So much for the "squish"... Ilvl 320 What? oO

[Dsc]

We'll be at Cataclysm level gear in the first raid. Blizz, wouldn't it make more sense to really squish it and keep it squished?
From the frontpage off MMO Champ.

320 bracers
https://beta.wowdb.com/items/161071-...oe-cloth-wrist

110 pre-raid mace
https://beta.wowdb.com/items/161118-marrow-shatter

[shaunika123]

I think the numbers atm are pmuch okay

I got 50k hp on my fresh level 120 (which about half of what It was on a fresh 85 in cata)

the numbers are big enough that they feel meaningless but not so big that you cant even make them out anymore

I think it's fine.

I think we'll get like cata first tier level of stats by the time we reach the 3rd tier.

[Schmittay]

I figured since they were doing an ilvl and stat squish they'd go down to like TBC levels, since we didn't need one for a a few expansions and many many raid tiers. Wouldn't it be less work for them if they did that?

[ldev]

They always half ass everything. Leveling scaling? Nope, 60 lvl is the max in good zones, you wish it scaled to 100. Item squish? Yea old items are squished, but raid items will have +200 ilvl, next tier will have another +200 ilvl and nothing really changed.

[Byleth]

I figured since they were doing an ilvl and stat squish they'd go down to like TBC levels, since we didn't need one for a a few expansions and many many raid tiers. Wouldn't it be less work for them if they did that?

I was kind of hoping for this too. But I guess if we went that far it would be a little too jarring? Maybe it's to give them enough wiggle room so that gear progression still feels meaningful whist leveling?

[kamuimac]

I figured since they were doing an ilvl and stat squish they'd go down to like TBC levels, since we didn't need one for a a few expansions and many many raid tiers. Wouldn't it be less work for them if they did that?

there may be no need - they see now that it works so they may repeat the process every 3rd expansion .

[Nevcairiel]

You still need gear progression during leveling, which basically means you need 1 ilvl per level - which is also what you are seeing, level 110 pre-raid items are ilvl 110.
Then you still need progression for Legion gear, starting from ilvl 110 up to what, 280 or so for Antorus Mythic? Don't have the numbers at hand.

So we can probably expect another 150-200 ilvl in BfA. The speed of the scaling hasn't really changed, we waste ~200 ilvl per expansion, and we always need the "current" one (ie. Legion), and the "new" one (BfA) to keep their item level scale at least. The squish just compresses past expansions.

[Loeko]

The main problem with ilvl is not the high numbers, it is that it keeps growing exponentially and that squishes don't seem to affect it in any way. It is already an issue in Legion but despite the squish on Alpha, we can see that things are getting out of control. World PvP is the first victim.

[onesBronson]

Dude, I'm more concerned if I can still run old raids without a full group. The highest I've gotten was Hellfire Citadel with a group of friends, and we didn't even break the 10 man threshold.

[Cæli]

Still not enough imo.

And it would make more sense to squish at the beginning of each expansion, which include old raid bosses so that we still keep more power against them, than every few expansion. They could find a reason why a squish happen, like the mobs from the new mobs are much stronger, so relative to them we do less damage to them or something.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, I'm more concerned if I can still run old raids without a full group. The highest I've gotten was Hellfire Citadel with a group of friends, and we didn't even break the 10 man threshold.

It was how it worked for some time before. The multiplier always felt clunky.

Before you had to recruit people on /2 and use masterloot while getting them know about that. Now you could use personal loot or group loot, and possibly you would not solo. I tried firelands on alpha, the mobs were tough with a lvl 110. It is obviously less "free", but if I had to put my opinions aside, I think it would be better for the game. It's a game based on being in a group to increase that group power, and get more stuff when looting.
It was more rewarding when you had to make full groups to get the old raid stuff, gear, collectibles, mount, quest item, expensive item or whatever.

And anyway, there will always be the last raids that you could not solo or clean with a group of 2 3.

[potis]

Once more, crying for no reason.

At the Warfront testing, aka preset gear, tanks had like 57K HP DPS something like 41-44K, in full raid gear thats probably like 65? 70k and 50K for DPS?

Thats still 1/3 of the HP you had at Cataclysm at the same tier.

