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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Its an attempt to kill/lower split raiding in order to slow down everything, specifically progression.

    For some reason they are trying to change WoW into demographics of LoL/Dota/CS/Overwatch, quick max 1h gameplays at tops and apparently trying to hinder top guilds will lead to that.

    They are just masking it as a change to "Appeal to the community that got betrayed by the big bad mythic guilds", despite 99% was never affected by this problem.
    That was never the actual reason, it doesn't stop split raiding at all, its just a face for another reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    ^^^ This person gets it...
    They shouldn't continuously ask for feedback if they don't want it then

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by TotalSyn View Post
    That is a leading question. The only answer to that can be no.
    I respectfully disagree. E.g. obviously in politics, the answer is most often yes.

  3. #123
    I think they need to ease up on the trading restrictions, there's no way their rebalanced stat system will be perfect; you will still run into ilvl 'upgrades' that you don't actually want because they aren't good for you yet you can't trade them to anyone else which is kind of silly. If they are worried about the social ramifications of being able to trade ilvl upgrades there's no point in worrying about it, people already ask you if you need stuff in pugs all the time when it drops. It's not like it's going to somehow make it worse, it's already a standard trend and people usually aren't bothered by it and will politely decline if they want the item for themselves.

  4. #124
    Deleted
    No they shouldnt. And they dont. They do whatever they think is best for the game.

    I thought conspiracy theories was banned from this site?

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephn View Post
    I think they need to ease up on the trading restrictions, there's no way their rebalanced stat system will be perfect; you will still run into ilvl 'upgrades' that you don't actually want because they aren't good for you yet you can't trade them to anyone else which is kind of silly. If they are worried about the social ramifications of being able to trade ilvl upgrades there's no point in worrying about it, people already ask you if you need stuff in pugs all the time when it drops. It's not like it's going to somehow make it worse, it's already a standard trend and people usually aren't bothered by it and will politely decline if they want the item for themselves.
    The trading restrictions are there for a reason: without them, nothing will change. Guilds will simply force people to give the loot to whomever the loot council or w/e decided, or risk being removed from the guild/raid.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgodeus View Post
    The trading restrictions are there for a reason: without them, nothing will change. Guilds will simply force people to give the loot to whomever the loot council or w/e decided, or risk being removed from the guild/raid.
    I don't think they need to be removed but not being able to trade something that is +5 ilvls is too harsh, thinking that the stat rebalance will make stuff within 5 ilvls always an upgrade is some kind of pipe dream. There should be a 5-10 ilvl waiver for this.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    I respectfully disagree. E.g. obviously in politics, the answer is most often yes.
    Sure, ignore my point. Troll confirmed.
    Here is something to believe in!

  8. #128
    I think this is a great change. It will empower those in a guild without close ties to the leaders - it will indirectly nerf those, who for years have been able to gain more and better loot by social engineering.

    In BfA, we’ll finally be able to see who’s good at their class - and who were just given better loot and could therefore perform better.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Shagunda View Post
    I'm going to take you as an example here if I may... master loot in legion (that's over 2 years now?) has been usable only by guild groups (+80% team members in the same guild). I would 100% agree to take away master loot for pugs. it's always been one big ninjalooting shitfest. they're just taking it away for guilds though. you know, those long term engagements people [B]freely[B] make to make friends and/or do content more efficiently. many mythic raiders are not happy that their freedom to handle loot their way is being taken away because some people cannot take the responsability
    I am not quite understanding you here. Your first sentence is correct and states that Master Loot is only available if the group is 80% guild members, but then you say "I would 100% agree to take away master loot for pugs. it's always been one big ninjalooting shitfest. they're just taking it away for guilds though." How are they taking it away "only from guilds" when master loot ONLY exists in guilds? Where else should they take it from?

  10. #130
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    The ML was just an example, I also gave nerfs and TF as other examples.
    The point is more general: If you were the game designer, would you cater to (false) community beliefs even if the data you had pointed the other way?

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    from the dev Q&A:

    This change wasn't made to stop high end split raids. That's something the team wants to do, but that wasn't the point of this change.

    There is more personal agency and control as an individual of your fate. [with PL]

    Group and Master Loot puts players at the mercy of others, often in ways that aren't fair.

    [with ML] When you kill a boss, it isn't about if there is something on the corpse that you want, but if someone is going to give you that loot. It disconnects the reward from killing the boss.
    Ok, so the logic here I guess is, even if you are in a guild, you might want to have more personal control over your loot than to be at the mercy of your guild members. Although you don't really have control, either something drops or it doesn't. So it's more like, now it's in the hand of fate, instead of in the hand of a guild master, who might not like you, or who might prefer someone else above you.

    I can really understand this. If Master Loot is gone, I can't really say I'll miss it, other than maybe the thrill of rolling for loot every now and then, but that is something I can get in LFR nowadays, when someone doesn't need an item.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Brown View Post
    How do you determine whether it is wrong?

