Because your assumption of what I am arguing, you can't follow the clear logic. Actually read and respond to what is said not what you expect is said.
I am better than you at it and that's really all that matters. Except a game that depends on a player base doesn't do well by alienating part of that base and belittling their feelings. It is pointing out that you are oversimplifying the situation.Perhaps not an apt comparison, but that doesn't change the fact that you don't always get what you want. It's also not a company's job to give in to each whim of its consumer-base, especially when they feel as though the game already contains what people want; i.e. Blood Elves being available to play on the Horde. That's my argument. You keep using this word logic like it's your weapon, and I don't think you know what it means. You fail to accurately use it to your advantage over and over and over. It's really quite amusing.
Let me repeat myself: You don't always get what you want, even when you're paying for it. Period.
That doesn't make it "fair." You are confusing fact with fair. Facts don't need to be fair. Just because something is "Factual" doesn't make it fair. You seem not to actually address any argument pose to you but rather just put down those that argue against you asserting YOUR superiority in your stance. So again, how is it "fair" to the Alliance to have given Blood Elves to the Horde? Saying "that's how it was written" doesn't answer the question asked. It is like you asking "How is it fair I don't have a toy?" and I answer "Because I gave it to someone else." It doesn't actually answer the question. I could ask you "How is it unfair to the Horde to give Alliance High Elves?" and you answer because "Horde had Blood elves first" (essentially that's the answer or Horde had them first) ... that doesn't make it unfair.How was it fair? Because that's how the story was written. That's how the game was designed. The lore dictated that 99% of High Elves converted to being Blood Elves, and through various injustices, they joined the Horde. Is that automatically unfair in your mind? I don't have the victim mentality, but don't get me wrong, taking a race the Horde has had for 10+ years and giving it to the Alliance players purely because they want isn't exactly an upstanding thing to do. But you wouldn't know much about that, you don't think faction identity is real. We're settled on that matter, and I don't expect you to understand. All things shouldn't be fair, the same way you don't always get what you want. That's life. But when someone proposes it isn't fair that they don't get them without consideration to who it would affect if they did get them, I'll happily throw that word back at them. Besides, they can always play Horde. It's not Blizzard's fault they're too proud of their Alliance faction identity to play the opposite faction, now is it?
The reason I stated faction identity doesn't exist is the only "evidence" of the existence is Blizzard's claim it does. When I play the game, I don't feel different playing Alliance or Horde. Just because they "look" different doesn't make them actually different. That's faction "appearance" not faction "identity" ... it is like saying my identity is red because I have a red shirt on.
I honestly don't. I just don't like people I call "peacocks" ... all flash, no substance in their arguments.Except... we did win. I don't see the High Elves being given to the Alliance any time soon. Chalk that one up to a victory, ladies and gentlemen. I myself didn't win, but Blizzard ruled in my favor. For me, that's a W. Sorry you disagree. It's almost like you disagree with everything I say because of a personal vendetta you have against me. Hmm... curious, indeed.
So you get to do it and I have to accept it and not comment, but you feel you are in a position to comment on mine? I didn't start putting you down until you shown no desire but to put me down. You started it, I treating you as you have treated me. I have no vendetta against you, but I will be damned if I let your ignorance go unchallenged.You're in no place to judge my behavior. Apply to be a moderator if you want to deem my words acceptable or not. Until then, feel free to speak your opinion about me or ignore me. But you passing judgement on my statements in this thread is about as inconsequential as a breadcrumb under my boot.
How does punishing me for an eye-for-eye style behavior line up with your "logic" about my comparison to not getting everything you want in life? You realize there's no logic in telling me I have put down everyone I've argued against while you continue to put me down and make lame arguments against everyone you disagree with, right? Your vendetta against me is really growing stale. You need new material, or just stop. I recommend the latter.
