Our Final Stand - Death Knights in BFA

[Raziella]

For class fantasy if you want to play as Arthas like in warcraft 3 you should play Unholy, just look at his spell list: Deathcoil, Unholy Aura, Death pact, and Animate Dead.

As the Lich King he gained more power and used more frost skills. But he obviously is more a mix between all specs. People confusing that the lich king was a frost 2-hander is just because of his looks, it's only because he was sitting on that damn frozen throne for years so he looked frozen.

Yeah... he lived on a giant frozen throne in a giant frozen wasteland and carried a gigantic 2 handed sword... exactly the point. It doesn't matter if maybe if he lived in Stranglethorn instead he'd have worn a Hawaiian shirt and fought with a fishing pole, because that's not what happened.

He didn't have a ghoul pet and feel like so much of a plague knight.

[krl]

Out of respect for the true Lich King, you shall not mimic him by wielding a 2H as Frost.

[Reydan]

Yeah... he lived on a giant frozen throne in a giant frozen wasteland and carried a gigantic 2 handed sword... exactly the point. It doesn't matter if maybe if he lived in Stranglethorn instead he'd have worn a Hawaiian shirt and fought with a fishing pole, because that's not what happened.

He didn't have a ghoul pet and feel like so much of a plague knight.

What a stupid reply, you probably didn't play Warcraft 3. Because Arthas raised ghouls, used Death Coil, and had Unholy aura. Maybe read my post better next time when you reply.

He didn't live on a giant Frozen throne yet because he wasn't a lich king back then, now was he? So that's not exactly the point, the exact point is in Warcraft 3 he was more Unholy than anything else. Maybe don't reply at all if you make a shit post like that.

[Ophenia]

Not playing my DK that much but I have to agree, 2-handed was feeling better for Frost. I don't really have the feeling to "obliterate" anything with toothpicks. And how on earth am I supposed to "Frostscythe" stuff with something that doesn't even barely look like a scythe ?

Regarding the races that's a shame, but unfortunately Blizzard has reached the peak of laziness where they don't want to adapt anything.
Of course they could prevent DK to earn the transmog set.
Of course they could just make allied races start at 55 (while simultaneously making Vanilla pexing 1-80 instead of 1-60), nobody here enjoys the questing lvl 20-55 anyway
If that's a lore problem, they could just create a 3-quests questline where your character is raised from the dead in Legion's context if it's an Allied Race...

Allied races were clearly the path of laziness, and i'm sad that we were actually right.

[SirBeef]

Shafted on New Races Every Expansion
We are no longer the 'new' flavor of the month class

Finally. DK's have been the FotM class ever since. They have been the new HotS hero the Blizzard forgot to nerf back to the rest of the crowd.

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Not playing my DK that much but I have to agree, 2-handed was feeling better for Frost. I don't really have the feeling to "obliterate" anything with toothpicks. And how on earth am I supposed to "Frostscythe" stuff with something that doesn't even barely look like a scythe ?

Regarding the races that's a shame, but unfortunately Blizzard has reached the peak of laziness where they don't want to adapt anything.
Of course they could prevent DK to earn the transmog set.
Of course they could just make allied races start at 55 (while simultaneously making Vanilla pexing 1-80 instead of 1-60), nobody here enjoys the questing lvl 20-55 anyway
If that's a lore problem, they could just create a 3-quests questline where your character is raised from the dead in Legion's context if it's an Allied Race...

Allied races were clearly the path of laziness, and i'm sad that we were actually right.

I'd rather them do this than the old, make new leveling zones just for the sake of new races. Yeah they could add them to current starting zones but then you'd be here complaining about them being lazy. I'll guarantee we will be getting new races at some point. Allied races gives us sub-classes with meaning and value.

[Eats Compost]

Honestly, I think Blizzard holding back on new races as DKs is just a reflection of their regret on making them available to every race originally. Death Knights had an aesthetic and theme very closely tied to a few of specific races, characters and places, but they opened a massive floodgate and botched that during Wrath. Keeping them away from new races going forward is damage control, and I guarantee that they've kicked themselves in the past for not restricting it to Human/Dwarf/Blood Elf/Undead.

Demon Hunters are how they wish they handled it; an extremely small pool of races with a relatively tightly-controlled aesthetic. They already opened Pandora's box on DKs, but at least they're trying to keep timelines and geography straight.

