Master Loot being purged?

[hulkgor]

well ion said personalloot adds control for people - im still trying to figure out what control it gives me.
the control to level 3mages for progress? nice thanks

If you're such a hardcore raider, didn't you do that on Legion due to legendaries anyway? Level mages until you got BIS?

[Gorgodeus]

This is going to rape serious raiding guilds.


LoL anyone want to bet 500,000 gold that this will be Ions last expansion before he "takes another job"?

Hint: Guild runs will still be able to use master loot.

Edit: Hint: I was incorrect. =/

[Morgaith]

If masterloot is indeed going away (based on the writeup on the frontpage it's not certain but i'll watch the QA later) then i can't wait to laugh on Ion's grave.

[Deleted]

If you're such a hardcore raider, didn't you do that on Legion due to legendaries anyway? Level mages until you got BIS?

Yup but just because me and some other people did doesnt mean it is not absolute garbage this time too

[Radaney]

Yes but the whole idea is you trial them and if they are a good fit to your guild, they get promoted and receive loot like anyone else because you are killing bosses, now he gets rewarded if he hardly helped or died in the first minute, guild decides hes not a good fit, they are down a piece of loot which should have gone to one of the players who actually contributed to the kill

how is this a good change at all.....

Because I still think the time and money they put into the game, which is the same as everyone else in the raid means something.

I see both points of view.

[Deleted]

Removing ML is just blizz stupid but easy way to remove splitraids. Kinda sad how they wanna sell this change as a new, better and more fair option to handle raid loot. Because this change sucks donkeyballs and will only lead to more frustration.

Its gonna make splits even more annoying.
Just level your mainclass multiple times,do splits -> play the best geared one.

[Raikh]

If they let the guild groups specific of being able to trade all personal loot freely in, its the revrse effect of what they are reasoning. Imagine you get the big BiS trinekt of the raid dropped in your bag, great right? But wait, you can tarde it to anyone and atleast 5 other dps want it, too. Your loot council or whatever comes to the conclusion that another dps has better use for it and thus helps progression more, thus you give it up.
How does that feel? Terrible! Instead of seeing a boss dropped that trinekt and you are counting your chances of getting it, you stare at it in your bags fearing of losing it, the psycholigcal effect is always negative because best case is the status quo of keeping it.

Scenario 2, free guild group trading is removed. Lets say there are player A and player B who want that amazing trinket. First kill! Player A loots trinekt at base ilvl, keeps it, is happy, player B goes out empty. Second Kill: Player A gets same trinekt but this time warfroged + 5, player B again, gets nothing. Third Kill: Player A gets the trinekt again, this time titanforged, cant trade it yet again, Player B still sits there empty handed.
This isnt rewarding for anyone. Even if you get small incremental upgrades you still see guildmates sitting there emptyhanded because rng fucked them over and you are helpless. Additionally the average power icnrease of the raid is slowed down as player A only gets pretty small increases beyond the first time receving the trinket and if he could hand down the second version it would mean a much bigger increase for the raid.
Again, its only provoking negative feelings.

The argument of trials. Guilds are communities, teams. If you test a new player if he fits in, ofc he doesnt get loot immeidately thrown after him. Maybe he doesn't perform, maybe he is unreliable, maybe he doesn't fit socially, maybe he himself doesnt like the guilds climate. Assume you have a new player, you are still progressing and since you want him due to his past records or class choice on an upcoming encounter you take him in for farm, to check if it plays out well. But it doesn't, not even specifiyng why and the game deicdes that he gets 3 items off that farm and then leaves. Now the guild just lost 3 items for the upcoming progression only because they hoped to take in an enhacement for their raid team. The raid is getting punished here.
It also makes guild hopping more lucrative, disloyal players have an easier time running off with loot, since the guild cant deny it from them.

And those 3 points dont even tackle technical issues, like gear funneling. You can't just go and equip dps players because the next boss is a dps check, you can't jsut equip the tank more for the tank crushing boss next door or bump healing power up to drop a healer or make survivng the next survival encounter easier. You are at the mercy of rng more than ever if you can provide your players the gear they need for progression.

