PW:S has no cooldown on alpha..?

[kran1um]

I haven't tested it myself, but based off the tooltip, Shield Discipline does not give mana back when it expires, only if the absorb is fully consumed. If you spam bubbles in a raid and any of them do not get fully absorbed before their timer runs out, that's wasted mana you could use for more effective healing.

Well pre-bubble is to pre-bubble, gotta know the boss and not just bubble people out of shear boredom. All the bubbles are not going to get absorbed, its reaction upon action, the main probability is you know 100% you are getting mana back from the tanks, thats what I think the talent is intended for, if you are bubbling an dps after he gets hit, well...without the talent not sure why, but if the bubble gives healing which is another talent - an instant 2k heal..yes please.

[Ladyoftheforest]

Looks like multiple healing specs are going to be able to dps to heal - a development I really like! I still feel we need a new or better cooldown, especially with Light's Wrath out of the picture. Lumious Barrier looks a bit weak (could be wrong here) and is competing with the very strong Evangelism. Would love to see Devine Star or Halo receive buffs to make them very viable. I'm also not sure why they put Lenience in there. As if they're running out of ideas. Holy Paladin already has damage reduction covered with Aura of Sacrice and Devotion Aura. Class identity must be respected.

[Puupi]

Looks like multiple healing specs are going to be able to dps to heal - a development I really like!

I must have missed something?

Disc priest can dps to heal, and paladins have that one talent which makes their 2min cd heal from dps.

Other than that.....?

[Ladyoftheforest]

I must have missed something?

Disc priest can dps to heal, and paladins have that one talent which makes their 2min cd heal from dps.

Other than that.....?

Sorry, I mean with Mistweaver that they can throw out 'atonements' and heal those with vivify, this combined with fistweaving reminded me of Discpriest while not exactly the same

[Puupi]

I'm kind of worried about the AoE healing output of disc priest in 5mans now that Shadow Covenant is gone.

[Deleted]

I'm kind of worried about the AoE healing output of disc priest in 5mans now that Shadow Covenant is gone.

honestly, i never liked that spell, even when it was "useful".

im glad its gone no matter.

[Puupi]

honestly, i never liked that spell, even when it was "useful".

im glad its gone no matter.

Well there is still the issue with Disc. How to heal 5 people during heavy AoE damage? Atonement healing won't be enough - it can't be. If it was, then disc would be absolutely OP in raid environment due to increased atonement targets.

Shadow Covenant was a tool to fix this issue. Now it's gone and there's nothing to replace it.....

Guess we are back to panic spamming of Shadow Mend from target to another and hope it's enough.

[Rife]

Well there is still the issue with Disc. How to heal 5 people during heavy AoE damage? Atonement healing won't be enough - it can't be. If it was, then disc would be absolutely OP in raid environment due to increased atonement targets.

Shadow Covenant was a tool to fix this issue. Now it's gone and there's nothing to replace it.....

Guess we are back to panic spamming of Shadow Mend from target to another and hope it's enough.

This is the main reason I'm not tinkering around with Disc on beta at the moment even though I main on live.

Not being viable for Bursting is a huge issue for me.

The larger issue is that Atonement feels useless on beta. It won't be enough to out-heal grievous or deal with bursting or deal with any boss mechanic that requires burst healing on 3-5 targets.

Atonement is the mechanic that I like about Disc; more than the absorb aspect and at the moment atonement looks to be a noob trap.

[Puupi]

This is the main reason I'm not tinkering around with Disc on beta at the moment even though I main on live.

Not being viable for Bursting is a huge issue for me.

The larger issue is that Atonement feels useless on beta. It won't be enough to out-heal grievous or deal with bursting or deal with any boss mechanic that requires burst healing on 3-5 targets.

Yeah Blizzard really needs to do something (= reintroduce Shadow Covenant, preferably to replace Grace and make Grace a baseline passive)

Atonement is the mechanic that I like about Disc; more than the absorb aspect and at the moment atonement looks to be a noob trap.

