"Anduin must gain the trust of Sylvanas"

[tttsssrrr]

More than any other NPC, WoW is a story about Anduin. I like that he is a rather over-idealized character. It actually puts him at odds with the rest of the Alliance leaders, outside of maybe Mekkatorque; whose justice, virtue and honor is seen time and time again in his countless narrative rich story elements. The next expansion after BfA will probably be a revisit to the Scourge storyline and Naxx timewalking. It'll be interesting to see what parallels between Anduin and Arthas they decide to write; or if they bring back Arthas for the Arthas vs. Anduin showdown. And I can't imagine Sylvanas going anywhere before she has at least one more reckoning with the Scourge either. And what better time for the Scourge to return when the battlefield is thick with the corpses of Alliance and Horde soldiers?

[kasuke06]

I still don't see why people think the Horde is evil for attacking Teldrassil in the wake of the Alliance straight up attacking and killing Gazlowe's miners in Silithus (civilians), sabotaging their equipment and stealing the resources they gathered (Anduin okaying the SI agents to do whatever they want is shady as hell). Not to mention the simple fact is that there has always been a conflict between the Nightelves in Ashenvale and the Orcs stationed on the edge of the forest harvesting wood because they were harvesting wood during which they've killed peons (civilians) and soldiers for years now. Ignoring how hypocritical of the Nightelves it is to attack someone for using wood when they're fine with the humans and their own people doing so, Sylvanas attacking Teldrassil makes the most sense due to it's military placement now that the Alliance has stolen Azerite and could potentially use it from there to destroy the Horde capital as well as to finally settle the skirmish started by the Nightelves due to their close proximity and claims that they own the forest.

ah, yes, this very sudden thing excuses the decades of experimentation of civilians and PoWs, for the development of chemical weapons that will kill both sides, attempted enslavement of gods, attempted genocide of the Gilneans, literally plague-ing a city off the map without warning to kill civilians. spin all you want, Sylvanus will never be anything approaching a hero. on her absolute best day, she might just end up being a sympathetic villain if she does several shit tons of atoning and explaining.

Lich Queen incoming.

[Deleted]

I think maybe if she writes it right it at least will show why the rest of the Horde is so much on Sylvanas's side.
I could imagine several scenarios where both factions look kind of shady and the Old Gods, while gently pushing on both sides and keeping an eye on it, don't need to actually intervene this time to get the factions into a renewed war.

I think in the Alliance it would suffice if Anduin only so much as thought about a peace-treaty with the Horde that acknowledges in written form that Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken. I think half his military would try to murder him and he'd have a revolution, as well as Genn and possibly Jaina constantly yelling in his ears.
Then think of all the disgruntled Old Alliance guys that were hanging around in Theramore, when it still stood trying to rile up the soldiers there to want to go to war against the orcs and the rest of the Horde again. Think of all the warmongers we met in the Barrens (Alliance side) who were so happy to finally be able to kill the Horde again and even went as far as to fan the flames of hatred just so the war wouldn't end. Think of Rogers and people like her.
And then... think of a king who proposes peace and actually wants to sign a treaty and give up all those peoples' hopes for war and 'revenge'.
Think of Sylvanas or any other of the Horde leaders possibly wanting warciminals released to them or at least punished for their crimes.
Never going to happen.

And this was only from one side, because the text spoke of Anduin needing to prove his intentions to the Warchief. Imagine the same on the other side. Hah. Not going to happen either.

[FelPlague]

I still don't see why people think the Horde is evil for attacking Teldrassil in the wake of the Alliance straight up attacking and killing Gazlowe's miners in Silithus (civilians), sabotaging their equipment and stealing the resources they gathered (Anduin okaying the SI agents to do whatever they want is shady as hell). Not to mention the simple fact is that there has always been a conflict between the Nightelves in Ashenvale and the Orcs stationed on the edge of the forest harvesting wood because they were harvesting wood during which they've killed peons (civilians) and soldiers for years now. Ignoring how hypocritical of the Nightelves it is to attack someone for using wood when they're fine with the humans and their own people doing so, Sylvanas attacking Teldrassil makes the most sense due to it's military placement now that the Alliance has stolen Azerite and could potentially use it from there to destroy the Horde capital as well as to finally settle the skirmish started by the Nightelves due to their close proximity and claims that they own the forest.

the war is over, then the horde starts mining mass amounts of material in a neutral territory after a sword has stabbed the planet.
the alliance then sends spies to find out wtf is going on and the horde kills them
the alliance then moves in fullforce to find out, and kills horde back...
also civilians entering enemy territory and stealing materials from the enemy faction are no longer civilians, you cant just send an army of civilians into the enemy capital to take everything then when they are killed say "they were just civilians"

also alliance stole azerite?
no one owns azerite, it popped up in NEUTRAL TERRITORY the horde started mining it on mass without telling the alliance, and killing any they saw in the zone.
the night elves are fine with people collecting wood as long as it does not destroy the forests as the horde has.
but that does not mean they are fine with stealing, there is a big difference between someone buyying something, and SOMEONE USING YOUR MONEY to buy something.


