Haven't DK's received any changes yet?

[Hoeth]

If you want to use 2 Handers, you can also re-roll a Warrior, Paladin or maybe just play Unholy/Blood.



Even with 'big ass crits' it was worse than Dual Wielding. Except for... 2? raid tiers? Where it was semi-viable

Blood is a tank spec. Unholy requires a pet and does very little physical damage. It might as well just stand in the back with the physical weaklings and cast pretty spells. Neither are an acceptable substitute for either of the 2h DPS specs this class has lost, and you know it.

And telling people to "reroll" whenever they point out about something they like being adversely affected isn't helpful.

It is widely accepted that 2h frost did inferior damage for the majority of its existence. People are mourning its loss and hoping for its return based on factors OTHER than raw damage output. A lot of the aesthetic factors and coolness of DK's has been neutered since WRATH. Good for you if the things you like have remained, Blizzard seems to feel similarly. But more and more of the factors that drew some of us to DKs in the first place have been gutted or flat out removed, and one can only make ones feelings known to Blizzard (and yes I realize doing that here is pointless) or move on. Don't interject your own biases, or be an asshole, to those that choose to do the former.

[Mercane]

Blood is a tank spec. Unholy requires a pet and does very little physical damage. It might as well just stand in the back with the physical weaklings and cast pretty spells. Neither are an acceptable substitute for either of the 2h DPS specs this class has lost, and you know it.

And telling people to "reroll" whenever they point out about something they like being adversely affected isn't helpful.

It is widely accepted that 2h frost did inferior damage for the majority of its existence. People are mourning its loss and hoping for its return based on factors OTHER than raw damage output. A lot of the aesthetic factors and coolness of DK's has been neutered since WRATH. Good for you if the things you like have remained, Blizzard seems to feel similarly. But more and more of the factors that drew some of us to DKs in the first place have been gutted or flat out removed, and one can only make ones feelings known to Blizzard (and yes I realize doing that here is pointless) or move on. Don't interject your own biases, or be an asshole, to those that choose to do the former.

I was responding to this:

If you want to dual wield, you can always reroll a rogue or a shaman or something.

Classes and Specs are balanced around their output and whatever Blizzard imagines their 'class fantasy/theme' to be. I'm sure there are tons of players that have gripes with their chosen spec, and often look back at times where they felt it was 'perfect'. Two Hand Frost is gone because it made properly balancing the spec a pain in the ass, and Frost suffered greatly because of it.

I really don't understand the complaints about Unholy's pet management, because it's pretty non-existent outside of a stun and another grip. 99% of Unholy's pet management is macroing /pet attack to your basic rotational abilities.

[Deleted]

If you want to use 2 Handers, you can also re-roll a Warrior, Paladin or maybe just play Unholy/Blood.

That's what i actually did since i hate dual wielding on dk:s with a great passion and being tired with wound mechanic i never liked.Hope you enjoy your toothpicks tought

[Hctaz]

I am very worried about Unholy. The spec is going to be very, very boring and slow without Apocalypse, Double Doom and Scourge of Worlds.
And Apocalypse became a massive part of the class fantasy, providing a shorter cooldown burst damage version of Army of the Dead.

I don't enjoy Unholy that much, so my feedback could be off but: Fuck yeah, you're right. Army of the Dead is such an annoying ability. I hated having to use it in the middle of the fight with the Tomb of Sargeras tier set bonus. It's just a cumbersome ability. It felt really epic in Wrath when you first got it (if you were playing back then), but you quickly realized that it was just a very flash ability you'd use once per fight at the very start. It eats up SO much of your resources, and the ghouls come out staggered. It doesn't interact with your spec at all. Apocalypse just needs to replace AotD in my opinion. It actually has some kind of interaction with the wounds, it feels very visceral since it's a tangible attack, and it doesn't cost you runes to use. It's only resource cost is the wounds you have on your target.

[Lady Velvet]

I sure hope the Festering Wound system doesn't make it to live... it still exists in the beta, but I hope they'll change it.
Festering Wound system is so boring! That's why most prefer Frost over Unholy in Legion.

[Nemesquish]

I sure hope the Festering Wound system doesn't make it to live... it still exists in the beta, but I hope they'll change it.
Festering Wound system is so boring! That's why most prefer Frost over Unholy in Legion.

While its true the system does suck, Most people are going to play whatever is better, NH had a ton of Frost Dks due to helm being busted, ToS had 10x as many Unholy Dks than Frost due to it being much better, now Frost is better, so more Frost players.

They could leave everything the same and 85% of the raiding DK population will be whatever spec is better (Unless their within like 2-3%)

[Lady Velvet]

While its true the system does suck, Most people are going to play whatever is better, NH had a ton of Frost Dks due to helm being busted, ToS had 10x as many Unholy Dks than Frost due to it being much better, now Frost is better, so more Frost players.

They could leave everything the same and 85% of the raiding DK population will be whatever spec is better (Unless their within like 2-3%)

Totes...

But didn't they say they removed the condition that made Obliterate and Scourge Strike hit harder when the target has both diseases because it felt boring and unneeded? Then why go and make the very same thing for Unholy except that they replaced the diseases with Festering Wounds...

[Nemesquish]

Totes...

