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  1. #961
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    No the law protects some ones freedom even when others use the freedom to suppress it. That's the point of a Republic.

    You can't use your liberty to remove some one else's and vice versa
    While that's true, volume doesn't restrict people's freedoms. And your argument is solely about volume. Am I restricting people's freedoms when I play my music loudly over my headphones, and can't hear them? Same ridiculous argument you're trying to make.

    Also, not sure why you're citing the law, since the law is entirely on the side of the patrons, here.


  2. #962
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    Because it a Republic the law > all
    Show us the law that states only Milo gets free speech. I don't think you can...
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelhander View Post
    Reminder that hate speech is not free speech; hate speech is the opposite. It shuts down free speech.

    Attempts to curtail and silence hate speech are not themselves an attempt to silence free speech, they're an attempt to allow free speech to flourish, by removing its biggest obstacle.

    Nazis don't get to cry free speech. <-- That is true regardless of laws that have yet to catch up with reality.
    This /10chars

  4. #964
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    I don't know. I say zero. You are free to widely speculate as well.
    Considering I've yet to see groups of protesters back down peacefully, or even engage in civil discourse with the opposing groups... yeah, not good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Please show a single instance where I did not support freedom of speech.
    Every single one of your posts replying to me.

    Also, these people did not silence him.
    They were chanting pretty loudly. That is a form of silencing.

    Your subjective belief is that I'm wrong,
    It's an objective, demonstrable fact. And it has been demonstrated.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    While that's true, volume doesn't restrict people's freedoms. And your argument is solely about volume. Am I restricting people's freedoms when I play my music loudly over my headphones, and can't hear them? Same ridiculous argument you're trying to make.

    Also, not sure why you're citing the law, since the law is entirely on the side of the patrons, here.
    No because your only using you freedom to not listen. If you played loud music from a speaker you would be restricting the freedom to speak and the freedom of others to listen.

  6. #966
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, you should stifle people's speech, because you think there's a chance there could be violence?

    That's a shame.
    Oh, the mental gymnastics... if your body was half as adept as your mind is at gymnastics, you'd be an undisputed gold medalist.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    Here you go silly dident look far did you.

    The First Amendment's freedom of speech right not only proscribes most government restrictions on the content of speech and ability to speak, but also protects the right to receive information,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free..._United_States

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    No the law protects some ones freedom even when others use the freedom to suppress it. That's the point of a Republic.

    You can't use your liberty to remove some one else's and vice versa

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    Because it a Republic the law > all

    Same reason trump can't make sweeping laws.

    A person cannot use the liberty and freedom to remove or suppress anouther liberty's or freedoms.

    That's the cornerstone of a Republic and America.
    And people were still free to receive information. Thanks for proving me right.

    The dictionary disagrees with you, brah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Considering I've yet to see groups of protesters back down peacefully, or even engage in civil discourse with the opposing groups... yeah, not good.

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    Every single one of your posts replying to me.


    They were chanting pretty loudly. That is a form of silencing.


    It's an objective, demonstrable fact. And it has been demonstrated.
    I would like a specific quote, please point it out.

    "Totes all of them" is a pretty terrible argument to make.

    Your opinion is not an objective fact... try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Oh, the mental gymnastics... if your body was half as adept as your mind is at gymnastics, you'd be an undisputed gold medalist.
    I'm still waiting for you to show the quote where I don't support freedom of speech.

  8. #968
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    No because your only using you freedom to not listen. If you played loud music from a speaker you would be restricting the freedom to speak and the freedom of others to listen.
    This just in; concerts and live music at bars and clubs is somehow an infringement on free speech in some people's heads.

    Seriously, do you think about these things before you post them?


  9. #969
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    While that's true, volume doesn't restrict people's freedoms. And your argument is solely about volume. Am I restricting people's freedoms when I play my music loudly over my headphones, and can't hear them? Same ridiculous argument you're trying to make.

    Also, not sure why you're citing the law, since the law is entirely on the side of the patrons, here.
    No because your only using you freedom to not listen. If you played loud music from a speaker you would be restricting the freedom to speak and the freedom of others to listen.

    From article 9 of the UN human rights commission

    Public authorities cannot interfere with your right to hold or change your beliefs, but there are some situations in which public authorities can interfere with your right to manifest or show your thoughts, belief and religion. This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to protect:

    public safety
    public order
    health or morals, and
    the rights and freedoms of other people.
    Action is ‘proportionate’ when it is appropriate and no more than necessary to address the problem concerned.
    https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/...f-and-religion

    You can't use a freedom to limit a freedom.
    @Kujako@Machismo
    Last edited by mmoc56f3565a46; 2018-04-26 at 04:10 PM.

  10. #970
    Today I learned that a loud private establishment is a restriction of the freedom of speech.

  11. #971
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This just in; concerts and live music at bars and clubs is somehow an infringement on free speech in some people's heads.

    Seriously, do you think about these things before you post them?
    No because you chose to be there. And listen to the concert.

  12. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    No because your only using you freedom to not listen. If you played loud music from a speaker you would be restricting the freedom to speak and the freedom of others to listen.