Yep, the disc mastery kind of highlights what the spec is about now. PW:S, Shadow Mend and Penance. Atonement is only good for that offensive penance, the rest of the time you should be spamming shields and Shadow Mend.

Shadow Mend is super strong though compared to other single target heals in the game.

[Deleted]

Totally agree with the numbers being awful. Do you have a general idea/proposal how strong it'd have to be to be useful but not too overpowered to be mandatory to have?

Keep in mind that apart from maybe the top 200, you cannot expect every raid group to have every healer class on hand on demand. I would claim that they almost always have a shaman, but I bet there are dozens of guilds without even a single resto shaman. If you DO have a monk, rshaman and dpriest in your roster, the dpriest most likely won't need LB, but the possibility is there (plus depending on player the dpriest could switch to hpriest for a fight). So long as it offers a viable choice for limited rosters, I'd really love to keep it (in a slightly buffed up form).

It's not easy to say to be honest.


At the moment the shield formula is:
Spell Power * 1.5 * (1 + Versatility)

Power Word: Shield in BfA is:
Spell Power * 0.9 * (1 + Versatility), however, it's affected by our new Mastery.

Revival is:
Spell Power * 1.5

So, technically, LB is stronger than Revival, right? Well, it's not. Either the formula is not being applied properly, or I'm missing something.

Revival, with 185 gear and 1105 intellect, heals for 2203 to everyone in the party.
LB, with 185 gear and 1101 intellect and 9% versatility, shields for 1795 to everyone in 40 yards.

So I don't really get how the formulas are being applied because for me the numbers are not matching at all.

With this being said, for me the change is easy.

Make LB be affected by our mastery just like PW:S is, and make it apply Atonement. That way, we can combo with Mindbender or a Penance and have something close to what Light's Wrath is doing right now.
That would make us choose between a stacked 25% damage reduction or a burst healing available in movement scenearios.

That is my suggestion, and I already sent it.

[theburned]

It's not easy to say to be honest.


At the moment the shield formula is:
Spell Power * 1.5 * (1 + Versatility)

Power Word: Shield in BfA is:
Spell Power * 0.9 * (1 + Versatility), however, it's affected by our new Mastery.

Revival is:
Spell Power * 1.5

So, technically, LB is stronger than Revival, right? Well, it's not. Either the formula is not being applied properly, or I'm missing something.

Revival, with 185 gear and 1105 intellect, heals for 2203 to everyone in the party.
LB, with 185 gear and 1101 intellect and 9% versatility, shields for 1795 to everyone in 40 yards.

So I don't really get how the formulas are being applied because for me the numbers are not matching at all.

With this being said, for me the change is easy.

Make LB be affected by our mastery just like PW:S is, and make it apply Atonement. That way, we can combo with Mindbender or a Penance and have something close to what Light's Wrath is doing right now.
That would make us choose between a stacked 25% damage reduction or a burst healing available in movement scenearios.

That is my suggestion, and I already sent it.

Your math is way off,
LB is SP * 1.5 * (1+vers)
revival is SP * 1.8 *(1+vers)
PW:S is SP * 0.9*(1+vers)*(1+mastery)

LB applying attonement is out of the question, that shit would be retardedly strong.

[Deleted]

Your math is way off,
LB is SP * 1.5 * (1+vers)
revival is SP * 1.8 *(1+vers)
PW:S is SP * 0.9*(1+vers)*(1+mastery)

LB applying attonement is out of the question, that shit would be retardedly strong.

The math for LB and PW:S was right in my post, I just didn't put the exact number for the mastery part, so it's just the Revival formula which I messed up.

Anyway, LB applying Atonement wouldn't be retardedly strong considering that with a shit attack or ability the shield is already lost leaving only the Atonement.

In the end it doesn't matter for now as Blizzard already said that this week there are two changes for Discipline incoming:

1) Buff to Luminous Barrier
2) 50% increased damage for Penance on a chance with SW:P damage baseline

[Brighter]

Well there is still the issue with Disc. How to heal 5 people during heavy AoE damage? Atonement healing won't be enough - it can't be. If it was, then disc would be absolutely OP in raid environment due to increased atonement targets.

