Ret Alpha: What feels good

[killwithpwr]

An easy fix for having perfext uptime on Inq will be to just create a Weak Aura, which will be available on live (and maybe soon on Beta)

[Yhcti]

So from an outsider point of view, does ret look better or worse than Legion? Legion Ret looked pretty good imo, though the "burst in this window" gameplay got kinda boring after playing Frost Mage and SV Hunter throughout Legion.

Actually rather excited to see the dps wings for holy more than anything, love me a bit of dps healing!

[Morally Grey Storm]

It's quite subjective, but I will objectively say it will fething suck.

[Eurytos]

They're making it a fairly easy decision not to renew my sub as far as I can tell.

What is it that causes you to make that decision? Changes you want but didnt get? Changes that happened but you dont like? Not enough changes overall? I'm curious what it is. And is it framed through the lens of PVE or PVP?

For me, Legion was certainly the latter, though I still played and came to deal with it, and somewhat enjoy it. My lens has always been PVE, which is why much of our movement/gap closer issues haven't been as paramount to me, though I can understand the logic behind the arguments. That seems to be our longest standing issue through the years since PoJ changes, and in comparison to all the other melee specs, specifically warriors.

But still, for me, I've always cared more about our iconic abilities, the rotation, and our damage abilities/mechanics than our lack of movement. The changes that I've played around with on alpha, only but a few hours of play, have assuaged me. (Which makes me think, looking back over the years at what I've enjoyed, that maybe the change itself is what I like, and what keeps me playing. New stuff, essentially. But thats a different thread altogether.)

I'm curious to hear what you think, Reith.

[Deleted]

I'm more concerned about the fact that blizzard is not boosting our utility, why take a ret paladin for e.g. mythic+ over a class with brezz/bloodlust/grip/aoe-stun/snares/mobility? same shit as legion I'd say.

[killwithpwr]

I'm more concerned about the fact that blizzard is not boosting our utility, why take a ret paladin for e.g. mythic+ over a class with brezz/bloodlust/grip/aoe-stun/snares/mobility? same shit as legion I'd say.

It's deffinetly annoying that our utility got butchered and is not being replenished as it seems.
Is it too much to ask for Sac back? Is it too much to ask for a reliable defensive?
Is it too much to ask for some utility that actually makes a difference instead of greater blessings?

And they take our Freedom and scramble it.
They take our off heals and make them so clunky to use.
BoP will be hampered without th Cashbringer trait and i have not seen anything that will help it be more reliable.
Our self defence spells still look like garbage, with one of them being an offensive spell... Like, wtf?

Well, at least we get to keep an immunity... And we do have a Stun and a couple of itterations of a CC.
We do shine in burst damage, and seems like we will be having a more interesting rotation with many factors (talents) that will make us have *some* semblence of a choice (unless Blizz fucks up the balance again)

What i do like, it does seem like someone on the other end is finally listening.. And even doing something about it

[Morally Grey Storm]

It is too early to give up yet, cheer up!
I am sure they will fix this if we provide good enough of a feedback!

[Deleted]

I really don't like the new judgement interaction with abilities... it feels clunky as hell.

[kran1um]

Played a little last night; its fine. I only had to 'wait for the swing timer' for a few elite mobs - haste will fix this. I took on 3 mobs at starting gear and level. zero problems. Took on an elite - zero problems. You guys playing the same Alpha right? I must say its less clunkier than other classes. Right now nothing is damage tuned so all we can test is fluidity but if this goes live: My main complaint would be Wings doesnt hit hard at all. My main pro is: wow the ret/prot healing is insane!

[Deleted]

My main complaint would be Wings doesnt hit hard at all. My main pro is: wow the ret/prot healing is insane!

Wings being bad would be the best thing happening to the spec in years. Our sustained damage has always been terrible due to wings burst, moving it into our rotation would be much better overall.

As for the healing, no it's not insane, it's just good for the first week of an expansion and becomes steadily worse as always. Have a look at how much shadow mend heals for on shadow priests on alpha, you REALLY think they will let hybrids heal worth a damn?

Flash of light always seems strong initially, it just turns out to be utter garbage once your geared (not to mention you oom in 3-4 casts).

[kran1um]

Wings being bad would be the best thing happening to the spec in years. Our sustained damage has always been terrible due to wings burst, moving it into our rotation would be much better overall.

As for the healing, no it's not insane, it's just good for the first week of an expansion and becomes steadily worse as always. Have a look at how much shadow mend heals for on shadow priests on alpha, you REALLY think they will let hybrids heal worth a damn?

Flash of light always seems strong initially, it just turns out to be utter garbage once your geared (not to mention you oom in 3-4 casts).

IF you are ret and are flash of lighting more than 2 casts you should either be holy or running away... oh wait lemme guess PVP...


Numbers? In BfA no one knows, not even the developers right now. Right now, Holy is top heals, No one can beat a druid as tank, and Ret is fine, remember youre not a healer as Ret, the amount it gives is fine for the class, and on that tier it gives an a free heal (like druids) every 3 judges if specc'd or has raid wide word of glory, i mean what you want a loh type heal?!

[Morally Grey Storm]

Wow.
Free Flash of Light once in 36 seconds.
I am literally, yeah - literally, sold on that.

[Ryuji]

Still probably gonna pick Justicar's Vengeance. Word of Glory is still meh, and the Selfless Healer needs to be buffed a ton in order for it to be useful. 30% extra healing and an instant FoL is very meh compared to previous versions.

In Cataclysm it was:

"Reduces the cooldown of Word of Glory by 10 sec. In addition, when you heal others with Word of Glory , it increases the effectiveness of the heal by 50% and increases your damage done by 4% per Holy Power spent for 10 sec."

