Now Belgium declares loot boxes gambling and therefore illegal

[cparle87]

Lootboxes are "gambling" in the same way that trading card packs or mystery-bags of candy or whatever are.

Which nobody has any real issue with kids buying. So this nonsense just seems like the latest way for old people to punish vidya games because they don't understand them.

If you've got serious issues with kids abusing it, provide a parental lock option where the parent has to enter a number that gets texted to their phone when their CC is used at the online store, or something.

It's scary when Endus and I agree. I need an adult. Oh wait, I am one. Nvm.

OT: Precisely this. Games have parental locks. WoW has one. Parents can decide how many hours a day their kids can play and in between what hours of the day they can. Simply add in the parental locks a toggle 'disable microtransactions' so their kids have to ask them permission before they can spend more stuff, since the credit card info is already stored on the game's website and such.

[Deleted]

Sweet get rid of loot boxes, developers lose out on easy money from a game,

they then in turn increase the price of there games, add subs, or lock content behind paywalls.

EA is good at this, so is Activision, expect if retail boxes are removed, games for instance, on example, like wow, having to pay for the expansion, then having to pay for each raid tier as it comes out standalone from the expansion,

see what im getting at,
killing off companies easy money makes them stick it to their customers elsewhere, should it happen, no,
but doesnt mean it wont.

Or they could just make good games that sell well?

Just a thought

[Kikazz]

Or they could just make good games that sell well?

Just a thought

i was being sarcastic, stopping lootboxes wont effect the games, it was a Sarcastic post about the hyperbole of people complaining that they will just stop making games if they cant milk them through loot boxes.

[Deleted]

Maybe stop buying / playing games with loot boxes instead of waiting for a government to react ? so much addiction to games.

They were in basically fucking everything. You wanted the latest big release you gonna have loot boxes.

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i was being sarcastic, stopping lootboxes wont effect the games, it was a Sarcastic post about the hyperbole of people complaining that they will just stop making games if they cant milk them through loot boxes.

Ah apologises then

[xenogear3]

DLC doesn't sell.
Loot box does.

The interesting part is that DLC is actually cheaper than loot box.
The loot box is an exploit of human weakness.

[Deleted]

And how is that different from buying multiple MTG card packs hoping to get the cards you need for a new deck idea you had?

You don't buy boosters for those 8 cards you need for deck. You buy them as singles from your LGS or online.

[TheDeeGee]

So Heroes of the Storm which uses the same model is fine?

What are they smoking in belgium?

And what about freakin' Hearthstone?

[h4rr0d]

And how is that different from buying multiple MTG card packs hoping to get the cards you need for a new deck idea you had?

You end up with a bunch of cards that you can take and sell or trade to someone else and get the cards you actually want rather than being stuck with stuff you don't want, not being able to move it. Cracking open packs as means of obtaining specific high rarity cards is the worst possible way of obtaining them btw, just go to a LGS and buy singles...

I don't play the game anymore for various reasons, but I'll buy the odd pack every now and then, usually from an edition with high EV packs, like the 'Masters' sets. I treat it as buying a lottery ticket.

[Schmilblick]

They were in basically fucking everything. You wanted the latest big release you gonna have loot boxes.

And that's why we need to boycott games with loot boxes or too much RNG.

[Deleted]

And that's why we need to boycott games with loot boxes or too much RNG.

I boycotted them by not buying them in the few AAA I bought in the last 2 years

[Yunru]

Lootbox defenders: 0
Lootbox banners: 1

[Schmilblick]

I boycotted them by not buying them in the few AAA I bought in the last 2 years

No we need more people to do the same. Games like Hearthstone where pay AAA price to get like 30% of the content.

[Kaleredar]

Everyone is entitled to know what they are purchasing.

So trading card packs and gumball machines are also "terrible business practices?"

Loot Boxes compromise that. If you don't want to be nickle and dimed buying DLC then don't buy it.

If you don't like loot boxes don't buy them.

See how easy that was?

At least when you buy a DLC pack no matter how shitty it is, you know exactly what you will get every time you buy one. Not some random luck of the draw BS just made to scam money out of people who really want something and get unlucky at getting it.