If they really are so keen on pushing such a flawed system they better drastically increase loot drops from bosses to offset rng and gearing issues as much as possible, because its only going downhill otherwise.

[Nefarious Tea]

It is. Read the part you quoted.

"If it is lower than the highest item level piece you have ever looted and had soulbound for that slot, you can trade it."

You. Can. Trade. Loot.

So teh redistribution mess after bosses will be awful.

You can theoretically trade loot. But without a bank full of legendaries that are always 15 ilvls above the maximum titanforging for a ton of slots, you're looking at an extremely low chance that any given loot will be a lower ilvl until the instance is on farm and at that point it hardly matters.

[Lightwysh]

This is pretty fabulous. You get what you get, and if you cant use it, you can do what you want with it. If someone is there for the kill, they deserve a full chance at loot.

The only people really upset at this are controlling tryhards or people who get carried and funneled. Any normal, rational guild wont care and members will/should be open enough to trade the loot on their own.

[RobertoCarlos]

This is pretty fabulous. You get what you get, and if you cant use it, you can do what you want with it. If someone is there for the kill, they deserve a full chance at loot.

The only people really upset at this are controlling tryhards or people who get carried and funneled. Any normal, rational guild wont care and members will/should be open enough to trade the loot on their own.

have fun with all that whisper spam while people afk trash

[Sury]

This falls under "does not impact my guild/raid"

We used personal loot for the entirety of Legion in our heroic raid clears. From a guild leaders perspective it was less work for me and got us to the next boss faster. The boys put anything tradable up for a roll that they didn't need. We got more usable loot than previous expansions. We also reached the point where titanforged items were the only possibilities for upgrades sooner.

[Frolk]

This is pretty fabulous. You get what you get, and if you cant use it, you can do what you want with it. If someone is there for the kill, they deserve a full chance at loot.

The only people really upset at this are controlling tryhards or people who get carried and funneled. Any normal, rational guild wont care and members will/should be open enough to trade the loot on their own.

Have you ever raided in a proper mythic guild? Reading ur post im gon guess with "never"

Im betting that everyone who is in favor of this retarded change have NEVER been in a proper mythic progress guild.

[Deleted]

This is going to rape serious raiding guilds.


LoL anyone want to bet 500,000 gold that this will be Ions last expansion before he "takes another job"?

I don't see Ion getting fired over something like this, especially when it's the entire dev team that wanted this direction to begin with.

- - - Updated - - -

This is pretty fabulous. You get what you get, and if you cant use it, you can do what you want with it. If someone is there for the kill, they deserve a full chance at loot.

The only people really upset at this are controlling tryhards or people who get carried and funneled. Any normal, rational guild wont care and members will/should be open enough to trade the loot on their own.

I'm a healer, I never get loot over dps until they have the pieces, but I don't mind, dps kill the bosses and healers rarely struggle based on being a bit behind in gear, so for me, it's gonna be more fun for personal* loot, but I'm worried about very powerful items not getting to the right dps, because it really makes a big difference for progression.

[Nefarious Tea]

Have you ever raided in a proper mythic guild? Reading ur post im gon guess with "never"

Im betting that everyone who is in favor of this retarded change have NEVER been in a proper mythic progress guild.

I bet you everyone who is in favor of this change has never even raided outside LFR.

[Marrilaife]

I'm pretty happy with this change. I no longer feel like I no longer enjoy raiding because I have to make very hard decisions every time a titanforge drop without pissing off every single raider in the guild.

Bold decision by blizzard and I applaud them for it.

Blizzguy1: Hey I have this great idea let's implement random RNG titanforging!
Blizzguy2: But but it will cause loot drama in guilds!
Blizzguy3: Maybe we shouldn't go through with this titanforge concept?
Blizzguy1: Stfu, this is the best idea ever.
Blizzguy2: I know, remove anything that made guilds resemble guilds, let them just work like pugs, that will solve it! World of pugcraft here we go!
Blizzguy1: What a brilliant idea, screw guilds, they belong to the dinosaur era of classic servers anyway, that reminds me we were supposed to start working on them last tuesday...

