Class Development in Beta, April 24 Hotfixes - Mythic Antorus Nerfs

[Deleted]

I don't think it took that advanced thinking to expect us to be where we are with classes the very day they announced the artifact system. It was never going to be a pretty thing at the end of Legion, when it was inevitable to feel like most classes lost mechanics one would come to expect or enjoy. So I hope Blizz can navigate clear from that with the azurite system and such, because right now it does look a bit messy, and somehow the revamped specs look most complete just because they saw a ground up re-evaluation after Legion.

I think Blizz has very talented class designers but i think they just give them too little time before the balancing period sets in, where things has to be locked in. To use Balance as an example, it's got a wonderful kit, it's truly great to play the spec... until you go into combat and fall asleep, just from the arti removal. It's so close, but it needs something more to be truly wonderful, in that combat rotation.

Also, don't get me wrong, it sounds like I hate the Artifacts. I don't, really, but I think it seems like there was too little plan when time would come to retire it; nobody likes to feel like their class got less dynamic and that has to happen if you surgically cut a system that integral to how the class plays. It has a chance to continue in the Azurite system, but it's been a giant question mark for so long that it just won't calm people. So I hope we get an in depth design blog on how that's going to work. If it's mostly boring passives, more like traits, etc. To what extent it will replace arti traits, essentially.

The thing is...

It is more difficult, it actually takes more effort to them, to make this (forgive me) shit of a mess, than to actually just bake the artifacts in the classes as a set of passives and actives.

And it would be more "logical" for leveling. Post Legion 100-110 leveling should be empowerment, not a temporary power burst.

Its like in the spell book were "lvl 5 -> learn fireball" "lvl 20 -> unlearn fireball"

[Softbottom]

cheer up. 8.3 will be great!

Pretty much this. I'm debating sitting out the expansion at this point. Alpha was bad and there was so much feedback given on classes and they literally changed nothing. I haven't logged into beta yet but apparently there are little to no changes from alpha according to feedback posts.

[Grimalkin of Old]

I'm surprised nobody's talking about the healing model. Are we going for the "don't think, click faster" mentality again?

[BicycleMafioso]

I was never a fan of new moon (et al). I miss Cataclysm Eclipse, to be frank.
As for Shadow priests, I think on live (I have awful leggos and no set bonus) that you at times spend too little time in void form. In the alpha, it was excruciatingly little time. I haven't tried shadow priest in beta, yet.
Frost DK still exists. I dislike this.
The sustainability of Windwalker is not good enough in my opinion. The healing we had removed with the Artifact weapon and the cooldown increase on Transcendence makes me a bit unhappy with my favourite melee spec.
The prune with legion removed depth in classes because we got back some in the artifact weapon. Which is now removed and not replaced.

Classes seem very similar and without identity, with some (excellent!) exceptions.

[Fumu]

MM hunters feel great in BFA, they finally have some of the soul back that they lost in Live. Sorry about the dozen+ specs that were apparently sacrificial lambs to make this happen It feels like a total crapshoot wether or not your given class feels playable; it's always kind of been a seesaw from Cata onward with the dev's obsession with remodeling the classes but now it feels more extreme and polarized than ever.

The post WoD devs honestly feel like they both don't know what they're doing and are incredibly arrogant in their belief that they actually do.

[Maduk]

Wow, this will be Legion 2.0.

[Alayea]

Maybe you feel that such questions are a catch-22, Blizzard, but using a non-answer answer isn't the way to go about things.

[Mamut]

Wow, this will be Legion 2.0.

Legion was good so I dont mind if BfA will be as good as Legion.

[Pua]

Same.

/10char

I'm glad it wasn't just me.

Legion was good so I dont mind if BfA will be as good as Legion.

I must admit, I don't get the Legion hate. It was an extremely good expansion. Okay, some aspects weren't perfect, but no expansion was perfect.

Most people who list the problems with it list the things that they, personally at that time in their life, found mildly inconvenient.

It was, perhaps, a reminder that Blizzard can't win.

[Ealyssa]

Wow, this will be Legion 2.0.

Hope so, legion is brilliant.

[dranlord]

I'm glad it wasn't just me.


I must admit, I don't get the Legion hate. It was an extremely good expansion. Okay, some aspects weren't perfect, but no expansion was perfect.

Most people who list the problems with it list the things that they, personally at that time in their life, found mildly inconvenient.

It was, perhaps, a reminder that Blizzard can't win.

Ppl just love to hate things, you think no one ever hate Wrath or MoP or BC. Every expasion the hater show up and comments during alpha and beta.

Ppl hate change.

[beanman12345]

hahahahha i love this QQing, hahahah this happen every beta. You guys calling BFA will be bad bc class change, they said the same about Legion and artifact, and the Expasion been really good.

The expansion started with so many upset, it was only when a class got deep into an artifact, one or two months in, before the chatter died down. Oh and don't even get me on how people felt about alts in the early part of the expansion. But people seem to forget early legion and the crying that accord.

[Fritters154]

The expansion started with so many upset, it was only when a class got deep into an artifact, one or two months in, before the chatter died down. Oh and don't even get me on how people felt about alts in the early part of the expansion. But people seem to forget early legion and the crying that accord.

Well, the alt thing was in part a previous Blizz screw up in a terrible expansion. WoD had absolutely nothing to do so people leveled alts. Then Legion hit with far too many things to do even for one character and people got pissed because they had a million alts and no time to play them.

Artifact progression was perfectly fine for picking a character and just playing it IMO, but it was frustrating to have several characters that I wanted to play and absolutely no time to devote to them. I never saw that as a Legion issue though, I saw it as a WoD issue because I had spent the past two years playing 12 classes because there was so little to do that I could.

[Tiwack]

Maybe means no in corporate speak. Yes means maybe.

[Marrilaife]

Artifact progression was perfectly fine for picking a character and just playing it IMO,

It wasn't fine when several specs got gutted few months into the expansion (prot warrior, shadow priest, fire mage etc.) and people had no option to switch because artifact power, artifact knowledge, legendaries and stuff. If you force people to stick to 1 class 1 spec don't make it a rollercoaster of balance. Even the most informed beta testers couldn't have known what's gonna be worth playing half a year into Legion because so much was thrown upside down. 7.2 was even bigger reshuffle of power, but at least by then some catch ups were implemented.

[Strakha]

i am not excited for this expac at all, but it was basically free via wow gold, guess i will play it.

it sounds like wod 2.0 with even less effort put into the story if that is possible.

[iamthedevil]

This is the first time ever i'm not excited for an expansion, i'm just worried.

[ImpTaimer]

So instead of actually learning what they did wrong with Legion (and WoD and Cata) they're doubling down and sprinkling in bandaids to deflect for them. Ion needs to be on the chopping block he's ruining this fucking franchise. His double-down philosophy is gonna be the death of the Warcraft franchise.

Classic servers can't come sooner.

[mrhUK]

14 years with Blizzard and I've never received alpha or beta access, it's hard not to feel a little annoyed.

[Asaliah]

After levelling a horde character to 120 I have to say that the levelling is very classic with little to no "craziness" inside. kill xx mobs, gather xxx stuff from 110 to 120.