Really guys?

[Soon-TM]

I just have to point out the irony of someone defending WoD2 by saying it's nowhere near complete when it's very nearly complete. Do you realize the prepatch is probably only 3 months away?

I just pray that B4A won't be a WoD 2.0 (even if it sometimes gives me that impression), because WoW won't survive another Cata/WoD without withstanding some serious damage. I have my hopes up for Warfronts, but it's worrisome how little Blizz has said about them so far.

If I was a dev for the game I'd honestly listen to none of the whining. For years we've had people crying about how how they're tired of relearning their spec/class every new expansion. Now they don't make major changes and everyone is losing their shit.

People are sick of artifacts holding all the changes for a spec and leaving the base, non-artifact spec incomplete. They make the heart of azeroth not have lots of drastic, game-changing traits yet now people are complaining about the heart of azeroth being boring.

The problem isn't about relearning specs now, it's how to accomodate an already pruned spec into something even more simple, or "streamlined", like Blizz reps love to say. And the specs ARE incomplete without the artifact weapon... Devs could have at least included another talent row with the artefact spells and a couple of new skills, even if passive; it would have been better than nothing at all. Inb4 Azerite, because we haven't seen almost nothing about it, and what we've seen is dull as dull can be.

[SirCowdog]

Which is pretty ironic, since Ion's stated time and again that CONSTRUCTIVE, non-toxic feedback is far more valuable.

Ion can "state" whatever the hell he wants. The actions he takes shows that he's lying through his teeth. Blizzard has a history and pattern of behavior where they completely ignore feedback. They don't value feedback. They value making people feel like they're important to Blizzard, even if they really aren't.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Ion can "state" whatever the hell he wants. The actions he takes shows that he's lying through his teeth. Blizzard has a history and pattern of behavior where they completely ignore feedback. They don't value feedback. They value making people feel like they're important to Blizzard, even if they really aren't.

Sure buddy, sure.

My point stands.

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I just pray that B4A won't be a WoD 2.0 (even if it sometimes gives me that impression), because WoW won't survive another Cata/WoD without withstanding some serious damage. I have my hopes up for Warfronts, but it's worrisome how little Blizz has said about them so far.

In order for BfA to be another WoD, they'd literally have to remove features at this point, as well as zones.

:I

[RobertoCarlos]

In order for BfA to be another WoD, they'd literally have to remove features at this point, as well as zones.

:I

BFA will be another WoD. But instead of content it will be class design.

Cant enjoy the theme park when the cart is broke

[Queen of Hamsters]

BFA will be another WoD. But instead of content it will be class design.

Cant enjoy the theme park when the cart is broke

... Can't agree from what I've played so far on the Beta.

But alas, some people will always do their best to break a perfectly fine cart just so they can complain.

[Orby]

No where near complete?

It's literally 4 months away.

...and its no where near complete, there's no voices to some of the text and we are still missing cut scenes... Pretty sure they are getting inserted over the coming weeks though, so until its released then its considered finish. Or at least that what I call finished

[RobertoCarlos]

... Can't agree from what I've played so far on the Beta.

But alas, some people will always do their best to break a perfectly fine cart just so they can complain.

I want more progression to my character in an RPG than just collecting crit/mastery gear and netherlight crucible passives.

Also some new talents or a change from the incredibly boring 3 row option would be nice.

[Magnagarde]

People that keep on repeating how it's a "nowhere near complete" expansion are no more accurate in their predictions than the ones that feel the urge to share their negativity with everyone and go on doomsayer duty.

BfA is not unfinished; it is unpolished, but the skeletton for the game has been made a long time ago and there's almost no chance that anything people have reviewed negatively will be changed.

[Aggrophobic]

The amount of negativity here concerning a nowhere near complete expansion is too damn high.
It's become a 'Who would win? A new alpha-beta model, or 3+ million Whiner Bois.

Chill out, please. Thanks.

But the expansion is close to done at this point. Classes are done, the world is done, the systems are designed and set. If anything, it's too late to complain now.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I want more progression to my character in an RPG than just collecting crit/mastery gear and netherlight crucible passives.

Also some new talents or a change from the incredibly boring 3 row option would be nice.

So now you moved the goalposts, asking for more progression but then counting the 1 mode of progression that was always "the pinnacle" of the game according to many, AKA building the power of your character. I could bring up other means of progression, but I feel you'd retort with a "I DUN GIEF A SHIET!!".

See my sig link, you're part of the 99%.

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But the expansion is close to done at this point. Classes are done, the world is done, the systems are designed and set. If anything, it's too late to complain now.

It's not too late to "complain" (give constructive feedback).

Do so, I know I will until the very end. Currently crusading the loot rules.

[RobertoCarlos]

So now you moved the goalposts, asking for more progression but then counting the 1 mode of progression that was always "the pinnacle" of the game according to many, AKA building the power of your character. I could bring up other means of progression, but I feel you'd retort with a "I DUN GIEF A SHIET!!".

See my sig link, you're part of the 99%.

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It's not too late to "complain" (give constructive feedback).

Do so, I know I will until the very end. Currently crusading the loot rules.

