1. #2241
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    The only thing this will do is destroy more mid-tier guilds.

    Most guilds, especially after like top 100, all have 1-2 people that are being carried, fuck up more than the rest and cause more wipes, everyone in the raiding scene knows this, if its not top 100, its top 200, and from 1-2 it becomes 2-5 people and so on.

    Those guilds survive cause loot council prioritizes the better players so they wont gquit or rage that the "baddie" is taking gear first.

    Imagine what will happen now
    You are right with you assumptions about "1-2 ppl that being carries" that goes "up to 2-5" and then from my observations up to 10 in lets say 6/11M.
    But we are in "Trial deserve loot too" thread, not in general thread about ML. So this is not about better players.

    (btw those better players getting loot before trials/carries will not be considered unfair by majority of players and if this is the only issues - problem will not even exist.)

    With ML those carries get loot before trials. All the time.
    Current loot distribution systematically exploit trials in favor of those carries. That is not the only problem with the system, but again in general - this system enables nepotism.

    As for "what happen now" - better players will more more incentives to move forward, towards better guilds. Isn't that good?

  2. #2242
    Deleted
    And the little scared snowflake kid wins again. Pls dont take responsability for the people you play with or your own choices. Please dont try to make the community better or just encourage free will and choice. BY all means all of you bask in the blissfull glory of blizzard motherly embrace, be spoiled more ask for more quality of life and protection from "bad" guys.
    This community has become what blizz wished for, a bunch of manchildrens happy to swallow everything blizz trow at them. So wonderfull

  3. #2243
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    How do you get tired of the truth? The removal of power from those that greedy take from those that assist in the kill as much as others? It is too easy to see that ML is being gone is a good thing unless of course ML is benefiting you. Of course if you are on the non-shit end of the stick you are going to be very upset that those that are get clean hands too.
    This argument would be good if this was the majority of guilds handle loot. But it's not.

    I have never been in, and never heard of a guild where the Loot council is giving themself everything first. Also, if you were in such a guild, it would be obvious to everybody in the raid that the LC is corrupt, so the remaining roster of the guild (large majority) would obviously call them out about their BS.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  4. #2244
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    It doesn’t matter what my progress is. I can have an opinion and you can have yours, just don’t be salty about it.
    If u dont do mythic raiding, this change does not affect u, so why do u care about it, unlike me who raid mythic it will fuck me and my guild over so much i dont even wanna think about it.
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  5. #2245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dikka View Post
    You are right with you assumptions about "1-2 ppl that being carries" that goes "up to 2-5" and then from my observations up to 10 in lets say 6/11M.
    But we are in "Trial deserve loot too" thread, not in general thread about ML. So this is not about better players.

    (btw those better players getting loot before trials/carries will not be considered unfair by majority of players and if this is the only issues - problem will not even exist.)

    With ML those carries get loot before trials. All the time.
    Current loot distribution systematically exploit trials in favor of those carries. That is not the only problem with the system, but again in general - this system enables nepotism.

    As for "what happen now" - better players will more more incentives to move forward, towards better guilds. Isn't that good?
    ANother thing that will happen is the death of even more mid-low guild (some of them who deserve this some of them dont). The staff will be less incentivized to actually work to maintain a guild where the only discipline system is inivite/kick into raids. The best players will move even further up the ladder or flat out stop after the 3d time a carried dude get's a bis while they watch them fail mechanics and come late and unprepared. Less mid guilds = less place to learn and step for everyone = less player pool for high end = less high end and so on, this trend is not something necessarily tied to ML, it's been goin on since blizz started to deincentivize guild raiding. Another step in the right direction. Organized raiding is on it's deathbed as a feature, M+ and pugging titanforge slotmachine are almost at the point were they can takeover for good. Time to let go.

  6. #2246
    I personally would get more loot earlier due to PL because I'm a healer, so the only thing I get before DPS is healer trinkets. And yet I want to keep ML even though I'd individually get less loot with ML. Because I care more about guild progression than my ilvl. I'd rather our DPS get the gear because I want our raid to be able to get past DPS checks so we can kill bosses. I want loot to go where it will help progression the most. If you value your own loot more than raid progression, fine, just don't join a guild like mine. But that isn't enough for you, you support the choice to reduce my fun by praising Blizzard for forcing random loot assignments that will hinder our progression.

  7. #2247
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    I have never been in, and never heard of a guild where the Loot council is giving themself everything first. Also, if you were in such a guild, it would be obvious to everybody in the raid that the LC is corrupt, so the remaining roster of the guild (large majority) would obviously call them out about their BS.
    I have. It was long time ago during WoTLK on Defias Brotherhood (EU), horde side. Don't remember guild name and it doesn't matter because it didn't last long. I've stayed in it for 2 weeks, few months later they disappeared.

    Such guilds do exists, but they are rare exception. I think change is more about dealing with split runs than about toxic guilds. Ion is a lawyer, he lies all the time.

  8. #2248
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    This argument would be good if this was the majority of guilds handle loot. But it's not.

    I have never been in, and never heard of a guild where the Loot council is giving themself everything first. Also, if you were in such a guild, it would be obvious to everybody in the raid that the LC is corrupt, so the remaining roster of the guild (large majority) would obviously call them out about their BS.
    Congratulations you are one of the people that landed in a good spot and I understand that this change hurts good people like you. Shamefully a lot of people are the exact opposite. They use ML to take advantage of others. Of trail members putting in hard work on bosses. Just so greedy individuals can have their loot funnel filled. These people will go to and ends to destroy others loot options for their own. Hell up until the last Q&A they played games about loot not mattering. Mythic is about amazing challenge and skill. Then the moment that funnel is cut off it gets REALLY obvious that loot was actually the only reason they play at all. That even just it being handed out different makes them hate and quit the game. Fucking exposed is all I can say to that. ML getting snipped has tl happen because of those types. Many of them are in this thread. They have nothing but aggression left in them over a menu option based on greed. Pure and simple greed. Sickening. PL is the best way to move forward. Removal of ML forces a superior system upon the oppressed and cuts the funnel from the greedy. Perfect system.

