Can there even be a functional Horde post-BFA?

[Deleted]

Yes, while i think Saurfang would also be good, it has been proven this horde only works as Thrall's horde... thought tbh, Vol'jin was OK until they decided to kill him. So... it has to be someone with "plot armor". If he came back, maybe Jaina could calm down again aswell.

[Gaidax]

Yes, while i think Saurfang would also be good, it has been proven this horde only works as Thrall's horde... thought tbh, Vol'jin was OK until they decided to kill him. So... it has to be someone with "plot armor". If he came back, maybe Jaina could calm down again aswell.

Plot twist - Jaina - Warchief of the Horde!

She got plot armor alright.

[matrix123mko]

Why not? She doing a great thing by cleaning up the human and elven filth. With any luck the alliance will perish and we can finaly have peace.

This! I want to kill all humans except Dalaran. Also, kill Tyrande and Malfurion and make Night Elves civilised race they once were.

[Broken Fox]

Yes, while i think Saurfang would also be good, it has been proven this horde only works as Thrall's horde... thought tbh, Vol'jin was OK until they decided to kill him. So... it has to be someone with "plot armor". If he came back, maybe Jaina could calm down again aswell.

The thing is Thrall’s/Vol’jin’s Horde doesn’t work if they want a faction war unless they make the Alliance the aggressor, which won’t happen with Anduin in charge. Greymane vs Vol’jin could have worked. I prefer it this way though.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

They’re changing all Horde races to the undead version for the next expansion

I can see it now.

[ls-]

This is a symptom of the sickness that is sylvanas. Over the course of the game we have seen undead are perfectly capable of compassionate and rational thought, and to strive to be better and find a place in the world. It is the forsaken faction that is constantly dragged through the mud by sylvanas, them sheepishly following her every whim due to their perceived debt. Sure sylvanas wrest them away from the Lich King's control but when does it stop being a gratitude and becomes enslavement? The forsaken need to be rid of sylvanas for them to grow as a faction that can live up to the ideals of the horde.

Lol, no, just no... Even w/o Sylvanas getting any screen time in Vanilla the forsaken were doing exactly the same thing they're doing even now. I've been playing undead since Vanilla >_>

That's the reason why people on both sides have been bitching about them since release. Threads like "Sylvanas is lich bitch", "the forsaken are evul" are nothing new.

Realisticly we can be sure of one thing:

The Horde will not win.

Well, the Horde won't win simply because of "Son of the Wolf". Anduin prevails, his ideals and goals come to fruition, it means that the Horde ultimately loses, it could be absorbed by the Alliance, subjugated or wiped out entirely.

IMHO, it's a very stupid move to spoil "the ending" when there's supposedly ~40 years of events that lead to that ending... Luckily for Blizzard, only a handful of people is into WoW lore. Many don't know anything about and aren't interested in what we're talking about here..

[Deleted]

Well, the Horde won't win simply because of "Son of the Wolf". Anduin prevails, his ideals and goals come to fruition, it means that the Horde ultimately loses, it could be absorbed by the Alliance, subjugated or wiped out entirely.

You didn't understand what I wrote.
The Horde can't wind because their winning goal is to destroy all living and kill off every Alliance member. That would basically end the game.

A faction with the agenda to wipe out the other cannot win the war for gameplay reasons, simple as that.

[ls-]

You didn't understand what I wrote.
The Horde can't wind because their winning goal is to destroy all living and kill off every Alliance member. That would basically end the game.

A faction with the agenda to wipe out the other cannot win the war for gameplay reasons, simple as that.

I understood what you meant. I'm just saying that there's more signs that the Horde loses...

[Haven]

Says the guy who used to chill on Draenei ship on Argus while a bunch of Draenei, Night Elf, Human and Dwarf dealt with Sargeras.

The faction of getting done shit... lul.

The raid wasn't Alliance-exclusive IIRC.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Vol'jin turns into a loa, goes back and kicks Sylvanas in the rear. "Thanks for leading the horde during the legion invasion, but I have no more need of you. Get out of my throne room!"

While it's unlikely to happen, it would be pretty sweet and I'd dig the idea of Vol'jin getting a second shot at being warchief after blizzard robbed him of his first try.

From what we have seen of loa so far, they are glorified spirits/demi-gods. Powerful but far from a danger for establiszhed lore characters.

[Ithekro]

If the war results in a stalemate, but one that Sylvanas favors as acceptable (she's well defended), the war can end with another truce.

If that happens I can see their still being one or two major pockets of Night Elves on Kalimdor. Mt. Hyjal, Winterspring, Moonglade, all protected via a fortified position at Timbermaw Hold, with connection to the rest of the Alliance via portals, mole machines, deeprun trams, or teleporters. And perhaps Feralis with Freathermoon Stronghold and the surrounding area defended and still linked via ship to Stormwind or Kul'Tiras. The Exodar remains safe due to its high technology and spaceship escort.

The Horde holdout in the Eastern Kingdoms would of course be Silvermoon, which can sit comfortably behind their rebuit runeshields like they did before Arthas smashed through them in the Third War. Then there is the possible Stranglethorn, Swamp of Sarrows, and the Blasted Lands holdings along with maybe the Badlands if that orc base can hold off the Dark Iron Dwarves (but that's unlikely). This southern holding would be heavily supported by Zandalari Trolls and if the Dark Portal can be reset to AU Draenor again, Brown Orcs (though Khadgar's not going to be happy about it).

Other places of interest would be Pandaria, Northrend, and the Broken Isles. Pandaria would attempt to remain as neutral as possible. Northrend would fall under the Lich King's dominion still, even if there are some heavy Alliance and Horde allies up there, I don't think they'd be fighting too much. Without a campaign against the Lich King or Old Gods, there isn't much reason to use what resources are up there due to travel costs, and not needing a reason to fight up their anyway. The Broken Isles might be a place for fighting if it comes down to the Night Elves and remaining allied Spirts of the Highborne fighting the Nightbourne and Highmountain over the local World Tree, Temple of Elune, and Azsuna, and Suramar. And perhaps fighting over Stormheim.