    Because it was working fine when the games had 12millions of players and all of sudden, it's not the way to go ? 15 years laters.

    Just fuckin LOL

    I'm sure those new guys ( Ion and fnky bunch) don't even play that fucking game

  12. #132
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Brown View Post
    Assuming that it's true that "many" people complaining about this issue aren't in a raiding guild, why does their opinion hold no value? The people who aren't in an organised raiding guild have to rely on PUGs even more and that's where Master Loot abuse is most likely to happen.
    You're a prime example of the same argument being done. You're talking about something you don't know. You can't use Master Loot in a PUG. 80% of the group has to be from the same guild as the RL in order to set up master loot, which is called guild master loot (it's not a PUG group anymore is it?). That was a fantastic way of getting a point proven, that people who are not in environments where ML is used giving their opinion on ML.

    Addressing a point made somewhere else. If you join a guild group as PUG and you notice that the loot is set to ML: 1) Speak up and ask about it and, if you don't get an answer or you don't like it, 2) LEAVE. It's your own responsibility to handle yourself in game.
    Last edited by mmoc62a721aa86; 2018-05-01 at 11:30 AM.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Softbottom View Post
    The change is pretty simple - They want to kill split raiding and don't want anymore loot tickets of people complaining about this or that regarding loot. Making masterloot disappear fixes both of these problems.
    This won't kill splitraiding and why do they want to do that? It's not a practice that involves more than a few people and hardly anything that afftects the enjoyment of the game for the average player. All this does is making mythic raiding more about RNG than actuall decision and it'll no doubt raise the bar for entry, maing even less people intrested in mythic raiding.

    This change adds nothing positive to the game at all. It fixes nothing while adding more discontent and more problems. It's quite litteraly stupid, in every way.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    This won't kill splitraiding and why do they want to do that? It's not a practice that involves more than a few people and hardly anything that afftects the enjoyment of the game for the average player. All this does is making mythic raiding more about RNG than actuall decision and it'll no doubt raise the bar for entry, maing even less people intrested in mythic raiding.

    This change adds nothing positive to the game at all. It fixes nothing while adding more discontent and more problems. It's quite litteraly stupid, in every way.
    I'm looking forward to people winning an item one week, then the same item the next week but 5 ilvls higher that they can't trade.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    I'm looking forward to people winning an item one week, then the same item the next week but 5 ilvls higher that they can't trade.
    Yes, it's beyond stupid. Or the healers getting every loot there is for 5-6 weeks straight while your DPS gets nothing meaning your raid is stuck becuase of RNG.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Yes, it's beyond stupid. Or the healers getting every loot there is for 5-6 weeks straight while your DPS gets nothing meaning your raid is stuck becuase of RNG.
    The best part will be when people ironically feel entitled to this loot and ask for changes to personal loot.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Brown View Post
    Ok, so the logic here I guess is, even if you are in a guild, you might want to have more personal control over your loot than to be at the mercy of your guild members. Although you don't really have control, either something drops or it doesn't. So it's more like, now it's in the hand of fate, instead of in the hand of a guild master, who might not like you, or who might prefer someone else above you.

    I can really understand this. If Master Loot is gone, I can't really say I'll miss it, other than maybe the thrill of rolling for loot every now and then, but that is something I can get in LFR nowadays, when someone doesn't need an item.
    I don't think it will be the tectonic shift people make it out to be.
    I do think it will lead to more guild loot drama though. In many guilds the authority of loot distribution was delegated to a prearranged loot council. Now it will all be on the shoulders of the individual that receives the piece to handle the potential pressure.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    So this came up: is Blizzard forcing personal loot in raids, just to appease the perception by a part of the community that master loot is a tool used by guilds to screw over raiders?
    This is not just a perception. ML *is* predominantly a tool used by people to screw over other people. ML is used as such a tool in 99 out of 100 cases. Welcome to real world. They are right about that.

    Forcing PL everywhere is good. The only thing they might reconsider is maybe keep ML as an option for mythic raids and only force PL from heroic all the way down.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    This is not just a perception. ML *is* predominantly a tool used by people to screw over other people. ML is used as such a tool in 99 out of 100 cases. Welcome to real world. They are right about that.
    .
    Where did you get those numbers?

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    The best part will be when people ironically feel entitled to this loot and ask for changes to personal loot.
    I don't know about that but loot was a tool my guild used to clear content. The raiders that could really use the items well got the items first so that we did not have to stay on the same boss for weeks.

    That will no longer be possible to the same extent and the frustration of being stuck and there is nothing you can do about it will most likely drive people to leave. On the other side of things, it'll mean that new people (trials if you will) will not get the chance to try the earlier bosses as often as they used to and the barrier for entry will be much harder to pass making mythic raiding even harder to get into.

    I just don't see anything positive with this change. Nothing.

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