Notice how I reply to you, I actually address what you stated ... you don't care to because in your mind you "won" and don't actually care for "debate." You don't care to actually have the argument because no argument will convince you. Even in this topic, I admitted on the Void Elf Tentacles I see how people call them that, I just don't seem them as tentacles ... I admit that I understand the opposing side, you haven't done that.
I am sorry, the only "vendetta" here is you against people who want Helves and I am not letting you have free range against them. Also, given that I have had people tell me your behavior is similar in other topics ... I don't think the problem is with me.
Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-02 at 11:48 PM.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
–The Sith Code
You High Elfers aren't looking at this from a marketing stand point. If alliance gets High Elves then the Horde must get a counter part. The alliance would essentially get a copy paste of a Horde race while the Horde gets a new skin of an existing race??? Not to mention the fact that you already got Thalasian elves with Velves.
Don't tell me some BS reason that Helves would be different than belves because they're more wild, don't have access to the sunwell or w/e. Tattoos also don't count as they're not a physiological difference. Kul'Tirans being humans is also not en excuse as Kul'Tirans are physically different from regular humans due to their environment and life style.
So I ask you again, how could you possible justify snubbing the alliance with nothing original while the horde at least gets a new skin for an Allied race.
If Kael'thas never named changed his race then this whole debate would have no traction.
Last edited by Varx; 2018-05-02 at 11:51 PM.
You're arguing with me and my opinion that the Alliance shouldn't get High Elves, nothing more. That's how this started. You started using words like "bullshit" and "logic" like a rapid fire cannon, it's backfired multiple times. You've done nothing but move goalposts since you apparently are running low on juice. Now, you're basically derailing the thread because you have a personal vendetta against me and my opinion.
You don't really do anything well, honestly. Please provide an example where you've done something well, because I've yet to see it. This debate has gone of for ten years. It deserves an end, honestly. I can over simplify this stupid subject if I'd like. It's not a complicated situation to begin with. They want something Blizzard has repeatedly told them they can't have. I would ask you to enlighten me on the circuitous nature of this issue, but I'm really not interested in your lies and goal-posting.
You're really losing it here, I can tell. Do you think I wrote the lore for the game or something? I DGAF about how it's fair or unfair that Blizzard wrote the Blood Elves joining the Horde from a lore perspective. That was their decision, and newsflash, I wasn't at that table when that decision was made. What are you on about? Facts don't need to be fair? No shit, Sherlock. Neither do playable races. My point entirely. Jesus, you're starting to annoy me more than anything with your psuedo "I don't care" bullshit yet you're here goalposting with the best of these Pro-High Elfers.
Hm, well, for about the fourth time, just because you don't perceive faction identity doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You seem to confuse your perspective with everyone else's. Faction identity exists very much to me. I'm sorry you lack the ability. I guess I'm just better at seeing how people can take pride in something better than you do.
Congratulations, then, no-cock. You've had no flash, and even less substance. Your entire first argument hinged on the word "bullshit". Let me tell ya', that's some real substance there, buddy. I can provide quotes if you'd like to refresh your memory.
I don't care for a debate because there is nothing to debate. We won. Plain and simple. Sorry your personal vendetta has blinded you and you can't see the plain truth.
And please, show me where I said you can't comment about my behavior. I said "feel free to share your opinion or ignore me," but it is a fact you are not in a position to tell me what I'm saying is acceptable or not within these digital walls. Last I checked, you're not a Forum Moderator or my biological parent. So you're only expressing your disapproval of what I'm saying, nothing more. And personally, I don't give two shits what some random forum warrior thinks is acceptable or not. By forum standards, what I'm saying is quite acceptable, it seems.
People talk about me outside of this thread to you? I feel honored.
Nobody talks to me about you. Yikes. I guess you're just boring like that, and full of hot air.
I'm done derailing this wonderful, entertaining thread. It's about time I digress anyway. We've won, and there's nothing left to discuss here.
