Glad to see the Horde are finally being labelled as bad

[Flurryfang]

video game stories need to keep it really, really simple, as if geared for a 10-year old.

remember when the voice actor for arthas wanted more money, blizz replaced him and had that cartoon-villain type masked bad guy voice (with cartoon villain dialogue too!)?

then you have deathwing flying around saying rawr.

if you want a plot that can withstand some scrutiny, go for a book. if you want the latest episode of space ork on saturday morning - wow is the thing.

You are simply pointing out how it is and not how it could be. Nothing about Arthas or Deathwing goes against the posibility of good story telling. You say, that should go for books for good stories? I say, that i demand more of the medias i consume then just let it be childrens fodder. Besides, one can still make a good story despite having it be kid friendly.

Every once in a while we get a good story in WoW - Wrathion in Cata-MoP, Farondis in Legion and the Wildhammer storyline in Cata, so it is not like Blizzard is incapeable to make satisfying stories... Its just that they apperantly are so incapeable to understand when their stories hit right and when they miss, that they are putting things up for random. Like, i am not a second in doubt, that we will get 1 good story in BFA, but i can already tell, that we will highly likely not get more than just that one out of chance.

[Wildspirit]

Saying the horde is the bad guy is a little over the top. You can't judge an entire faction from their leaders choices. Sure these last few years we've had shitty leaders like Garrosh and now, Sylvanas but we've had great ones like Thrall and Vol'Jin.

Some people tends to forgot that at one point, Onyxia had taken control of Stormwind in the form of Katrana Prestor and that Varian Wrynn was a warmonger bent on destroying the horde by any means necessary, blinded by his hate (borderline racism) of orcs. Let's not forget Arthas... Has anyone called the Alliance BAD at any of those times? Please...

The concept of good and bad guy is too simple to apply to the conflict between horde and alliance. There's good and bad apples in both factions and forgetting about that is too throw away everything that has came down the last 12 years.

And I'd like to remind people here that before Nerz'hul and Gul'Dan were corrupted by the legion and forced the orc clans of Draenor to drink mannoroth's blood, the orcs were not BAD. On another hand, the Humans had already a long history of war with the trolls (Humans kingdoms were mostly responsible for those) and between each others.

So yeah, before calling names, looking at some history and checking facts would be good

[Queen of Hamsters]

No one is attacking you friend, but you gotta admit you're not playing on the good side.

Talking past tense here, bud.

And no, I won't "admit" (lol, like I said...) to the same black-or-white reasoning that Alliance choir bois have, my side is interesting and diverse with evil and good represented.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Talking past tense here, bud.

And no, I won't "admit" (lol, like I said...) to the same black-or-white reasoning that Alliance choir bois have, my side is interesting and diverse with evil and good represented.

Your roleplay is honestly not that good. Try basing it around real lore.

[Deleted]

Label all you want, it's still a playable faction, consisting of people just like you. So go ahead, persuade yourself that you're on the righteous side, but please d'ont label the people playing Horde.

[TickTickTick]

to Sylvanas sincerely, the Alliance

That was said to Vol'jin. He specifically says "If your horde fails to uphold honor as Garrosh did"

Besides... talks in Taran'zhu's voice where is he... now?

[Goldielocks]

I don't understand why people are so against it.

Well, the whole thing is annoying to me because Ally soyboys take this game too seriously and act superior to Horde players because of this. After all this time, even with no clear distinction, many Ally players already do this dumb shit.

Don't want to give them more fuel.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Your roleplay is honestly not that good. Try basing it around real lore.

I'm not roleplaying.

And the Alliance choir bois could do with learning the lore I'd say.

- - - Updated - - -

to Sylvanas sincerely, the Alliance

Literally the most cringeworthy fan service in the history of this game.

[Eosia]

The thing is both sides are good and both sides are bad in the grand scheme of things. Horde has its war-like culture while the Alliance is racist. Horde wanted to find their own place in this world once free of corruption of Mannoroth's blood and the Alliance followed them to wipe them out. The undead inhabitants of Lordaeron try to resettle in their original homes after being freed from the Lich King's control and the Alliance lays claim to it because "It's where the Alliance was born!"