Or you save your in-game currency and buy whatever you want.

I have over 12,000 in-game credits and I've never bought a single lootbox. Suffice to say I could buy anything I really wanted from any event.

The only defense of loot boxes seems to be the OW crowd up in arms because of "muh free boxes!" those boxes aren't actually free, they're just paid for by the whales who spend big trying to get skins and those free hand outs are just there to try to con you into doing the same. If nobody bought the loot boxes you wouldn't be getting free ones, or new skins being developed.

You know I really can't bring myself to care that I can get free stuff because other people choose to buy things.

Like literally, it's almost unbelievable how little I give a fuck that other people are choosing to spend their money a certain way.

And at the end of the day if it's the difference between me having to pay for stuff versus NOT having to pay for stuff... I'd rather not pay for stuff. Simple as that.

Companies can sell skins for whatever price they want like has been done for a decade+, it shouldn't be random luck on getting one especially when random luck means 1 guy gets the skin for $0 one for $30 and one for $300.

You're arbitrarily assigning values to skins as if those were the only thing you got or the only thing someone would WANT out of a box.

Loot boxes are a scam, cosmetic or not.

They aren't a scam at all. They don't mislead you, in any way, in what you get. You get four random items. They tell you that.

That you were hoping for one in particular and were super duper sure you'd get that sweet hanzo skin by the 30th box and are angry you didn't is on you, bub.

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Actually, this would be death sentence for many games. It is much better to change microtransaction system to something else than declaring game 18+.

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While what you said is true, it is still much better than some random stuff in some virtual boxes. I much prefer buying what I want than buy 10 lootboxes and didn't get a single thing I want.

You could argue Hearthstone is similar case but at least I know every pack is at least 40 dust. Which will always have some value for me, however getting voice lines, sprays and poses for characters I don't even play have literally zero value for me.

Just get rid of them already and let us buy what we want.

And I'm saying I DON'T want that because I don't WANT to have to spend money on a game I already bought. And don't come at me with some "well you wouldn't have to buy the skins, they're just cosmetic!" because guess what, you don't have to buy the lootboxes, they're just cosmetic!


You're effectively saying "people can't control themselves or aren't happy with how quickly they can earn things. Therefore, nobody gets anything for free anymore." You're punishing everyone for the lack of control exercised by a few.

[Naiattavain]

um europe and america are very different for how they run things. the translation misinterpretation probably means extortion
not gambling.

[cuafpr]

i'd be much happier if you had the option to buy the exact cosmetic items you wanted vs risking buying loot boxes and not getting it. Even if potentially cost more. Say the skin was 20.00 and a loot box was 4.99 I'd spend the 20.00 to get what i know I wanted vs 4.99 and not get it.

[caervek]

Hopefully the cancerous loot box concept will end up dying out, definitely the worst thing they've added to HotS >.>

[ManiaCCC]

And I'm saying I DON'T want that because I don't WANT to have to spend money on a game I already bought. And don't come at me with some "well you wouldn't have to buy the skins, they're just cosmetic!" because guess what, you don't have to buy the lootboxes, they're just cosmetic!


You're effectively saying "people can't control themselves or aren't happy with how quickly they can earn things. Therefore, nobody gets anything for free anymore." You're punishing everyone for the lack of control exercised by a few.

What?

I think you completely misunderstood me. Or at least I have no idea what you want to say. Not a single word in your post represents my thoughts.

[Deleted]

LoL at people who thinks that banning Lootboxes will hurt companies (and OMEGALOL make games "better"). You know what? They will just put skin and such under paywall any case, like League Of Legend. You are so gullible.

[anaxie]

Sweet get rid of loot boxes, developers lose out on easy money from a game,

they then in turn increase the price of there games, add subs, or lock content behind paywalls.

EA is good at this, so is Activision, expect if retail boxes are removed, games for instance, on example, like wow, having to pay for the expansion, then having to pay for each raid tier as it comes out standalone from the expansion,

see what im getting at,
killing off companies easy money makes them stick it to their customers elsewhere, should it happen, no,
but doesnt mean it wont.

And if they do that guess what.