  9. #2249
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Congratulations you are one of the people that landed in a good spot and I understand that this change hurts good people like you. Shamefully a lot of people are the exact opposite. They use ML to take advantage of others. Of trail members putting in hard work on bosses. Just so greedy individuals can have their loot funnel filled. These people will go to and ends to destroy others loot options for their own. Hell up until the last Q&A they played games about loot not mattering. Mythic is about amazing challenge and skill. Then the moment that funnel is cut off it gets REALLY obvious that loot was actually the only reason they play at all. That even just it being handed out different makes them hate and quit the game. Fucking exposed is all I can say to that. ML getting snipped has tl happen because of those types. Many of them are in this thread. They have nothing but aggression left in them over a menu option based on greed. Pure and simple greed. Sickening. PL is the best way to move forward. Removal of ML forces a superior system upon the oppressed and cuts the funnel from the greedy. Perfect system.
    Dude, chill. Eat a snickers, coz you are turning into Kaimumac with his broken recorder "speech repetition"
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  10. #2250
    Eh, let's be honest: the main problem with Master Loot going away is now you wouldn't be able to keep Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei from getting gear.

  11. #2251
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Projectmars View Post
    Eh, let's be honest: the main problem with Master Loot going away is now you wouldn't be able to keep Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei from getting gear.
    Its already hard, when 2/3 of guild is void elves
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  12. #2252
    Quote Originally Posted by JackWest View Post
    Its already hard, when 2/3 of guild is void elves
    Well Kick ‘em out and get better raiders.

  13. #2253
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Projectmars View Post
    Well Kick ‘em out and get better raiders.
    I am still a trial man. I have no power. They still parse purple/orange though, so all gucci. #OPMonks
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  14. #2254
    Quote Originally Posted by JackWest View Post
    Dude, chill. Eat a snickers, coz you are turning into Kaimumac with his broken recorder "speech repetition"
    Excuse me sir? This thread is about trials getting me. Not me. Although I understand that when your argument gets punched full of holes its what you have to resort to. I respect that. I know you are likely harmed by this change and getting all those extra pieces is lost to you because of this very good change. Removal of ML is top of the world good. PL will solve this. Blizzard is really making the best choice possible.

  15. #2255
    Quote Originally Posted by JackWest View Post
    I am still a trial man. I have no power. They still parse purple/orange though, so all gucci. #OPMonks
    Psh. No good player would take that shit race.

  16. #2256
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    One of the arguments that is constantly brought up is that "raiders would quit when trials/carries get loot when they go weeks without anything". This is the same facile argument that the other side uses to justify ML being taken away (that ML is abused to give gear to themselves/friends). It's treating such things as the rule, rather than as an exception.

    I've personally experienced the opposite happening in my guild. Granted, we only raid heroic, but we use PL, and let people link gear that they don't want/need in raid and let people roll on it. It's fairly often that we get the core people getting drops that they don't need passing it off to the new people, way more than the new people lucking out and getting a BiS item that someone else needs.

    Personally, I feel like trials should get an equal chance at loot, but I also acknowledge that my opinion doesn't really hold much weight as I don't ever plan on raiding mythic. But so many people on both sides of this thread are relying on the outliers of chance, rather than the average.
    Last edited by Vouksh89; 2018-05-03 at 07:54 PM.

  17. #2257
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Excuse me sir? This thread is about trials getting me. Not me. Although I understand that when your argument gets punched full of holes its what you have to resort to. I respect that. I know you are likely harmed by this change and getting all those extra pieces is lost to you because of this very good change. Removal of ML is top of the world good. PL will solve this. Blizzard is really making the best choice possible.
    Fuck my arguments. I am not the one going to every single person telling them how they are wrong and repeating the same 2 sentences over and over again

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vouksh89 View Post
    One of the arguments that is constantly brought up is that "raiders would quit when trials/carries get loot when they go weeks without anything". This is the same facile argument that the other side uses to justify ML being taken away (that ML is abused to give gear to themselves/friends). It's treating such things as the rule, rather than as an exception.

    I've personally experienced the opposite happening in my guild. Granted, we only raid heroic, but we use PL, and let people link gear that they don't want/need in raid and let people roll on it. It's fairly often that we get the core people getting drops that they don't need passing it off to the new people, way more than the new people lucking out and getting a BiS item that someone else needs.

    Personally, I feel like trials should get an equal chance at loot, but I also acknowledge that my opinion doesn't really hold much weight as I don't ever plan on raiding mythic. But so many people on both sides of this thread are relying on the outliers of chance than the average.
    If only more people were like you...
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  18. #2258
    LOL, this thread is still going? There isn't anything new being said, just repeating the same things over and over.

  19. #2259
    Quote Originally Posted by JackWest View Post
    Fuck my arguments. I am not the one going to every single person telling them how they are wrong and repeating the same 2 sentences over and over again

    - - - Updated - - -



    If only more people were like you...
    I have to admit you don't have much of a case to keep ML. Mostly because PL is simply superior. I also than you for the compliment. I do respect your opinion an position. Just do not budge from my own.

  20. #2260
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    I have to admit you don't have much of a case to keep ML. Mostly because PL is simply superior. I also than you for the compliment. I do respect your opinion an position. Just do not budge from my own.
    Then there is no need to repeat it 50 times a day, right?
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