But didn't they say they removed the condition that made Obliterate and Scourge Strike hit harder when the target has both diseases because it felt boring and unneeded? Then why go and make the very same thing for Unholy except that they replaced the diseases with Festering Wounds...

Yea, the DK development/QA team has been terrible for a very time, and I do very much miss the needing 2 diseases for Oblit =(

I just hate the whole idea of making less and less to make it "easier". Nothing was hard about keeping up 2 diseases for Frost, even Shadow plague didnt do much damage. It caused your Obliterate to hit 12.5% harder...Nothing hard to understand about that...Put up a low damage dot to do 12% more damage on your hardest hitting attack...Seems pretty simple to me.

[Adlian]

Imagine them replacing Scourge Strike with Clawing Shadows and putting a talent that makes your auto attacks + festering strike having a 30y range too.

Also Festering Strike should apply a static amount of wounds (if they keep that mechanic in the game). Hate the rng part of it.

[Nemesquish]

Imagine them replacing Scourge Strike with Clawing Shadows and putting a talent that makes your auto attacks + festering strike having a 30y range too.

Would probably make alot of people happy.

I'm just waiting for my Frost dk changes.

[Lady Velvet]

Imagine them replacing Scourge Strike with Clawing Shadows and putting a talent that makes your auto attacks + festering strike having a 30y range too.

Also Festering Strike should apply a static amount of wounds (if they keep that mechanic in the game). Hate the rng part of it.

That'll just make Unholy a ranged spec...

[Cosmic Janitor]

That'll just make Unholy a ranged spec...

It's already a wet noodle spec that does most of it's damage with pets, dots and spells. Of the two remaining melee abilities you can even make one a pseudo ranged spell as well. The only melee thing about the spec is festering strike and that the spec still being somewhat balanced around auto attacks (don't get me started on their love of auto attacks..) which only comes down to numbers. Especially as a 2h spec it fails spectacularily imho, because the giant ass weapon is just for show..

[Nemesquish]

well, he didnt say make the spec revolve around it, he said make a talent, So you can play it as range if you want. Put it on the 110 tier, and make else powerful enough to give choice to the tier

[Spamor]

So after leveling to 120 as Unholy on Beta, to keep it short the spec is rubbish.

Feels like there is no interaction between any spells or abilities (DC giving 10 energy to the ghoul....).
"Bursting" Wounds without Apo feels horrible. Trying to trigger Soulreaper is such a pain on beta, pool ~4 runes get soulreaper up jk rnd stun 45 sec cd wasted...
DC costing 45 rp is too much, ~4,5 runes for one dc and the missing proc rate buff from apo for suddendoom makes it rly rar.

Army dmg is nice, not that it matters atm, but the 10 min cd is way to long should be 5 mins. The AI of Gargoyle and All will Serve is trash, the archer standing around afk even after hammering pet attack was fun to watch.

GCD-Change changed nothing for unholy <.<

[Tanthoris]

Still waiting for those DK changes blizz mentioned a week ago to actually come to beta, till then pretty much no point in even looking at the dps specs for DK on beta.

[Deleted]

Still waiting for those DK changes blizz mentioned a week ago to actually come to beta, till then pretty much no point in even looking at the dps specs for DK on beta.

When will be released?

[Super Kami Dende]

They should keep Frost mostly how it is. It's enjoyable currently.

I couldn't give a fuck about Unholy. Unless they completely overhaul how it plays it can stay completely unplayed by myself. Even being higher DPS couldn't make we want to deal with that shitshow. Kind of ass that the 2H DPS spec of DK has to be a shitty Pet Spec as well.

2H Frost pls Blizz.

[Cosmic Janitor]

When will be released?

No ETA known. They said frost, unholy and prot warrior will receive some more extensive changes. If that means complete overhaul or the barebones drop of the artifact abilities somewhere into the talent tree is unknown. If it is the later, you can expect stuff like sindy and apoc being put in the last tier somewhere, at least if you compare how other specs got theirs implemented.

[Frolk]

perma Valkyr, buffed clawing shadows, ranged varient of Festring strike.

*crosses fingers*

[Cosmic Janitor]

Not sure if I already stated that, but I'd be happy if they nerf the shit out of abomination or let glyphs overwrite it. The tier is clearly not ment for dps yet it is a significant aoe dps increase, especially in scenarios with spread out targets (read: m+).

2H frost would be sweet. I even have an idea how they could fix part of the scaling issue: Imho a 2h weapon should be able to carry a second (rune) enchant. Maybe for frost only if that really is an issue, but the weapon already takes up two slots in the interface, can't be that hard to make that 2nd slot also targetable. That would even be more in tune with the original DK fantasy of runes. A 2H weapon would have more space to scribble stuff on them .

That obviously would put DW in a worse spot though. I had hoped they would keep the trend of dual wielding weapons coming by default as a pair, but sadly they didn't use that. If they had done that they could have streamlined the gearing aspect in on of the more annoying parts. The overwhelming majority of weapons already comes in only 1 speed and proccs beeing ppm based also has eliminated so much choice, they could just go the rest of the way and just make the dual wield part just a visual feature. That way you could als bring both closer without putting dw in a bad place for having to farm 2 weapons.