"Trials deserve loot too"

[kheath812]

If you dont like the way a guild decides to do their loot then dont join that guild. the entitlement here is trials coming in full well knowing the rules of the guild they apped for then thinking theyre somehow exempt from the rules.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

WHy not use group loot? While you are at it. You clearly dont care for efficency or meritocracy, take your hammer and sickle and go found some utopia of equal otcome for everyone, let's see how that goes.

Im not going to attack you personally or assume your political beliefs. Its rude. I am here to just talk about the new and improved loot system coming in BFA.

So staying on subject.

It's going to be great not having loot systems or deciding loot. Its Just superior in my opinion.

[RobertoCarlos]

I don't understand your problem? I am just supporting a much needed change and you go personal. I just blew it off because you were a jerk about it. Nothing personal to you. Just a little humor to let everyone know I am not over invested here.

But let's keep this about loot, the new better system coming in BFA.

Yes we all know less options is always better. I mean its not like getting 20 people together in this day and age at the same time every night is difficult enough.

Lets make it more difficult by taking away peoples options to play the game the way they have since vanilla. Yay.

Its up there with killing off 10man raiding as their big bad decisions that has slowly killed off my enjoyment of the game, as well as class design changes

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If you dont like the way a guild decides to do their loot then dont join that guild. the entitlement here is trials coming in full well knowing the rules of the guild they apped for then thinking theyre somehow exempt from the rules.

Not anymore. Now we all get personal loot. So why worry about it? Thank Ion, he is taking a burden from us.

[Deleted]

Yes we all know less options is always better. I mean its not like getting 20 people together in this day and age at the same time every night is difficult enough.

Lets make it more difficult by taking away peoples options to play the game the way they have since vanilla. Yay.

They fail to understand ML in it's base. ML was never the only option, if it's just better why does not every guild infact use group loot since vanilla?
SImply because ML guilds were far more efficent and organized than group loot ones, it's a decision taken because it was infact better for success in a guild. They failed so hard to understand that NO ONE EVER FORCED GUILDS TO USE ML, IT WAS JUST BETTER.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Yes we all know less options is always better. I mean its not like getting 20 people together in this day and age at the same time every night is difficult enough.

Lets make it more difficult by taking away peoples options to play the game the way they have since vanilla. Yay.

This makes it easier. People aren't cut up over loot systems. Easier to bring people together. Good thinking. See conversation is key here. Not attacks! Thanks for that.

[Azelas]

The worst part is, ML is amazing for trials. Because they can join a guidl while being undergeared and after a couple weeks of showing they are not complete dumbasses, the guild can funnel gear to them. God knows we've done this a ton in my guild. It's great, you don't need to recruit people that are geared, you need to recruit people who are not fucking stupid and then just gear them up quickly.

[Deleted]

This makes it easier. People aren't cut up over loot systems. Easier to bring people together. Good thinking. See conversation is key here. Not attacks! Thanks for that.

Yeh just like LFR has made it easier to recruit. WHat a revolution for the raiding scene that was.

[Tiwack]

WHy not use group loot? While you are at it. You clearly dont care for efficency or meritocracy, take your hammer and sickle and go found some utopia of equal otcome for everyone, let's see how that goes.

Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Do you think people are robots?

I personally have not a problem with that, i could ride naked if the game allowed me so your argument is even more funny from were i stand. Yet i understand how for many ppl loot is drive and being able to leverage that to make them beaheve better is one of the only things that made organizing monkeys possible.

You think it's the only way to organize people which is why you'll never succeed as long as you refer to other people as monkeys. Please reflect on how you're the one acting like a monkey and not seeing people as individuals with goals themselves but only seeing them to be used as your tools.
Loot baits people in while the people of the guild makes them stay and keep playing when they eventually see past the fluffy pixels. You've got no argument when you put the loot above the players. People leave and are free to move on. They often do it when they find people around them are paranoid and don't want to befriend them because they're worried sick that they'll leave at any time. Self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuating an eternal boot-camp of trials.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Well i think there's more behind the change than just an ideology of trials deserving loot. My guess would be that it has a bit to do with guilds selling runs and advertising them as "all loot to you". Now to give all loot to a single person it would mean that the loot that drops has to be lower i level than what the player receiving it has. On top of that you would have to have all the people in the raid plate to get maximum amount of loot for a plate wearer buying a run. The new raid buffs do limit the amount of people sharing loot with that said buyer too. These knock-on effects do hurt the split raiding a bit and the people selling runs. Whether it was their intention or not i haven't got a clue.

I agree completely. There is more to it than trails and loot systems. Real money runs is likely a huge target with the ML runs sold for cash.

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Yeh just like LFR has made it easier to recruit. WHat a revolution for the raiding scene that was.

I don't see the connection. But I understand the need to emotionally discharge. You won't beable to guarantee the mounts and gear to you first anymore. I understand man this shit is important for you and people like me will help you get though. Just let it all out.

[Tiwack]

They fail to understand ML in it's base. ML was never the only option, if it's just better why does not every guild infact use group loot since vanilla?
SImply because ML guilds were far more efficent and organized than group loot ones, it's a decision taken because it was infact better for success in a guild. They failed so hard to understand that NO ONE EVER FORCED GUILDS TO USE ML, IT WAS JUST BETTER.