The only real "HORDE ARE BAD!" folks are all the Alliance fanboys falling for Blizzard's misdirection. You know, the one they literally told us they were doing.

[Deleted]

I don't understand why people are so against it. People love playing the bad guy.

I'm just shocked to find out there are so many people who picked the green Hulk monster, or the literal cannibalistic zombie... and want to be nice and friendly.

Because theirs also a group that started playing horde because of how they were depicted in WC3.
And for the longest time horde did many bad actions without acknowledging it and get away with it.

This pretty much... Or let them be anti-heroes atleast.

Not sure anti-heroes works in a equal attention on both sides.
Anti-heroes tend to end up making the heroes look stupid and weak (wolverine vs scot/cyclops).
Or anti-heroes have their cool moments and intrigise but tend to be weaker and have also their flaws focused on (klingons vs Federation)

[Strangewayes]

Please stop pretending that World of Warcraft is The Wheel of Time or Game of Thrones. Please, it's embarassing.

It's just your Autobots vs Decepticons, GI Joe vs Cobra, He Man vs Skeletor, She-Ra vs Hordak, Strawberry Shortcake vs the Purple Pie man.

[Huntaer]

About time. When playing SWTOR, the dark side are the bad guys too, yet players play them with great passion. The horde are the bad guys, always have been.

[Deleted]

Saying the horde is the bad guy is a little over the top. You can't judge an entire faction from their leaders choices. Sure these last few years we've had shitty leaders like Garrosh and now, Sylvanas but we've had great ones like Thrall and Vol'Jin.

Some people tends to forgot that at one point, Onyxia had taken control of Stormwind in the form of Katrana Prestor and that Varian Wrynn was a warmonger bent on destroying the horde by any means necessary, blinded by his hate (borderline racism) of orcs. Let's not forget Arthas... Has anyone called the Alliance BAD at any of those times? Please...

The concept of good and bad guy is too simple to apply to the conflict between horde and alliance. There's good and bad apples in both factions and forgetting about that is too throw away everything that has came down the last 12 years.

And I'd like to remind people here that before Nerz'hul and Gul'Dan were corrupted by the legion and forced the orc clans of Draenor to drink mannoroth's blood, the orcs were not BAD. On another hand, the Humans had already a long history of war with the trolls (Humans kingdoms were mostly responsible for those) and between each others.

So yeah, before calling names, looking at some history and checking facts would be good

Your examples are horrible not looking at things equally.

But what your doing is making an nihilistic argument. You could do the same with America/alies vs nazi germany. Both did horrible things so you can't lable any side good or bad. I just wonder if you ever looked at it this way here as well or if your making this argument for your convenience?
(if your answer is that you have looked at it this way, so are you saying the nazi germany wern't bad or not 10 times worse than america/alies?
Yeah, this is a mean argument im making. But that is how you need to look at the bad vs good argument. You dont have to be absolute black and white to apply the lables)

[Izalla]

Yes. Then the horde and Allaince made peace in the last war when that occured. Then later Genn unprovoked by any current Horde actions attempted to kill a world leader. Blood debts are not good reasons for starting wars.

This again? No, the alliance did not forgive the horde for Gilneas or Lordaeron in general. In SoO they made peace with the horde over Garrosh's bullshit because the players and leaders and non-orc races stood up to him and fought him themselves, proving they were not part of his horde, and he was not part of theirs. At the end of SoO Varian vows to deal with Sylvanas/Gilneas. They absolutely did not go "okay we're okay with everything the horde has done prior to this moment, no more bad feelings guys". And that truce was broken in Ashran when the horde decided the alliance couldn't be trusted and attacked them for finding a potential weapon to use against the Iron Horde (kinda exactly like right now with Azerite, only horde found it first and were also the first to attack). The Legion truce was destroyed when the alliance side of the joint army got the understandable (from their uninformed perspective) wrong view of the actions of the horde and thought they were betrayed and left to die. This was exacerbated by having a dreadlord disguise himself as the spy master and whisper falsities to the alliance leadership to push them to war with the horde instead of the legion. If Blizz actually goes the route of making the Stormheim attack have anything to do with the start of the war as anything more than spite because Genn foiled her immortality plan, or simply a "we cannot ever be expected to get along" example moment, I'll be incredibly disappointed in Blizz.