[Hyral]

Lol, no, just no... Even w/o Sylvanas getting any screen time in Vanilla the forsaken were doing exactly the same thing they're doing even now. I've been playing undead since Vanilla >_>

You forget the detail that the Forsaken faction identity was created by sylvanas. The Apothecary Society was working on a new plague and the blight by order of sylvanas, they made that point from the beginning in their quests in Brill in classic and was brought up again in Wrath, the blight used at the Wrathgate was the one they developed for sylvanas. The Forsaken, the very first thing they did as a faction was ally survivors from Lordaeron and then betray and murder them under sylvanas' orders. They've been groomed to be psychopaths from the beginning by sylvanas.

What I'm saying is this behavior is not default for undead as evidenced by others who also broke from the Llich King but weren't poisoned by her, biggest examples being Bartholomew and Faol. The forsaken don't need to be champions of the light like those characters, but remove the shackles that is sylvanas and they can finally become a more interesting faction than yet another irredeemable villain no much better than the lich queen's scourge.

[Combatbutler]

I understood what you meant. I'm just saying that there's more signs that the Horde loses...

And in the end nothing will change, Sylvanas dies alongside some of her loyalists and then we return to status quo as always.

[brt2pp]

wait for the whole story, then shitpost

[Devilyaki]

Anduin will be the new war chief.

[Deleted]

My biggest problem is the schizophreniac approach of Blizzard writers to the Horde. When I started playing, the Horde was Thrall's Horde, and it was the Horde of noble savages, who shed their bloody past and just wanted to carve out their place in the world. Then, the BE were added, and they had exactly the same theme - overcoming the evil influence imposed on them by the wars, and heading for redemption (Sunwell storyline). And since Garrosh, this Horde got perverted by brainless, testosterone-filled maniacs. We had a short relief with Vol'jin, and now - what? Shall the Horde become the Dark Side of the WoW universe? That's not what I have signed up for.

- - - Updated - - -

You didn't understand what I wrote.
The Horde can't wind because their winning goal is to destroy all living and kill off every Alliance member. That would basically end the game.

A faction with the agenda to wipe out the other cannot win the war for gameplay reasons, simple as that.

This is totally wrong. Sylvanas probably wants that, but not the Horde as a whole.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing is Thrall’s/Vol’jin’s Horde doesn’t work if they want a faction war unless they make the Alliance the aggressor, which won’t happen with Anduin in charge. Greymane vs Vol’jin could have worked. I prefer it this way though.

You can have a faction war without open aggression. Just look at the Battlegrounds, these are active even when both factions work together. For PvP, you only need players flagged as enemies. We could have lived perfectly fine with a Cold War scenario. But some people just want to see the world burn. In this case, not the Horde, but people writing this SHIT of the storyline.

[Deleted]

This is totally wrong. Sylvanas probably wants that, but not the Horde as a whole.
.

And yet the rest of the Horde beside Saurfang fails to show that.
They are actually very eager in commiting these crimes. Or do you think Sylvanas pesonally and alone mordered the Civillians in Astranaar, or bombed the town in Stormsong?
As far as I remember these were Orcs, Forsaken, Blood Elves, Tauren and Trolls.

[Deleted]

And yet the rest of the Horde beside Saurfang fails to show that.
They are actually very eager in commiting these crimes. Or do you think Sylvanas pesonally and alone mordered the Civillians in Astranaar, or bombed the town in Stormsong?
As far as I remember these were Orcs, Forsaken, Blood Elves, Tauren and Trolls.

As if player characters have a choice. And the Alliance is as guilty as Horde in terms of quest completion things. Just ask the Tauren. The attack on the Forsaken ships in Stormheim was not provoked by the Horde, but very much approved by the Alliance, who as a goody-two-shoes-Faction should have been working on the greater good. But you like your rabid dog, don't you? If we have had a reversed situation, we already would have a raid on Undercity in Legion, like we had after Putress' betrayal. But the Alliance is free to commit aggressions.

Beside that, the usual penalty for soldiers denying orders is death. So.... we have had a rebellion already. It's not really our fault that writers have the memory of a mayfly.

[Deleted]

As if player characters have a choice. And the Alliance is as guilty as Horde in terms of quest completion things. Just ask the Tauren.

Beside that, the usual penalty for soldiers denying orders is death. So.... we have had a rebellion already. It's not really our fault that writers have the memory of a mayfly.

I don't speak about Players, I speak about NPCs that carry out these acts.

Btw I really don't like RL comparisons about this, but during the Nürnberger processes, the accused also claimed they were just following orders. They were all punished by the court.

Reasons were for example that even if you get the order to attack a village, you don't have to murder the civillians, rape and pillage. Your Horde is doing exactly that and no the Alliance is not guilty. Stop with that camp taurjo bullshit. The attackers even let the Taurens go, they attacked those who stayed and fought. The Alliance didn't rounded the civillians that surrendered in the midle of the camp and gased them to death.

[Combatbutler]

And yet the rest of the Horde beside Saurfang fails to show that.
They are actually very eager in commiting these crimes. Or do you think Sylvanas pesonally and alone mordered the Civillians in Astranaar, or bombed the town in Stormsong?
As far as I remember these were Orcs, Forsaken, Blood Elves, Tauren and Trolls.

Stormsong are done by Trolls, forsaken, Orcs and Goblins and considering this is a Kul'tiran town this particular aggression isn't that surprising.
Astranaar so far seems to be mainly Orcs.