1. #83301
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Did you raid during Cataclysm at all? The quote in my sig comes from Chilton mentioning after the fact how they tried to make players more hardcore, but it didn't work.
    ok so you just interpret design decisions as the devs telling us to fuck off then?

    I didnt doubt they wanted us to get more 'hardcore" I oppose the concept of yall purposefully interpreting design decisions you dont aggree with as the devs purposefully hating us
    Romance doesnt detract from a story. Its a Genre, like horror or comedy or adventure. The game was ruined when we got Horror in drustvar or nazmir. It wasnt ruined when we had funny quests. So if you think a little man on man love ruins the game, then yes you are either a homophobe or just a spoil sport that goes "ewww kissing is yucky" like a baby. Furthermore, if a character has never expressed interest in any gender, then its not proof they are straight. straight people are not the default

  2. #83302
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Did you raid during Cataclysm at all? The quote in my sig comes from Chilton mentioning after the fact how they tried to make players more hardcore, but it didn't work.
    You can’t inspire players to become more “hardcore” if the raids suck (Cata raids were garbo for the most part)

  3. #83303
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    You can’t inspire players to become more “hardcore” if the raids suck (Cata raids were garbo for the most part)
    You mean for the small part? T11 and T12 great, even a small portion of Dragon Soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  4. #83304
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    How was that an insult?
    thats sea lioning but i'll explain anyways.

    in gamer culture developers are always evil and so aggreeeing with them or not hating them is bad.

    in capitalist culture doing work without pay is seen as you being a Rube.

    so by asking me "whats it like personally defending the devs without pay" is basically calling me a sell out and an idiot.

    but of course we all know thats what you mean. hence why your question is sea lioning

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    How was that an insult?

    Stop white knighting Blizzard. These recent decisions are plain and simple, fucking retarded.
    Like i said if someone disagrees with you , just insult them.

    and this is why professionals dont listen

    (dont take my word for it , they've said that several times)
    Romance doesnt detract from a story. Its a Genre, like horror or comedy or adventure. The game was ruined when we got Horror in drustvar or nazmir. It wasnt ruined when we had funny quests. So if you think a little man on man love ruins the game, then yes you are either a homophobe or just a spoil sport that goes "ewww kissing is yucky" like a baby. Furthermore, if a character has never expressed interest in any gender, then its not proof they are straight. straight people are not the default

  5. #83305
    I thought Cata raiding was awful and it totally killed my enthusiasm for the game for the following 2 or 3 years. But to each his own.

  6. #83306
    Immortal rcshaggy's Avatar
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    This whole Q&A was pretty much;
    For the Horde!

  7. #83307
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'll never get why people say Cata raiding was bad. Yes, it was a buggy mess at release, yes 10/25 balance was weird as hell but the bosses were fun and creative for the first two tiers and even DS had some decent fights.
    The impact of Dragon Soul left a bad taste in people's mouths about the overall state of raiding in the expansion. Cata wasn't greatest overall by far, but the raids prior to Dragon Soul are still my favorite in the game. The difficulty of all three tiers were also mostly some of the best imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by tristannarutofan View Post
    thats sea lioning but i'll explain anyways.

    in gamer culture developers are always evil and so aggreeeing with them or not hating them is bad.

    in capitalist culture doing work without pay is seen as you being a Rube.

    so by asking me "whats it like personally defending the devs without pay" is basically calling me a sell out and an idiot.

    but of course we all know thats what you mean. hence why your question is sea lioning

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    Like i said if someone disagrees with you , just insult them.

    and this is why professionals dont listen

    (dont take my word for it , they've said that several times)
    I have no words for this post.
    Last edited by Seramore; 2018-04-26 at 10:21 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  8. #83308
    Quote Originally Posted by tristannarutofan View Post
    how is recoding things 'no work" and in what universe would it be ok for them to make it so you could stack enough haste to have such an effect. If its not the optimal stat ppl wont do it anyways.

    And why are you calling him "uncle ion"? I think you are taking things to personal.

    if you have any REAL suggestions maybe you should give those but "allow ppl to make the physics of the game different based on the player" or "give ppl the option of Wasting all their gear trying to make a core feature seem minimal" arent good suggestions.
    Slapping the GCD back on spells isnt much work love. They could have come up with something much more clever if they wanted players "thinking more"

    And why isnt my suggestion real? You know it has worked like that in the past no? Who cares if haste isnt my class optimal stat, If I choose to stack it its up to me. You know...choices in a RPG video game?

    You dont need to white knight for blizzard, and if you are going to do it so adamantly at least do it well.

  9. #83309
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    We have gameplay, and it's fine for most specs. I would love for the people that complain 24/7 to actually list the specs that they think are lacking.
    They've been listed ad infinitum, if you haven't seen it by now then you've been under a rock.
    Just go into any of the gameplay/GCD threads and you will see a fair few specs being mentioned.

    Though what I expect is for you to go "yeah well I personally don't agree with that so that means that the specs are fine and you are just whining", much like every other person I've seen that are advocating that the class design and GCD changes are the second coming of christ for WoW.

  10. #83310
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    They've been listed ad infinitum, if you haven't seen it by now then you've been under a rock.
    Just go into any of the gameplay/GCD threads and you will see a fair few specs being mentioned.

    Though what I expect is for you to go "yeah well I personally don't agree with that so that means that the specs are fine and you are just whining", much like every other person I've seen that are advocating that the class design and GCD changes are the second coming of christ for WoW.
    Umm, no they haven't been listed - from day one, you guys just use blank whining about all the classes without any specifics.