Disclosure, I enjoy horde side story more than alliance despite playing both fairly evenly, and have until Legion (because only my alliance friends were still playing this expac) mained an orc since the end of Wrath. So if you think I'm biased for the alliance you're very wrong.

[Gurluas]

I think the issue stems from people who made characters with a Thrall's Horde mindset. And it's immersion breaking for such characters to commit warcrimes for Sylvanas.

I mean I'm happy I got to faction change to Void elves so I won't have to mind controlled by Sylvanas RP-wise.

In Swtor you have the choice of morality, so you can be Empire and be good, or be Republic and be evil.
In wow you don't get this choice. So someone who had an honorable shamanistic Orc for 12 years is now forced to have that Orc go and spread Plague for Sylvanas even if that character would rather defect than do that.

[Izalla]

Uhm,
- Forsaken
- Blood Elves
- Orcs
- Nightborne
- Dark Iron (for the longest time)

- - - Updated - - -



RIP 'Lo'Gosh'

I mean, the orcs 100% earned that when they invaded and slaughtered and destroyed every human and town/city they could. Not gonna touch the other stuff there, too much murk.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing is both sides are good and both sides are bad in the grand scheme of things. Horde has its war-like culture while the Alliance is racist. Horde wanted to find their own place in this world once free of corruption of Mannoroth's blood and the Alliance followed them to wipe them out. The undead inhabitants of Lordaeron try to resettle in their original homes after being freed from the Lich King's control and the Alliance lays claim to it because "It's where the Alliance was born!"

The only real "HORDE ARE BAD!" folks are all the Alliance fanboys falling for Blizzard's misdirection. You know, the one they literally told us they were doing.

This is also how I like to view it for the most part, except also acknowledging that the forsaken are pretty damn evil in their actions even though I love them =P And also that the alliance has reasons for their hatreds that I don't blame them for.

And yeah, those people are still insisting that the horde were cowards who betrayed the alliance at the Broken Shore even though we as the player know exactly what actually happened...

[ediomattos]

nightborne were given to the horde just because tyranda was a bit harsh to them? again blizzard shitty writing. i mean who wouldnt be harsh to them when they erected to barrier like cowards instead of helping their brotheres and sisters during the war with the legion

Genn did the same with the alliance and there he is, advisor to the king.

[BobAwesome]

Legion should have been the last WoW expansion. BfA should have been WC4 where all conflicts on Azeroth become settled. WoW 2 should have been where WC4 leaves off and there should be no Horde or Alliance factions, just Azeroth vs Void forces.

[bewbew]

I hate Sylvanas. I dislike the "Horde being bad".

Faction war could exist for multiple reasons, like an impossibility for both factions to survive if they cooperated. A brazilian romancist calls this scenario "The Winner gets the potatoes"; the metaphor is a situation in which, if two tribes that have to cross a mountain range to reach the fertile lands, decide to cooperate, the food is insufficient and they will both perish; the only way for either tribe to survive is to crush the enemy tribe, take it spoils of war and then be able to survive the travel. He ends the metaphor with: "To the defeated, hate or compassion. To the winner, the potatoes", in their new, fertile land.

Or personal romance between the factions.

Or whatever. I love me some medieval moral dilemmas.

It didn't need to be because "All will serve the Queen, in the end".

[Melius]

Genn did the same with the alliance and there he is, advisor to the king.

As an ally player, mostly, i agree with you. genn is trash and should have been left to die for leaving the alliance of lordaeron without help.