Dont buy the fuckin game

Durrrrrrrr

[Deleted]

Lots of games can be considered 'gambling' if you remove the money factor. Playing WoW and doing a dungeon hoping for a piece of gear you want to drop is a form of gambling. Playing Diablo 3 and grinding for legendaries is a form of gambling. But you don't have to spend real money for the items you're hoping for - you're just spending time and having fun in the process (hopefully, haha). D3 and WoW do not have loot boxes you can buy with real money, so the only way to earn the most prestigious items in these games is by actually playing them. People can still get addicted to these games, but on the other hand it isn't draining their bank accounts.

Besides, as I and many others have noted, if your definition of "gambling" is "paying money and not knowing exactly what you'll get for it" then a LOT of things are gambling... gumball machines... trading card packs... Raffle tickets...

These would definitely be considered gambling, but of a more 'harmless' variety since nobody's going to blow their life savings on a gumball machine. Raffle tickets are usually for a cause (like a charity), so even if you don't win anything your payment is a donation. Trading card packs can be considered gambling because some people can and have gone mad buying hundreds of packs looking for a rare card, and rare cards are considered prestigious and powerful in trading card games. So these are varieties of gambling, but not to the same extreme as going to a casino. Gambling is a legitimate addiction that can ruin lives.

I work on the CS side of a gaming console (I'll let you guess which one). Basically I deal with store transactions, account issues, that type of thing. A very common, typical phone call or email I am guaranteed to get multiple times each shift will be from a distressed parent who checked their bank statement and noticed money being taken by us. Sometimes it's just a little money, sometimes it racks up into hundreds or even thousands of pounds. 99% of the time it's because they've added their billing information to an account their child registered (usually under false details) to pay for 1 thing. What they didn't realise is that the account saves that billing info if it isn't actively deleted afterwards, a bit like Amazon or just about any other online store. So they've then left their kid alone unsupervised with all this and the next thing you know, that kid has drained their parent's bank account on FIFA points or Fortnite V-bucks or Overwatch loot boxes (though right now Fortnite is the most common and is probably responsible for 50% of our call volume).

The best part is? None of it is refundable. We don't have any way to actually prove that it was the kid making all these purchases and most of the loot boxes or currency has already been consumed by the time the parent finds out what has happened. Best case scenario, the consumable hasn't yet been delivered in-game and we can refund it as store credit. Which is pretty useless to a parent who is now wondering how they're going to pay their mortgage that month. They'll eventually have to go to their bank and request charge backs which is probably a huge headache all in itself, since the transactions were not technically fraudulent. In rare or extreme cases, we have issued refunds, but it is certainly not the norm.

It's impossible for game console companies to police. The terms & conditions clearly state that minors shouldn't have access to accounts that can spend money like that, but there's absolutely nothing stopping a child from registering an account on the console using falsified details and most of the time, the parent is unaware of it until they've added their card to that account to buy 1 item as a treat and then left the details on there. Most parents grew up in a time when games consoles didn't even have internet connectivity, let alone a digital store at their child's fingertips. My Sega Megadrive, my Nintendo 64 and my GameCube couldn't connect to the internet. Back then you bought a game cartridge/disc and that was it. There was no such thing as DLC or in-game currency or loot boxes.

The only possible way to police it would be to prevent anybody from registering a new account without first submitting photographic ID to us that proves they are over 18. This would require us to increase our workforce x10 just to deal with the constant flow of ID submissions and approvals. There are millions and millions of consoles out there, millions of consumers in my country alone. And many of them may have multiple accounts. And even then, there's nothing stopping an adult who registered an account from letting their 9 year old kid play on it and then it's just the same situation anyway.

So yeah. Maybe Belgium is right. There's no magic solution any major game console company can offer to prevent this from happening (except to remove loot boxes/in-game currencies from their stores entirely) so it's come to a country outright banning them. I personally think loot boxes should only be purchaseable directly from the website of the game's publisher in the form of voucher codes that you redeem in-game, rather than via a console store through one press of a button. That would make it more difficult for a child to obtain them, but still allow adults to buy them if they so wished.

That got a bit long. But yeah, it made me think a bit and plus, I think loot boxes are a blight on the game industry to begin with.