  11. #83311
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Umm, no they haven't been listed - from day one, you guys just use blank whining about all the classes without any specifics.
    Aaaaand here we go.
    Every time you try to give a chance to any of the class design/GCD toters, they just resort back to this. Not even sure what the fuck I expected, maybe some form of competence would be nice.
    Wasn't even willing to do a quick search.

  12. #83312
    Hm, wonder if PTR will get an update today or not.

  13. #83313
    Quote Originally Posted by Padwarle View Post
    Hm, wonder if PTR will get an update today or not.
    It popped on and off for a moment today, so probably.

  14. #83314
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    My biggest concern with the second (lol) reasoning behind the GCD change is that they designed certain classes and specs to be fast paced and require a "twitchy" reaction time. They designed Fury to be a spec that slightly adjusts the rotation on the fly depending on if you suddenly get a buff (Enrage), and they designed it to make players have a "twitchy" reaction time by making the spec design to be a GCD capped spec that has a high amount of haste, making it one of the highest APM specs in the game.

    Instead of targeting the problem specs and re-designing them like most designers would do, they target a system and make it a problem for everybody. I just don't get it, and fail to see what sort of "long term goal" they have in mind besides having their entire player base being forced to get used to an unnecessary change years down the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  15. #83315
    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    You can’t inspire players to become more “hardcore” if the raids suck (Cata raids were garbo for the most part)
    It wasn't just the raids. They got rid of almost all casual endgame content; if you wanted rep for the gear to survive dungeons, you had to slap on a tabard and do dungeons, because the one launch faction with a decent number of dailies was the unimportant PvP one. The Earthen Ring didn't have any, the Ramkahen had two, etc.

    Dungeons were now mini raids, in both difficulty and having to set aside the time to run them in case of wipes. If you did your raiding before your dungeons during the week, you also found the raid Valour ate into the half of your bar that Blizzard graciously let you get if you were a peasant--filling in the other half of your weekly bar was an honour reserved for raiders.

    So now you've got casuals who think Blizzard want them to do dungeons because there's nothing else left to do at max level, so they go into dungeons and get destroyed over and over again, leading them to come to the conclusion that Blizzard clearly don't want them to play their game if even the easiest endgame content is an absolute ballache.

    So they quit, one by one over the months. Blizzard had a chance to correct their course with Firelands, because their design decisions were wearing casual raiding guilds down too, but they doubled down on their bullshit. Even their patch dungeons before 4.3 were bullshit--two dungeons, more annoying than the launch dungeons, and if you wanted Valour you now had to run those two dungeons.

    Over.
    And over.
    And over again.

    No wonder they had to do a complete 180 with Dragon Soul; every time there was an earnings call and the sub numbers got worse, every shill on this website had to chime in with "might be down millions, but still got millions!"

    I can only imagine what was said in high-level meetings; heads must've fucked rolled when Morhaime discovered the grand plan to make everyone into hardcores (presumably because some group of devs were upset at casuals existing) was costing the company millions, if not billions.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  16. #83316
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Cata suffered from a lack of content and well revamping the Old World is no easy task and well since their team is bigger it might not be an issue but that's besides the point. Subs may of been lost but....so was Mist to.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  17. #83317
    I think a lot of you are really underestimating how little character development BFA will have.

    Like the tier sets were sometimes just boring passive buffs but they also added a bit of variety often to the rotation or making spells more available

    Yet people just talk about the artwork of the tier sets instead of the gameplay change. You wait 2months into the expansion and you are just hoping for crit/mastery items and thats it. Oh and titanforge on your weapons with PL, gl duel wielders

  18. #83318
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Cata suffered from a lack of content and well revamping the Old World is no easy task and well since their team is bigger it might not be an issue but that's besides the point. Subs may of been lost but....so was Mist to.
    The beginning of cata suffered from a misallocation of resources with the leveling, but the ongoing content, especially the rather lame final raid was more issues with execution. The deathwing encounters looked good on paper but just didn't work in practice, not to mention that many of bosses we encountered had diddly squat to do with deathwing directly. We never got a proper introduction to his machinations, because they just turned him into a mindless force of nature. At the raid we then encounter a group of twilight cultists on their sunday trip. Personally I think they came up with the fights beforehand and put the narrative connection for them in later..

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I think a lot of you are really underestimating how little character development BFA will have.

    Like the tier sets were sometimes just boring passive buffs but they also added a bit of variety often to the rotation or making spells more available

    Yet people just talk about the artwork of the tier sets instead of the gameplay change. You wait 2months into the expansion and you are just hoping for crit/mastery items and thats it. Oh and titanforge on your weapons with PL, gl duel wielders
    The azerite shit can easily cover tier set niveau, that is actually one of the few things I will believe blizzard is actually capable of. What they won't do is cover artifacts, tier and legendary like levels and Ion just confirmed that essentially today.

  19. #83319
    The 'horde could be grey and not evil, just trying survive' doesnt really gel at all with plague bombing her own people and the Alliance and a Nuking Darnassus!

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    Frankly that whole answer was horseshit.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    wE doN't kNoW wHaT pLaYeRs WaNt FoR cHarAcTeR CrEaTiOn MoDeLs

  20. #83320
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellorion View Post
    Frankly that whole answer was horseshit.
    Should've renamed the "Q&A" into "DC" which would stand for damage control. It was all about "We know you'll hate us for this, we know you won't like it, but we believe..." and that's it.

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