I dont care about goal posts. I care about them changing fundamentals and not providing options. Just removing options from the table entirely. They never come up with creative solutions anymore they just take more things away.

[RobertoCarlos]

I couldn't imagine going through my life, religiously playing a game that I simultaneously seem to hate to the point I'll bitch and moan about it on the internet every day...

That has to be a sad existence.

Loving WoW, love the look of BFA, and I think Legion was the best expansion so far, perhaps even beating wotlk.
Lighten up guys, you'll live longer.

Save the dramatics. If you cant discuss and hope for change in the expansion development stage then when can you?

[Schattenlied]

If I was a dev for the game I'd honestly listen to none of the whining. For years we've had people crying about how how they're tired of relearning their spec/class every new expansion. Now they don't make major changes and everyone is losing their shit.

That's because last time they made major changes (Legion) they left people's classes in a place many of them really, really don't like.

I don't like major changes either, but this shit needs fixing before that policy is adopted.

[Eurhetemec]

It's almost like we've been through this process many times before, and the predictions made by these "whiner bois" regarding the development process were correct ... every ... single ... time.

They really weren't.

In fact, in every expansion, in every case, 90% of the whinging and whining and moaning and weeping was UTTER BULLSHIT. Total and utter bullshit.

But the trouble is you don't remember that, because like most people, you suffer from confirmation bias. So even though 90% of the whines were trashy nonsense, you only remember the 10% that were right. And I can sympathize with that a bit - it's a lot easier to remember the few whines which were right, in amongst the sea of whines which were not, because the nots become immediately irrelevant.

But don't kid yourself mate. 90% of what people are whinging about now will turn out to be irrelevant at most. Pretty much can guarantee shit like "Boring Azerite choices!" will be completely invalid and forgotten 2 months in, for example.

But there will the 10% that are right, and you'll be screaming "THE PROPHETS WERE RIGHT! THE END COMES! THE LAST BELL TOLLS!" and so on whilst swinging your plague-censer. Even though those theories probably aren't ones you agree with right now, and probably aren't the most prominent complaints. I mean, having played the beta, I can already see the GCD complaints, which I shared, are overblown in the extreme. They don't actually make the game feel particularly clunky, in fact it's hard to even notice the difference on most classes/specs. So there's another that will likely be forgotten except by some ridiculous axe-grinding goblin somewhere.

Something someone is whinging about now will be a real problem. But which thing? Because most of the whines will be utter nonsense.

That's because last time they made major changes (Legion) they left people's classes in a place many of them really, really don't like.

I don't like major changes either, but this shit needs fixing before that policy is adopted.

There is literally no expansion where they made major changes where this could not be said to be true.

It's vague to the point of meaninglessness. I mean which "shit"? Everyone has different ideas. Very often someone like you demands that they change a spec which most people actually seem pretty happy with, or change all three specs on a class where 1-2 of them are actually fine.

[Talsar]

Look there's a basic rule for these things and it goes like this:

If Blizzard is changing something, then people will complain. If Blizzard is not changing something, then people will complain.

[Noxina]

Also this. If there ever is a time to whine and cry, it's now.

It's actually too late by now. Pretty sure they are like 99% finished with all class changes. Now it's just some number tweaking etc the next few months.

[RobertoCarlos]

It's actually too late by now. Pretty sure they are like 99% finished with all class changes. Now it's just some number tweaking etc the next few months.

This is true. It is too late now. Ion and his damage control lawyer talk only highlighted how they are rolling ahead with the changes despite the feedback

[DrStiglit]

But yet here you are on a fansite over 13-14 years after. You know what this is called? Sadistic masochism.

No, it's called still loving the game despite the flaws but would like to see fixes.

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If I was a dev for the game I'd honestly listen to none of the whining. For years we've had people crying about how how they're tired of relearning their spec/class every new expansion. Now they don't make major changes and everyone is losing their shit.

People are sick of artifacts holding all the changes for a spec and leaving the base, non-artifact spec incomplete. They make the heart of azeroth not have lots of drastic, game-changing traits yet now people are complaining about the heart of azeroth being boring.

That doesn't mean all feedback should be ignored. You gotta sift through the shit.

[Frolk]

The amount of negativity here concerning a nowhere near complete expansion is too damn high.
It's become a 'Who would win? A new alpha-beta model, or 3+ million Whiner Bois.

Chill out, please. Thanks.

People are negative cause Blizzard is doing the opposite of what the feedback is telling them.
And they give some BS response on why they do said dumb thing, and now that its "beta" chances for em to revert the dumb shit is getting slim.

[Schattenlied]

There is literally no expansion where they made major changes where this could not be said to be true.

The length of the complaint threads during Legion's beta period dwarfed the sizes of the threads from previous expansions, and most of the problems never got fixed, even so far in BFA... The outcry against most of the Legion changes was absolutely massive.

Very often someone like you demands that they change a spec which most people actually seem pretty happy with

The incredibly massive complaint threads about, for example, Retribution's state in legion's alpha, beta, and during legion itself disagree with you... And most of that isn't getting fixed in BFA.

I mean hell, we've only been yelling, in mass, at blizzard to fix our borderline useless "mobility" for almost 3 years, and they went and made it even worse in BFA.