Actually, it was you who used logic first. And yeah, because I was point out Blizzard's ... not yours ... reasons as bullshit because of their poor logic. They are bullshit. Your only counter was that you agreed with them ... Listen, there are times I agree with bullshit, it doesn't make it less bullshit.
Go back and actually you know read what I typed. You literally spent your first few posts accusing me of being Pro-Helfer when I am not.You don't really do anything well, honestly. Please provide an example where you've done something well, because I've yet to see it. This debate has gone of for ten years. It deserves an end, honestly. I can over simplify this stupid subject if I'd like. It's not a complicated situation to begin with. They want something Blizzard has repeatedly told them they can't have. I would ask you to enlighten me on the circuitous nature of this issue, but I'm really not interested in your lies and goal-posting.
Word Salad here ... I am not goalposting, I am asking you to answer the question asked not the question you want to answer. This is my point, you cannot actually address the argument and now you have the audacity to accuse me of "goalposting" ... you asked how is it fair that Alliance gets High Elves to Horde ... my counter is "why does that matter? They haven't been "fair" in the past." It isn't goalposting.You're really losing it here, I can tell. Do you think I wrote the lore for the game or something? I DGAF about how it's fair or unfair that Blizzard wrote the Blood Elves joining the Horde from a lore perspective. That was their decision, and newsflash, I wasn't at that table when that decision was made. What are you on about? Facts don't need to be fair? No shit, Sherlock. Neither do playable races. My point entirely. Jesus, you're starting to annoy me more than anything with your psuedo "I don't care" bullshit yet you're here goalposting with the best of these Pro-High Elfers.
Or maybe you perceive something that isn't real. It's a figment of your imagination and not actually reality. And just because you take pride in something doesn't mean that something has the trait you assign. You are claiming it exists, I am claiming I don't see it therefor I don't see how it exists, to me it doesn't. I listed the reason why I see it as not existing and your BEST counter was "Doesn't count." And rather than prove it does exist, you post things well identity is "This faction has this race" ... that's literally just a coat of paint on it, that's not an identity.Hm, well, for about the fourth time, just because you don't perceive faction identity doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You seem to confuse your perspective with everyone else's. Faction identity exists very much to me. I'm sorry you lack the ability. I guess I'm just better at seeing how people can take pride in something better than you do.
It's more substance than you have had this entire topic.Congratulations, then, no-cock. You've had no flash, and even less substance. Your entire first argument hinged on the word "bullshit". Let me tell ya', that's some real substance there, buddy. I can provide quotes if you'd like to refresh your memory.
Then why do you keep posting?I don't care for a debate because there is nothing to debate. We won. Plain and simple. Sorry your personal vendetta has blinded you and you can't see the plain truth.
"You're in no place to judge my behavior." You told me not to judge, all I did was comment that you aren't better than those you are complaining about. You basically have put down those arguing against you ... it's pretty much fact given these very posts to me and others in this topic.And please, show me where I said you can't comment about my behavior. I said "feel free to share your opinion or ignore me," but it is a fact you are not in a position to tell me what I'm saying is acceptable or not within these digital walls. Last I checked, you're not a Forum Moderator or my biological parent. So you're only expressing your disapproval of what I'm saying, nothing more. And personally, I don't give two shits what some random forum warrior thinks is acceptable or not. By forum standards, what I'm saying is quite acceptable, it seems.
Actually, in this thread. They quoted a reply to me.People talk about me outside of this thread to you? I feel honored.
Or maybe, unlike you, I am actually addressing what's posed to me and not strutting around like I won a subjective debate.Nobody talks to me about you. Yikes. I guess you're just boring like that, and full of hot air.
You really haven't won anything. Not this topic, not this debate ... not anything.I'm done derailing this wonderful, entertaining thread. It's about time I digress anyway. We've won, and there's nothing left to discuss here.