Lets use this example.
An alien UFO crashes onto earth in the middle of the pacific ocean, these massive crystals with INSANE amounts of explosive power are filling it and the ocean around it.

North korea starts collecting it on mass before anyone else can step in, and without saying a word.
the rest of the world should just go "ok you do you boys"

[Whitedragon]

With this kind of logic you can justify almost everything.

"It was right to burn down Teldrassil because look what the Alliance does to Undercity!"

remind me again how meany times has the Alliance abused some super powerful object against the horde? oh ya they haven't.

[Cosmic Janitor]

remind me again how meany times has the Alliance abused some super powerful object against the horde? oh ya they haven't.

Well they were about to once.. but green jesus stopped it just in time.. or delayed it long enough for some twilight-romance to actually stop it.

[Evilfish]

Wait, what? No! Fuck that! Sylvanas trusting Anduin? ...

....

We should kill her guys.

[Arrashi]

Anduin is reaching critical mass of "Naive, idealistic holier-than-you, good two shoes, teenager with superpowers". Wonder when he will explode. Or implode.

[Deleted]

We know he fails

[oathy]

Its more Comical when you think in this current expansion we had Auduin full of self doubt
hiding in the shadows, Eavesdropping on conversations about himself.

Now he single handed takes down an Azerite war machine....Mr Miyagi must have been giving him
one on one lessons after school.

[leggomydairy]

It mentions Azerite being usable as a force of creation. What if it's not able to "fix" the forsaken, but give them all stability? Lore wise they slowly rot and lose their minds and limbs. But maybe it could make them more akin to Nathanos?

[s3ge]

the legion is defeated, a weapon stabs the planet, the factions should be working on peace.
then suddenly the horde starts slaughtering any alliance they find in silithus and start mass mining a mineral that erupts from the wound, without telling the alliance anything about it.

that is the complete most bonkers thing

That was an error on my part, I wanted to quote someone who made the claim that Genn's attack in Stormheim was justified because Sylvanas burns down Teldrassil one year later. It does not really apply to the Goblin situation.

Lets use this example.
An alien UFO crashes onto earth in the middle of the pacific ocean, these massive crystals with INSANE amounts of explosive power are filling it and the ocean around it.

North korea starts collecting it on mass before anyone else can step in, and without saying a word.
the rest of the world should just go "ok you do you boys"

Why don't we use a better example:
An alien UFO crashes onto earth in the middle of the pacific ocean, these massive crystals with INSANE amounts of explosive power are filling it and the ocean around it.

China starts collecting it on mass before anyone else can step in, and without saying a word the USA infiltrate their base and kill the miners.

What would be the appropriate reaction to this act of agression?

[Deleted]

Anduin is reaching critical mass of "Naive, idealistic holier-than-you, good two shoes, teenager with superpowers". Wonder when he will explode. Or implode.

Well, he fails with his plan, that much we know, we just don't know how and why yet ^^

But in one thing he is right, if you want peace, you have to keep both factions from going after the other and both factions must trust the other that they will actually stick to this.

Or you could go for the peace through superior firepower and total annihilation-approach, but that would be kind of out of character for Anduin

[Hitei]

That was an error on my part, I wanted to quote someone who made the claim that Genn's attack in Stormheim was justified because Sylvanas burns down Teldrassil one year later. It does not really apply to the Goblin situation.


Why don't we use a better example:
An alien UFO crashes onto earth in the middle of the pacific ocean, these massive crystals with INSANE amounts of explosive power are filling it and the ocean around it.

China starts collecting it on mass before anyone else can step in, and without saying a word the USA infiltrate their base and kill the miners.

What would be the appropriate reaction to this act of agression?

That is not even remotely a better example. First of all, the miners attack first and are outright eager to kill the US forces in that situation. And second in your example China would have to have been attacking US territories across the world for 4 decades.