The loss of 2h frost is an absolute disgrace, though.

[Alextros]

About every 2H frost post - Why do you want to go back to share weapons with the largest weapon group? The 1handed market is quite smaller, seeing as you got WW, Enhancement and Outlaw in there as your only competition, compared to Unholy, Arms, Fury (Who need two weapons), Retribution, and Feral/Survival to an extent with polearms.

[Raziella]

What a stupid reply, you probably didn't play Warcraft 3. Because Arthas raised ghouls, used Death Coil, and had Unholy aura. Maybe read my post better next time when you reply.

He didn't live on a giant Frozen throne yet because he wasn't a lich king back then, now was he? So that's not exactly the point, the exact point is in Warcraft 3 he was more Unholy than anything else. Maybe don't reply at all if you make a shit post like that.

I think, "did he duel wield?" is more the point. Because it's the point of the topic. Which you keep avoiding.

[Claymore]

In regards to new Races, I would argue that *most* don't make sense. Dark Irons and the Zandalari, however, make some sense, historically speaking.

The only real issue with the Dark Irons is that "fire" is a *HUGE* part of their aesthetic design. It's even in their hair and beards, a slight smoldering appearance. That literally is not compatible with Death Knights. Now, if they disabled those effects while playing Death Knights? I think that's a pretty fair compromise.

For the Zandalari, if I'm not mistaken, one of the Zandalari already become a Death Knight during Wrath. Either way, it's totally a non-issue. The only thing I would say is that perhaps their "jewelry" should be modified, instead of being bright gold, to be either frost-rimed silver, or even black or dark-green saronite. Or just remove the gold entirely, since those Trolls in Northrend definitely have no connection to the riches of the Zandalari Empire.

As for 2hand Frost, it absolutely needs to be brought back. Personally, I think dual-wielding should be removed entirely, as it never really "fit" the class anyway, and there are more than enough DW'ing classes (having said that, I'd appreciate 1hand-Fury Warriors making a comeback, as well). As for how that impacts the now-obsolete Artifact, just scale their size up to 2hand-size, make it Frostmourne (which it should have been from the very beginning), and go to town.

[Goldielocks]

Shafted on New Races Every Expansion
We are no longer the 'new' flavor of the month class, we have been in this game going on over a decade now but still it seems whenever there are new races added to the game Death Knights are always forgotten.

No one is asking for every race to be able to roll every class but there are certainly good cases to be made for some of the Allied Races especially Void Elves, Dark Iron Dwarfs, and Zandalari Trolls. Truth be told there is absolutely nothing from a LORE perspective that is stopping any of these new races from being raised as Death Knights or even Pandaren. Before you could argue that the Pandaren were hidden away on Pandaria during Arthas' terror, but what about now since we have been raising new armies of DKs for the entirety of Legion? What is stopping us from taking one of these new dead Void Elvs and turning them into a DK knight before our Artifacts are stripped? You can even find a Pandaren DK follower that was added in during Warlords of Draenor.

Completely disagree here. DKs are too complicated to "just add new race options."

1) Allied Races are new. Their premise revolves around starting at level 20. DKs start at a higher level. There's no point in having these two together right now. The devs even said this is true. Eventually they will come, but for now Allied races and hero classes are like oil and water.

2) Yes and no that there's no lore stopping them from being made. Yes that nothing contradicts new DKs being made, but no in that this lore needs to be put into the game to actually make sense. Every DK still starts out during Wrath. That means no introduced race after Wrath would ever be a DK. Not yet. Blizzard would have to spend dev time remaking the DK starting zone to account for all of these changes. That's why it's taking time. They'd rather spend efforts on current content right now.

3) Void Elves should not be Death Knights. It makes absolutely no sense. They get warped by the Void and then warped by necromancy? What? We should keep adding shit on. Then they get warped by a Demon soul to become this super meta hybrid Undead Demon Hunter.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'm sure that any patch now will bring with it the revamped DK starting experience, using assets and story from the Order Hall which makes it so that CURRENT DK's raise fallen champions (of all races) rather than the time machine museum that is the original introduction.

[alt-ithist]

Completely disagree here. DKs are too complicated to "just add new race options."

1) Allied Races are new. Their premise revolves around starting at level 20. DKs start at a higher level. There's no point in having these two together right now. The devs even said this is true. Eventually they will come, but for now Allied races and hero classes are like oil and water.