When WoG was baseline from Cata up till Legion.

In MoP it was:

"Your successful Judgments reduce the cast time and mana cost of your next Flash of Light by 35%, and increase its effect on others by 20%. Stacks up to 3 times."

In MoP it was 35%, then nerfed to 20% in 5.2. Then removed in Legion. That 60% extra oomph from instant FoL could clutch save a fair amount of times.

Currently though? Unless Azerite traits are amazing with it(and we'd likely take damage or mobility/other utility ones over it anyway), it's gonna not be so good.

[kran1um]

Wow.
Free Flash of Light once in 36 seconds.
I am literally, yeah - literally, sold on that.

How many does your warrior have, i didnt notice a healing button on a warrior thats not on a cd, can you show me where it is? I mean Justicars Vengeance is nothing right? Getting away and just having a heal button isnt good right? Selfless healer isnt good but its there, like feral druids regrowth. Just admit you hate paladins and love warriors thats really all it boils down to.

Pallys get the FoL back with 3times btw in Alpha.

- - - Updated - - -

Still probably gonna pick Justicar's Vengeance. Word of Glory is still meh, and the Selfless Healer needs to be buffed a ton in order for it to be useful. 30% extra healing and an instant FoL is very meh compared to previous versions.

In Cataclysm it was:

"Reduces the cooldown of Word of Glory by 10 sec. In addition, when you heal others with Word of Glory , it increases the effectiveness of the heal by 50% and increases your damage done by 4% per Holy Power spent for 10 sec."

When WoG was baseline from Cata up till Legion.

In MoP it was:

"Your successful Judgments reduce the cast time and mana cost of your next Flash of Light by 35%, and increase its effect on others by 20%. Stacks up to 3 times."

In MoP it was 35%, then nerfed to 20% in 5.2. Then removed in Legion. That 60% extra oomph from instant FoL could clutch save a fair amount of times.

Currently though? Unless Azerite traits are amazing with it(and we'd likely take damage or mobility/other utility ones over it anyway), it's gonna not be so good.

"Your successful Judgments reduce the cast time and mana cost of your next Flash of Light by 35%, and increase its effect on others by 20%. Stacks up to 3 times.".

In ALPHA its 33%, 3 times. But who knows tomorrow they might take it out completely,

[Ryuji]

"Your successful Judgments reduce the cast time and mana cost of your next Flash of Light by 35%, and increase its effect on others by 20%. Stacks up to 3 times.".

In ALPHA its 33%, 3 times. But who knows tomorrow they might take it out completely,

Ah, thought it was still 10% per stack. Might be a bit better then if it goes back to 100% at 3 stacks.

[EternalBany]

do you think the gameplay to be faster with inquistion?
do you get that BOOM feeling we had in WOTLK or its more like Cata?

[kran1um]

Ah, thought it was still 10% per stack. Might be a bit better then if it goes back to 100% at 3 stacks.

Played it last night and it was 33% unless I misread or tired. I was testing alot of classes so Ill check tonight.

- - - Updated - - -

do you think the gameplay to be faster with inquistion?
do you get that BOOM feeling we had in WOTLK or its more like Cata?

Seriously plays the same. I wouldnt take -or- I didnt take Inquisition, Divine Purpose, to me, was much better feeling and the rotation was really close sans haste for beginner gear. Wasting 3power for extra haste when haste comes on gear seemed trivial.

Actually no, I am dissappointed that Wings felt like it didnt do anything. I mean to me its RNG as a CHANCE to up your damage 20% for 20s, I thought it was a given, apparently not or I had crap luck.

[Morally Grey Storm]

How many does your warrior have, i didnt notice a healing button on a warrior thats not on a cd, can you show me where it is? I mean Justicars Vengeance is nothing right? Getting away and just having a heal button isnt good right? Selfless healer isnt good but its there, like feral druids regrowth. Just admit you hate paladins and love warriors thats really all it boils down to.

There are 3+ warrior healing buttons:
1. Victory Rush
2. Mortal Strike
3. Literally all rage spenders have a chance to proc Soul of the Slaughter
These combined trample current Ret self healing.
Not to mention Second Wind talent which is infinitely better than any heal Ret has atm.

Admit it, you just want to argue and won't accept a point that's not to your liking.

And yes, Justicar's Vengeance is nothing.
Incredibly costly, weak and virtually unsuable without Divine Purpose procs.

If you so like Paladin healing , maybe you should've gone ♂HOLY♂

[Kuriyama]

New Alpha build removed HP generation from Consecration. Wow. The absolute madmen. They actually did it. Instead of improving anything or listening to our feedback, they reverted a change to make a talent once again absolutely USELESS.

Got my monk to 110 and enjoying it a lot. Still my BfA main is between monk, hunter and warrior. Paladin will be demoted to alt for first time since MoP.

[Morally Grey Storm]

New Alpha build removed HP generation from Consecration. Wow. The absolute madmen. They actually did it. Instead of improving anything or listening to our feedback, they reverted a change to make a talent once again absolutely USELESS.

Got my monk to 110 and enjoying it a lot. Still my BfA main is between monk, hunter and warrior. Paladin will be demoted to alt for first time since MoP.

I am quite certain it is only for balancing purpose and they have their reasoning to do so!
It is way too early to over react, give it some time!
Cheers

- - - Updated - - -

Otoh, SoV will now always trigger its damage component, confirming its a dps cooldown.
Always look on the bright side !


Dat em4h nerf, though.
*cackles madly, slowly sinking to his knees, retching bile and blood*