[Shampro]

the war is over,

The War is not over, fucking Genn tried to kill her and her entire fleet at the Beginning of Legion. THERE IS NO peace after the Broken Shore. Before then? Sure, Varian and Sylvanas were working along just fine, hell she even saved his life in the cinematic. After Stormheim? THERE IS NO PEACE.

- - - Updated - - -

Anduin is reaching critical mass of "Naive, idealistic holier-than-you, good two shoes, teenager with superpowers". Wonder when he will explode. Or implode.

He's a mary sue. Just say it, it's way shorter. His sole character flaw isn't even a thing anymore, getting on top of the Azerite Machine to blow it up, fighting with Tauren and Orcs face to face. Golden's pet character and a mary sue.

[Arrashi]

He's a mary sue. Just say it, it's way shorter. His sole character flaw isn't even a thing anymore, getting on top of the Azerite Machine to blow it up, fighting with Tauren and Orcs face to face. Golden's pet character and a mary sue.

Yeah, but if i say it like that his defenders will just respond with standard "No he is not/you don't know what mary sue is". And if i put it my way, they will at least need to go through minor mental gymnastics.

And yup, he definately is goldens pet character. Her comments about it pretty much proved it. That, and the fact that christie may be *cough* shotacon *cough*.

[Cyram]

That is not even remotely a better example. First of all, the miners attack first and are outright eager to kill the US forces in that situation. And second in your example China would have to have been attacking US territories across the world for 4 decades.

If a group of enemies show up to spy in the middle of an excavation, and are also ordered to steal piececs of whatever is being extracted from the excavation has... how is that not an aggresion?
Espionage is an act of war, and the Alliance did just that. They could've sent some miners down there and start their own Azerite mining thing, but they decided to throw peace out the window by spying.

[Gawdzilla]

Y'all are all so focused on the least interesting parts of that blurb...

What the hell is Anduin's "Desperate Plan" aimed at making peace? It clearly isn't going to be something like "Anduin heads to Orgrimmar and is all chill and offers a Peace Treaty" the way it's written. This has to be a -DESPERATE- plan.

Maybe he offers to marry Sylvanas?

[Psychotrip]

I think maybe if she writes it right it at least will show why the rest of the Horde is so much on Sylvanas's side.
I could imagine several scenarios where both factions look kind of shady and the Old Gods, while gently pushing on both sides and keeping an eye on it, don't need to actually intervene this time to get the factions into a renewed war.

I think in the Alliance it would suffice if Anduin only so much as thought about a peace-treaty with the Horde that acknowledges in written form that Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken. I think half his military would try to murder him and he'd have a revolution, as well as Genn and possibly Jaina constantly yelling in his ears.
Then think of all the disgruntled Old Alliance guys that were hanging around in Theramore, when it still stood trying to rile up the soldiers there to want to go to war against the orcs and the rest of the Horde again. Think of all the warmongers we met in the Barrens (Alliance side) who were so happy to finally be able to kill the Horde again and even went as far as to fan the flames of hatred just so the war wouldn't end. Think of Rogers and people like her.
And then... think of a king who proposes peace and actually wants to sign a treaty and give up all those peoples' hopes for war and 'revenge'.
Think of Sylvanas or any other of the Horde leaders possibly wanting warciminals released to them or at least punished for their crimes.
Never going to happen.

And this was only from one side, because the text spoke of Anduin needing to prove his intentions to the Warchief. Imagine the same on the other side. Hah. Not going to happen either.

These are all good ideas, actually. I can only hope Blizzard is thinking this deeply about their own world, and how to properly create a war-scenario without sacrificing what we know about these factions and characters.

[Deleted]

If a group of enemies show up to spy in the middle of an excavation, and are also ordered to steal piececs of whatever is being extracted from the excavation has... how is that not an aggresion?
Espionage is an act of war, and the Alliance did just that. They could've sent some miners down there and start their own Azerite mining thing, but they decided to throw peace out the window by spying.

I know what you're getting at, but consider, the Alliance could just as well go for a walk in Silithus. They have the same right to be there as the Goblins do. Do you think the Goblins would leave them alone if they did that?
If a ... say... Cenarion Circle representative, whose castle was just hit by a giant sword in that very place, goes there and takes some of those samples, do you think the Goblins would let them? Because, actually, if you go there as the Archdruid you get attacked by the Goblins as well.
The SI:7 does not attack the Goblins, not even to help an Alliance player in a fight. They are standing around watching in neutral territory.