Shadow Covenant was a tool to fix this issue. Now it's gone and there's nothing to replace it.....

Guess we are back to panic spamming of Shadow Mend from target to another and hope it's enough.

Disc is great in a raid environment because of increased atonement target... not sure what you're getting at.

In M+ there's a lot of times where the group takes heavy AoE and a radiance/penance and few smites can cover it. For anything bigger a disc could pre CoW. With CoW gone though, this provides a new strategy to be taken. Rapture will probably be used in places where you would CoW the group. Barrier is still a thing.

Shadow Covenant wasn't even that good tbh. I never used it in cases that it was "good to use".

[Puupi]

Disc is great in a raid environment because of increased atonement target... not sure what you're getting at.

In M+ there's a lot of times where the group takes heavy AoE and a radiance/penance and few smites can cover it. For anything bigger a disc could pre CoW. With CoW gone though, this provides a new strategy to be taken. Rapture will probably be used in places where you would CoW the group. Barrier is still a thing.

Shadow Covenant wasn't even that good tbh. I never used it in cases that it was "good to use".

If atonement healing was as effective as the aoe healing other healers have for 5 targets, disc would be brokenly OP compared to other healers in a raid.

Radiance+penance+a few smites doesn't heal through heavy damage.

In BfA, atonement isn't scaling anymore with mastery, it's capped at 40%....which is like ~half of what you have in live currently.

[Ladyoftheforest]

1) Buff to Luminous Barrier
2) 50% increased damage for Penance on a chance with SW:P damage baseline

That's a good start, was happy when I read the announcement. Do you feel that Holy Priests has one of the best healing cooldowns in bfa? After looking at the changes made to other healers it looks like Holy is very strong in raids and a class like Holy Paladin gutted with the decreased crit chance of HS and AoS. Mistweaver also looks better for mythic+ with the change to vivify. Resto druid will probably still be good in raids with their artifact power baked into Flourish.

[Puupi]

That's a good start, was happy when I read the announcement. Do you feel that Holy Priests has one of the best healing cooldowns in bfa? After looking at the changes made to other healers it looks like Holy is very strong in raids and a class like Holy Paladin gutted with the decreased crit chance of HS and AoS. Mistweaver also looks better for mythic+ with the change to vivify. Resto druid will probably still be good in raids with their artifact power baked into Flourish.

Every healer has the toolkit to perform well in raids, that's a non issue nowadays. Whether Blizzard succeeds in nailing the numbers equal is pretty much the only question and that's something nobody knows yet.

[Ladyoftheforest]

Every healer has the toolkit to perform well in raids, that's a non issue nowadays. Whether Blizzard succeeds in nailing the numbers equal is pretty much the only question and that's something nobody knows yet.

My main concern is being sniped. Sometimes you need to ramp up your big heals like HPaladin and DiscPriest (with lag) in live. Somehow I just get frustrated when that happens, but that's partly due to a lack of planned strategy. Alas, we don't take raiding to that kind of level, but it still annoys me when it happens. You can be a good healer and sit at the bottom of the healers and that just feels bad.

[Puupi]

My main concern is being sniped. Sometimes you need to ramp up your big heals like HPaladin and DiscPriest (with lag) in live. Somehow I just get frustrated when that happens, but that's partly due to a lack of planned strategy. Alas, we don't take raiding to that kind of level, but it still annoys me when it happens. You can be a good healer and sit at the bottom of the healers and that just feels bad.

Usually content where sniping is a problem is content you shouldn't be too worried about anyway.

[Ladyoftheforest]

Usually content where sniping is a problem is content you shouldn't be too worried about anyway.

Tell that to my competitive side

Anyway, time for some Taliesin!

[Atharaxie]

In BfA, atonement isn't scaling anymore with mastery, it's capped at 40%....which is like ~half of what you have in live currently.

More like 80% off current ?