2) Yes and no that there's no lore stopping them from being made. Yes that nothing contradicts new DKs being made, but no in that this lore needs to be put into the game to actually make sense. Every DK still starts out during Wrath. That means no introduced race after Wrath would ever be a DK. Not yet. Blizzard would have to spend dev time remaking the DK starting zone to account for all of these changes. That's why it's taking time. They'd rather spend efforts on current content right now.

3) Void Elves should not be Death Knights. It makes absolutely no sense. They get warped by the Void and then warped by necromancy? What? We should keep adding shit on. Then they get warped by a Demon soul to become this super meta hybrid Undead Demon Hunter.

I do agree with most of the points you make except the notion new DKs can’t be made with new races. All it would take is for Blizzard to create a new scenario where Darion empowered by the new Lich King raise a dead member of any given race, old or new as a new death knight in the Acherus. Then simply send them to fight as a representative of the ebon blade for the alliance/horde. It wouldn’t even take new assets to make and new DKs of the old races would get to pick, either hero class with long intro, or regular class with short intro. New races DK wouldn’t get the option.

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I'm sure that any patch now will bring with it the revamped DK starting experience, using assets and story from the Order Hall which makes it so that CURRENT DK's raise fallen champions (of all races) rather than the time machine museum that is the original introduction.

You beat me to it and in so much fewer words

[The Stormbringer]

A VE DK does not make sense, lol.
Not until there's a new generation of DKs trained by Bolvar's Scourge (A new starting zone for DKs) which.. Yunno I'm pretty positive will happen sometime soon, actually.

What about the new generation of DKs being trained by Acherus and the Knights of the Ebon Blade? They're in your Order Hall... you get an NPC who trains up new DKs to help attend missions with your followers. Hell, you the PC personally raises three new DKs, as well as reviving another one that dies for your Four Horsemen. Why is adding new races such a stretch? You just have them skip the entire starting zone.

[kaintk]

lol stop with the lore not working with dk and new race, blablabla... ;p

blizzard are just too lazy to make it work with new race, that's all (they would have to make new skin color and eyes to go with new race)

they only have to remove the 110 reward with the set transmog if you do a dk with new race, that's all

[Raziella]

no, he did also not weild a axe or any other weapon then a sword, so better restrict that as well.

What a idiotic argument

There's a world of difference between a 2h axe and dual wielding. Blizz obviously agrees, as all 2H weapons are interchangeable.

If they really wanted a dual wield spec, it probably would have been better received giving it to Unholy, which was the spec that least fit the traditional class fantasy in the first place, even if it was just a simple color scheme. At least after they gave the perma-pet, and started differentiating the specs.
Frost would have felt more accurate as a "traditional" DK, and Unholy fit different themes better.

But, you're clearly more into insults than actually thinking about things, and why people care about this.

[Ozzyorcborne]

TBH at the very least the Dark Iron and the Zandalari should be Death knights. They were around during the scourge invasion.

[Reydan]

I think, "did he duel wield?" is more the point. Because it's the point of the topic. Which you keep avoiding.

I don't avoid anything, I called you out about the Death Knight class fantasy for a 2 handed spec matching Arthas. I told you that Unholy matches that class fantasy, I am not going to tell you again why that is.

[Stardrift]

What about the new generation of DKs being trained by Acherus and the Knights of the Ebon Blade? They're in your Order Hall... you get an NPC who trains up new DKs to help attend missions with your followers. Hell, you the PC personally raises three new DKs, as well as reviving another one that dies for your Four Horsemen. Why is adding new races such a stretch? You just have them skip the entire starting zone.

Yea try and make sense of that when you've got panda DKs running around the scarlet enclave in WoTLK DK's starter zone.
Or, go fully read what I said and suggested.

[The Stormbringer]

Yea try and make sense of that when you've got panda DKs running around the scarlet enclave in WoTLK DK's starter zone.
Or, go fully read what I said and suggested.

Or, go fully read what I said and suggested.

You just have them skip the entire starting zone.

[Kemsa]

i hated that artifacts restricted weapon classes but also the specs tied to a certain weapon, i still remember using one handed dualW with a fury warrior, or a two handed frost as dps or the old two handed shaman. Those were the days were you chose your weapon for your spec, not your spec choses your weapon for you.