok. That's how class balance should be. I believe in burning crusade warlocks were the absolute best DPS while shadow bolt spamming. I think there was a dps loss if you so much as used a GCD for something other than shadow bolt. Fuk that.

I don't get you here. What are you trying to say?

Sure. Everything can always be improved. And the azerite traits are still to be anounced.

I guess that might be a reason why our opinions differ so much. I expect Azerite to be a dull system because, as they describe it, there won't be a place to have active abilities on those pieces. If it's only passives and depending on how much of Nether Crucible 2.0 it will be, it's just going to be a grind like legendaries. They did say that it will be more deterministic but they also said we would be able to target legendaries...

[Ophenia]

Stat squish. The overall damage of these spells is increased compared to live both base damage and because they now benefit from mastery.

... What does the stat squish have to do with this. You're saying 80% Spell Power will still one-shot mobs, while Mind Blast is dealing 120% ?
So basically the Shadow Priest will OS every mob he sees ?

How can the "overall damage of these spells" be increased when it goes from 1200% to 80% for Void Eruption when it goes from 310% to 120% for Mind Blast ? 260% to 120% for Mind Flay ?
If it was only related to the Stat Squish, Void eruption would still be 600%. It is not. 80% is nearly half a Mind Blast will do in BfA. No way it will one-shot anything. It will be a pitiful damage (SWP pain instant tick is already 15%, so take 5 times this shit and you'll get the Void Eruption's damage).

That's clear to me you have no idea what you're talking about, that's frightening.

[Deleted]

... What does the stat squish have to do with this. You're saying 80% Spell Power will still one-shot mobs, while Mind Blast is dealing 120% ?

the first 100 spell power is more important than the last 1000.

So basically the Shadow Priest will OS every mob he sees ?

we'll see how mob hp gets tuned. overall mind blasts will hit harder than in legion.

How can the "overall damage of these spells" be increased when it goes from 1200% to 80% for Void Eruption when it goes from 310% to 120% for Mind Blast ? 260% to 120% for Mind Flay ?

because math and how diminishing returns work.

If it was only related to the Stat Squish, Void eruption would still be 600%. It is not. 80% is nearly half a Mind Blast will do in BfA. No way it will one-shot anything. It will be a pitiful damage (SWP pain instant tick is already 15%, so take 5 times this shit and you'll get the Void Eruption's damage).

It is clear you have never done any math in relevant content.

That's clear to me you have no idea what you're talking about, that's frightening.

Awww, baby gets scared?

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Or you can be a shadow priest and be nerfed while you're only good on single target with little movement.

The percentile i am playing at it doesn't matter. My guild's top dps was a BM hunter while the supposedly OP warriors were horrible players and last. Nobody cared much because we're not a world first guild. If the boss dies, it doesn't matter if it goes down in 4:30 or 5:30 minutes.

You're right that it's available. Personally I favor dispersion and just ignore Shadow Mend with it's unsteady healing.

and now (BFA), since you don't have to absolutely stay in void form else you feel like crap for losing out on so much dps you can actually use dispersion as a defensive cooldown instead of offensively for prolonging void form .

Even before Legion people told Blizzard that STM is bad design as with its death penalty it was almost impossible to balance. Shortly after it was nerfed into irrelevance and never fixed for a whole expansion. The changes to STM aren't going to make it any better.

Better than the old STM definitely. Actually fun to use? we will see.

If one of the designers responsible for the spec says that SW gets moved to a talent because it is so complex to use I don't have high expectations of Blizzard fixing the issues. I actually don't think they understand what makes the current iteration demanding to play.

Yeah i don't like that choice either.

Even in mostly stationary fights there are situations were you need to move e.g. to not bomb you group, get killed by another mechanic.

yep, you have to plan for this in advance. refresh sw pain, time it with a void bolt, etc. If the plans don't work out, it won't chunk your dps into the ground.

He actually would be kind of right at least if you change relevant to demanding. With the current design of shadow priests I didn't even bother trying to get into M+ because in most situations I probably wouldn't be able to carry my weight. WQs and heroic raiding it is/was. Which indeed isn't really that demanding content.

You are paying for a game, it is up to you how you get your fun out of your money. It's insane to build the game around world first guilds that make up less than 0.1% of the player base.

It's not about equally easy to play for me but about general balance. Why take a spec of a class that only has one DD spec and make it the rare, rather obscure DPS spec and actively design content that counters the few strengths it has?

to make up for the rather power ST it has. good players will work with the lack of movement and output numbers depending on their skill. If you want movement to have absolutely no impact on your dps, do some BM hunter. You will do just fine. Other, better, players will do bigger numbers with their more damaging specs.

I'd agree with you that it's an interesting mechanic that's pretty original but as I also said by actively designing content against that niche I am getting rather bummed. At least give some of the specs a similar damage profile. Currently with it's outlier behavior you design content and just ignore that one special snowflake.

Ultimately it's a caster like any other and you need to position yourself like you would an elementalist or a destro lock or arcane mage. You need to see what your most safe position is, you need to plan in advance and move towards your next safest position is when you do a void bolt or a shadow word pain. You need to work for your recount number.

I don't get you here. What are you trying to say?

Some classes are good in aoe fights. Some classes are good in ST. Some classes are good in heavy movement. Some are better when priority targets need to die ASAP. and none of the previous statements are of any importance to casuals just wanting to raid with friends in a spec they find fun.

I guess that might be a reason why our opinions differ so much. I expect Azerite to be a dull system because, as they describe it, there won't be a place to have active abilities on those pieces.

It is a better artifact system where you don't feel your other specs are left behind. For the small effort of not vendorizing your extra chest, head, shoulder pieces you can switch to another spec and not feel useless because you didn't grind ap for them as well.

If it's only passives and depending on how much of Nether Crucible 2.0 it will be, it's just going to be a grind like legendaries.

It's going to be nothing like legendaries. From what i read, each armor piece that drops will always have the same traits and you can trade them like any other loot with your raid. At some point you will be vendorizing your drops just like in legion, even if you save up 4 copies of that chest because you're a druid that wants to feral and resto and bear.

[arcaine]

Id love to have mass spread dots as a baseline spell, like other (non DOT oriented) classes have.
Or at least make vampiric touch instacast spell.
Also if vampiric embrace could become 5 min buff like in old times that would be great.