    From article 9 of the UN human rights commission

    Public authorities cannot interfere with your right to hold or change your beliefs, but there are some situations in which public authorities can interfere with your right to manifest or show your thoughts, belief and religion. This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to protect:

    public safety
    public order
    health or morals, and
    the rights and freedoms of other people.
    Action is ‘proportionate’ when it is appropriate and no more than necessary to address the problem concerned.
    https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/...f-and-religion

    You can't use a freedom to limit a freedom.
    "Public authorities cannot interfere with your right to hold or change your beliefs, but there are some situations in which public authorities can interfere with your right to manifest or show your thoughts, belief and religion. This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to protect:"

    This was private people on private property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    No because you chose to be there. And listen to the concert.
    And he chose to be there, then he chose to not be there. That was a loud concert, wasn't it?

  13. #973
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This just in; concerts and live music at bars and clubs is somehow an infringement on free speech in some people's heads.

    Seriously, do you think about these things before you post them?
    Also straw manning is not gonna win you a debate any time soon.

  14. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Which is them exercising free speech... you seem really confused about the concept. Freedom of speech is not a requirement to be listened to.
    I am not confused about the concept, I embrace it as I have said in my other posts. I was asking someone questions in reference to the things they claimed as they seemed disingenuous. Turns out they were.

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    Also straw manning is not gonna win you a debate any time soon.
    Neither will intentionally missing the point.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
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  16. #976
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    "Public authorities cannot interfere with your right to hold or change your beliefs, but there are some situations in which public authorities can interfere with your right to manifest or show your thoughts, belief and religion. This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to protect:"

    This was private people on private property.

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    And he chose to be there, then he chose to not be there. That was a loud concert, wasn't it?
    He chose to go to an establishment normally peaceful. The protesters came to him.

    Stop being pedantic and straw manning now.
    The UN, us constitution, the definition of free speech and the circumstances of the event all show that his freedom was violated and others using there freedom isn't an excuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Neither will intentionally missing the point.
    I think you might be missing the plot.
    Last edited by mmoc56f3565a46; 2018-04-26 at 04:17 PM.

  17. #977
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    "Totes all of them" is a pretty terrible argument to make.
    It's not when it's the truth. Every post of yours replying to me has you taking issue with freedom of speech.

    Not to mention making a fool of yourself by insisting on an error despite being corrected numerous times, insisting on insulting others.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  18. #978
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    "Public authorities cannot interfere with your right to hold or change your beliefs, but there are some situations in which public authorities can interfere with your right to manifest or show your thoughts, belief and religion. This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to protect:"

    This was private people on private property.

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    And he chose to be there, then he chose to not be there. That was a loud concert, wasn't it?
    You freedom dosent stop on private property.

    Shame you don't support freedoms.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    He chose to go to an establishment normally peaceful. The protesters came to him.

    Stop being pedantic and straw manning now.
    The UN, us constitution, the definition of free speech and the circumstances of the event all show that his freedom of violated and others using there freedom isn't an excuse

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    I think you might be missing the plot.
    They were in the bar.

    He chose to go into a private establishment, and was free to leave when the atmosphere was not to his liking.

    Once again, the dictionary disagrees with you, brah. You are flat out wrong. Wong. Wrong. Wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    You freedom dosent stop on private property.

    Shame you don't support freedoms.
    Luckily, his freedom of speech was not restricted. he was free to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not when it's the truth. Every post of yours replying to me has you taking issue with freedom of speech.

    Not to mention making a fool of yourself by insisting on an error despite being corrected numerous times, insisting on insulting others.
    is this more of the "objective truth" you keep trying to claim?

    Seriously, a single quote of mine, I fucking dare you. Hell, I double dog dare you.

  20. #980
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    From article 9 of the UN human rights commission

    Public authorities cannot interfere with your right to hold or change your beliefs, but there are some situations in which public authorities can interfere with your right to manifest or show your thoughts, belief and religion. This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to protect:

    public safety
    public order
    health or morals, and
    the rights and freedoms of other people.
    Action is ‘proportionate’ when it is appropriate and no more than necessary to address the problem concerned.
    https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/...f-and-religion

    You can't use a freedom to limit a freedom.
    @Kujako@Machismo
    That isn't relevant in any way whatsoever.

    1> That refers to public authorities. This was private citizens in a private establishment.
    2> That's about the right to hold or change your beliefs, not speech. Nobody said Milo can't be a Nazi or tried to force him to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    No because you chose to be there. And listen to the concert.
    And Milo chose to be in that establishment.

    I know it's awkward when your argument falls to pieces, but flailing to try and hold it together doesn't help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    Also straw manning is not gonna win you a debate any time soon.
    It's not a straw man. You made an argument that volume, and volume alone, was a restriction on anyone else's freedom of speech who happened to be within that area of noise. I pointed out how your argument was ridiculous, through analogy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocatus Diaboli View Post
    He chose to go to an establishment normally peaceful. The protesters came to him.
    They were there before he was, so this is just factually wrong.

    Stop being pedantic and straw manning now.
    The UN, us constitution, the definition of free speech and the circumstances of the event all show that his freedom was violated and others using there freedom isn't an excuse
    Literally none of that is true.


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