Better efficiency at one end while abusive on the other. Players come and go. Don't worry, wow will go on. Chill out or get on the Classic hype train if you think this kills the game instead of saves it.

[Deleted]

Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Do you think people are robots?

Pl is not equal opportunity, it's equal outcome because it does not depend on your merits in any form.

[QUOTE=You think it's the only way to organize people which is why you'll never succeed as long as you refer to other people as monkeys. Please reflect on how you're the one acting like a monkey and not seeing people as individuals with goals themselves but only seeing them to be used as your tools.
Loot baits people in while the people of the guild makes them stay and keep playing when they eventually see past the fluffy pixels. You've got no argument when you put the loot above the players. People leave and are free to move on. They often do it when they find people around them are paranoid and don't want to befriend them because they're worried sick that they'll leave at any time. Self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuating an eternal boot-camp of trials.[/QUOTE]

Again it's a matter of efficency, I raid with friends now and i dont even use ML. The more you want to compete the more you need efficency and yes the more people become tools. At first glance. You fail to understand that choice is in your hands with ML while its' not with PL. You can choose to run your guild how you see fit, but ask you this.
Why Every high end guild use loot councils or ML in general? fun? or there is actually a reason to choose it over a group loot?

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I agree completely. There is more to it than trails and loot systems. Real money runs is likely a huge target with the ML runs sold for cash.

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I don't see the connection. But I understand the need to emotionally discharge. You won't beable to guarantee the mounts and gear to you first anymore. I understand man this shit is important for you and people like me will help you get though. Just let it all out.

Again you assume that since you dont understand an analogy i'm just a loot hoarder? funny as hell. As i stated before if tomorrow gear and mounts are removed from the game and i can raid without it i could not care less. Pathetic attempt to look smart by being condescending, you look just as a caricature of hollywood concept of the "smart" man

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Better efficiency at one end while abusive on the other. Players come and go. Don't worry, wow will go on. Chill out or get on the Classic hype train if you think this kills the game instead of saves it.

That's true. If you want to experience master loot if will be in Classic. Sometimes you need to go back to out dated systems to see wht systems are out dated. ML was for that type of game. We got slot machine gamble game now. Its different.

[Spiffums]

Okay so the logic is you can't test anyone ever.

No the logic is people are there for the kill they are just as deserving of any loot that drops as the next person. And since it's personal loot IT'S THEIR LOOT.

[Deleted]

Better efficiency at one end while abusive on the other. Players come and go. Don't worry, wow will go on. Chill out or get on the Classic hype train if you think this kills the game instead of saves it.

As if i care about wow classic. Been there, could not care less to do that again. And yes the road to improve and be more efficent is not a flower tea party and never will be in any social interaction between humans

[Spiffums]

Genius idea! What do you propose we do when some players start quitting due to burnout from trials getting all the pieces they've been wanting forever over them and they realize that being in an organized group is no longer rewarding enough?

Same thing you do now when all the officers and leaders get their gear and get burned out.

[Deleted]

Same thing you do now when all the officers and leaders get their gear and get burned out.

except as a player you did nothing but show up for the raid and can do the same in other guilds, as a staff member the story is quite different believe me.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Again you assume that since you dont understand an analogy i'm just a loot hoarder? funny as hell. As i stated before if tomorrow gear and mounts are removed from the game and i can raid without it i could not care less. Pathetic attempt to look smart by being condescending, you look just as a caricature of hollywood concept of the "smart" man

You think I can use this on a college thesis paper? It makes me look smart. Thats amazing. You pull things together well. Thanks for the inspiration! If I was less of a man I might get emotional and attack people over loot in WoW. But who wants to be that way right.

We need to focus on going forward. Loot is just loot no. No choice and I think its going to be great.

[Deleted]

You think I can use this on a college thesis paper? It makes me look smart. Thats amazing. You pull things together well. Thanks for the inspiration! If I was less of a man I might get emotional and attack people over loot in WoW. But who wants to be that way right.

We need to focus on going forward. Loot is just loot no. No choice and I think its going to be great.

You went full troll. Never go full troll.

Infracted [MoanaLisa]

[Spiffums]

I get it that people who are trial for a guild want to have a shot at loot. But a lot of trials are also understandable about the fact that they can't get a shot of loot. You have to prove that you are trustworthy person who can pull their weight and where items are not getting wasted on (which are important to actually progress on a group).

Do you know how frustrating it is when you gear a person and that person is joining another guild/quitting WoW during progression because they are either unloyal (guild hopping helps often), or make up their mind about WoW at all and quit? It's a huge hit on the motivation of people building up a raid/guild who put a lot of work into making a guild thrive. I can guarantee that this change will hit a lot of new guilds who try to build up a good raiding guild, because people will get unmotivated fast.

Also the point is that you can always search another raid/guild which do not have such restrictions. That's why people are pissed off. You take them the opportunity to buld their guild/raid as they want it.

That's true under MasterLooter.......but with everything being personal loot it's going to be a lot harder to convince people that you, as a trial, should give up loot that you get from PL to someone else. On the flip side it should really make guilds work harder to get and try to keep people to raid with them.