- - - Updated - - -
Honestly, it isn't worth it to go into that much effort. I am pointing out that the argument of "marketing" could be used both ways. I could argue think of how much it benefits a company to see they listen to their fans and are willing to work with them to give them something. Marketing isn't a good argument because you can market pretty much anything if you do it right.
Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-03 at 01:08 AM.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
–The Sith Code
Which is fine. The Alliance player base just needs to be mature enough to accept that their version will remain as NPC's since the playable version belongs to the Horde, simple as that. You can't expect to give High Elves while the horde gets a fresh skin. It's lazy, unoriginal, and a middle finger to the Alliance as a whole since not all of them have aching Lord of The Rings fantasies they need to fulfill.
We already have Ally's bitching about Mag'hars essentially being multiple Allied raced rolled into one. Imagine the rage if their brand new Allied race is just a copy and paste Belf with blue eyes while the horde gets Gilgoblins, ogres, undead elves, etc, etc.
Outside of the immature dig at the players, even Ion hasn't ruled out High Elves someday being playable. They are just not playable in their current plans.
As for the rest, that's just speculation. For all you know Blizzard gives the Horde a lazy copy pasted alliance race like Alterac Humans if they were to given High Elves to the Alliance. Hell, they could even give Horde Undead High Elves basically giving Horde a copy paste of their own race.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
–The Sith Code
A reskin is not a copy and paste. "Alterac humans" is a lame attempt to justify High elves, but void elves are bad cus their an ass pull? Ion specifically said if you wanna play a Thalasian Elf then the Horde is waiting for, stop trying to twist his words to find hope.
This is the only way Helves will become a reality.
Silvermoon is updated in the real world. There is a civil war and new Thalasian elves have an updated starting experience and choose allegiance at the climax, similar to Pandaren. Horde get San'lyan as Void elf Mirror while alliance gets a reskin Horde race to mirror Nightborne, Gilgoblins maybe?
To compensate for Belvs becoming neutral the Horde gets a brand new race, Ogres.
It's not twisting his words when I am basically using what he stated. He very clearly didn't rule it out more than the present. Should I accuse you of twisting his words because you are making him say it is 100% definite? No, that's not an argument. He specified that blurring faction lines isn't something they want to do in BoA ... not not something that will never happen. It's not twisting words to use everything that is said ... sorry to burst your bubble on that.
And yes, that's a way not the only way.
---
What was said: No high elves for the forseeable future.
What Anti-Helfers heard: No high elves ever!
What Pro-Helfers heard: High elves are possible!
Neither of those interpretations are true ... they just aren't.
Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-03 at 01:59 AM.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
–The Sith Code
I know that I would make a few faction transfers and race changes if Alliance High Elves came out, that and I'd create a new one in addition to that to acquire the heritage armor as well. So, if Blizzard ever did it, that would be roughly 100-120$ out of me, plus more of a reason to remain subbed.
So out of curiosity what would you guys do/how would you feel if cannonicaly (for what ever reason) the vast majority of the current "HE" reunited with Quel'thalas?
I bring this up because Auric Sunchaser who is a blue eye'd elf seemed to advocate Thalassian unity the last we saw him which is to say about ten years ago.
For those of you who do not know who mr Sunchaser is. He is a member of Allerias old attack force she brought to Draenor back during the 2nd war. He was the leader back at Allerian hold. We last saw him during the Quel'dalar questline.
Now of course this is 100% Hypothetical but we keep on talking about the portions of the "HE" that are currently with the Alliance and of course there have been some as you call them Anti-HE people who suggest killing them yet no one has suggested in light of the implications BE might get blue eyes that reuniting might be on the table
Now I am not looking for a debate on if it will happen or not , I am just curious how the response would be.
In a word? Terrible.
This wouldn't give the screamers what they want. They want blue themed blood elves on the Alliance and this would probably be seen as yet another case of "Blizzard shitting on the Alliance in all their Horde biased glory"
I honestly imagine they would throw an even bigger fit if this happened compared to what they're doing now, which would be quite an achievement tbh.