[rebecca191]

Did they consider that this actually might make guilds less likely to take newer or more casual members to certain bosses? I know if this had been the loot rule in Legion, there were people in my guild that would never have gotten a chance to kill certain bosses until Argus was dead, because better to let the unimportant loot we no longer needed rot than have that 985 TF trinket go to someone who won't be in for progression. And if they still have end bosses in mythic drop mounts, I can see that happening as well, excluding people who weren't in for progression from ever doing the boss to control the mount going to someone who was in for progress.

[Lightwysh]

have fun with all that whisper spam while people afk trash

If your guild has people afking for loot, that's your guilds problem.

Have you ever raided in a proper mythic guild? Reading ur post im gon guess with "never"

I'm betting that everyone who is in favor of this retarded change have NEVER been in a proper mythic progress guild.

True, I dont raid mythic, nor do I want to. I do my heroic kills, usually well before it becomes farm. Mythic is probably one of the worst things to happen in this game. I'd much rather 10/25 seperate lockouts.

I bet you everyone who is in favor of this change has never even raided outside LFR.

See my response above.

[Nitros14]

The trading loot garbage without master loot is going to be so bad.

I don't want to raid in a world with personal loot being forced on us.

Yes, I raid mythic.

[rebecca191]

This is pretty fabulous. You get what you get, and if you cant use it, you can do what you want with it. If someone is there for the kill, they deserve a full chance at loot.

The only people really upset at this are controlling tryhards or people who get carried and funneled. Any normal, rational guild wont care and members will/should be open enough to trade the loot on their own.

Some of us care more about progression than our own loot and would prefer loot be able to go where it's most likely to lead to faster progression on a boss. But some items won't be able to be traded due to ilvl, even if everyone agrees.

[Marrilaife]

Did they consider that this actually might make guilds less likely to take newer or more casual members to certain bosses? I know if this had been the loot rule in Legion, there were people in my guild that would never have gotten a chance to kill certain bosses until Argus was dead, because better to let the unimportant loot we no longer needed rot than have that 985 TF trinket go to someone who won't be in for progression. And if they still have end bosses in mythic drop mounts, I can see that happening as well, excluding people who weren't in for progression from ever doing the boss to control the mount going to someone who was in for progress.

Definitely. The guild I was in during HFC had a policy you can roll on the mount after 3 weeks of attendance, by the end of expansion when most raiders had the mount it was very high chance a guy who was in the guild for exactly 3 weeks would get it. And it would be very common occurrence we'd never see the guy again afterwards. It also happened that one of the first mounts went to a guy who immediately left the guild after, that stung more than these end of expansion mounts.

My current guild had a situation on our second Argus kill we had 2 fresh trials in and they both quit after getting cutting edge. These people are scourge of guilds. Hop in, get what they wanted, leave, and officers have a headache refilling the roster. I'm glad I'm not an officer because judging from WOD it's gonna be quite a few long months full of these "raiding tourists" that only appear when they want cutting edge at the end of expac. Nevermind they all write in apps how they're looking for a stable home and solid guild for the next expac.

The guild I was in back in WOD handed out more than 30 mounts total, because people kept coming and going. Could have sold them for gbank money and fund consumables for the new expansion, but nope. GM wanted to be fair to people, but they weren't fair to us. Worse part is, Legion is shorter than WOD and that guild won't even manage to give mounts to all their core raiders now, because they only recently killed Argus. If I'm counting correctly, they'll get 17 mounts total, tops, assuming no rekill is missed and my math didn't fail. So someone will be left short. And now imagine if some scumbag guild hoppers get these mounts for grabs over people who were there for weeks and months. They wiped 2 months on freaking Argus, but apparently a guy who just comes after when the boss in on farm "deserves loot like everyone else", according to Blizz's Q&A. RNG gods > effort.