Cata had broken level scaling of stats, it wasnt only the items.

Unless they change the scaling, why are you crying about exactly?

[Nomads]

Dumb question, but this means the whole world is getting squished, right? Not just the new content? So a 120 should still have no problems soloing cata raids..

[Dsc]

I'm in the boat that it should go down alot more. I think my BT tank had something like 14K health. If you saw a 1K crit from a lock's shadowbolt that felt big.

I'd rather see us running around the world in Ilvl 30 perhaps picking up 5 lvls a zone, not an I lvl each player level and 100+ each level of raid difficulty.

Heck knock it back to vanilla levels. make the "leaps" smaller. If they are going with 110 pre raid, and 320 in the first, we'll be back at 500+ by the end of the xpack and 800 the first teir of next.

[Koochulu]

Bliz got it in their craw that items needed to be in increments of 5 and the game has since seen scaling issues. The start and end of expansions are out of whack because of this. Going back to 3/4 level increases would help deter this.

[Segus1992]

I figured since they were doing an ilvl and stat squish they'd go down to like TBC levels, since we didn't need one for a a few expansions and many many raid tiers. Wouldn't it be less work for them if they did that?

I was kind of hoping for this too. But I guess if we went that far it would be a little too jarring? Maybe it's to give them enough wiggle room so that gear progression still feels meaningful whist leveling?

Numbers going to TBC levels would create some minor issues I'm sure they'd like to avoid though, like actual (tiny) breakpoints for DoTs scaling with main stats. Wrath+ numbers is the lowest we'll ever go for new expansions' max levels (they've said that a few times too - Wrath is the goal for squishes).

[Nevcairiel]

Max ilvl per expansion:

Classic: 80
TBC: 164. Increase: 84.
Wrath: 284. Increase: 124
Cata: 416. Increase: 132
MOP: 616 Increase: 200
WOD: 795 Increase: 180
Legion: 1000 Increase: 205

The speed of the scaling steadily increased until MoP. It's far too fast now, especially between raids. Squishes allow them to keep going.

The speed increased because we got more raid difficulties. In Classic and TBC it was only one difficulty for all, in Wrath the Hard Modes/Heroic started (also 10/25 split), in Cata we got LFR (at least for Dragon Soul), and in MoP they added Flex (and in the end they got renamed to what we have now). All difficulties need a bit extra room for each raid to fit gear in.

So they'll just keep doing this every 2-3 expansions. Not a big deal really.

[Phookah]

Stats scale exponentially with ilevel, more news at 11.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Who the hell cares?

It's always going to go up, then back down, then back up. People sure love to find non-issues these days.

[Socialhealer]

It was how it worked for some time before. The multiplier always felt clunky.

Before you had to recruit people on /2 and use masterloot while getting them know about that. Now you could use personal loot or group loot, and possibly you would not solo. I tried firelands on alpha, the mobs were tough with a lvl 110. It is obviously less "free", but if I had to put my opinions aside, I think it would be better for the game. It's a game based on being in a group to increase that group power, and get more stuff when looting.
It was more rewarding when you had to make full groups to get the old raid stuff, gear, collectibles, mount, quest item, expensive item or whatever.

And anyway, there will always be the last raids that you could not solo or clean with a group of 2 3.

it's only alpha but if people have to put any effort into firelands at 110-120 we've been nerfed to the ground and those raids need their loot massively buffed for the extra 3 seconds of effort (im serious) this is why squishes are shit because they say everything is just "scaled down" then suddenly you take twice as long to kill mobs you previously killed in half the time pre-squish that's called a nerf not scaling.

[Valette]

For the current expansion, there needs to be a significant ilevel difference between tiers, atleast in the way blizzard currently designs power progression. This means that the ilevel at the end of an expansion needs to be significantly higher than at the beginning. However, once an expansion becomes old, this jump in ilevel is no longer necessary. Theres no reason why a quest reward at level 71 (start of wrath) needs to be many times better than a quest reward at level 70 (end of tbc).

So how do you keep this sort of expansion power progression, while also making sure there arent sudden jumps in powerlevel between old expansions? You go back and remove the ilevel differences between an old expansion's first tier and its last when they're no longer current content. Its not a very pretty and elegant solution, but it gets the job done.