Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Svifnymr]

I mean, everything points towards you being wrong.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-35048251

If you had the arguement about it not being sustainable in the USA, you would have a valid arguement. "No, it didn't" is completely wrong.

It is debatable how much of the drop in crime is attributable to the gun ban, given that the USA had a larger reduction in firearm crimes during the same 20 year period than either Australia or UK did. Certainly, we're higher than them now, and were higher than them before, but the gun bans contribution to the lowering over the last 20-25 years is hard to gauge given the larger reduction without a ban.

The more salient part of course being the violent crime rates, rather than simple gun crime, but that gets into so many different ways of tracking things that it's hard to judge.

[misterpuk]

Not paying to view a paper.

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gu...ralia-updated/

Apologies, I didn't get the paywall when I viewed the page.


The issue isn't wether or not gun-related goes down or up - you have to compare ALL violent crime.

If gun related crimes go down, but overall violent crimes go up, your correlation then leans towards the favor of more guns = less violent crime.

Criminals will find a way to be criminals, but no amount of gun control legislation protects law abiding citizens.

[Shadowferal]

Hehe...I almost forgot this happened last Saturday:

It was quite the morning for Maxine Thompson to say the very least.
Police say around 4 a.m. a suspect broke into her home on Poplar Street.
But little did the suspect know, Thompson, the mother of a Philadelphia police officer and grandmother was ready to defend herself.
"I was sleeping and I heard somebody was trying to get into my house. And at first I thought I was hearing things then I jumped up and went to the window and I said who is that trying to get into my house," said Maxine Thompson of North Philadelphia.
Thompson says the suspect got in, breaking in through a back window and then came upstairs after her.
But that would turn out to be a mistake for the suspect.
"I reached down and grabbed my gun he was at my bedroom door. And I shot at him a couple times. He ran down the steps and I ran down the steps behind him. I shot some more and he jumped out the window and he jumped out the same window he came in and he jumped back out," she said.

Police say after the suspect took off he came down to Broad and Brown and jumped on the roof of a car wash. And that's when the suspect called the police."

Detectives say when they got to the car wash, they found the suspect.

He suffered a graze wound to his upper left arm.

Investigators listened to his story and he was taken into custody.

Back at the scene, we spoke with Thompson's next door neighbor, Johnnie Tobias.

She adds she's happy Thompson did what she did.

And has a message for the suspect.

"Get a job and you won't have to be intruding in on innocent people like this," said Tobias.

Thompson says this was the first time she ever used her gun.

[Ghostpanther]

That is a big cop out because protecting the second amendment is something we both agree on but you don't think that this speech was Alex Jones level crazy? or do you think there's nothing wrong with the Alex Jones of the world?

I do not pay much attention to Alex Jones. I have heard the name before, but have not cared enough to know how crazy he is. If he is like LaPieere in his presentation, then no, he is not crazy. Jones may be crazy for what he believes in however.

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You don't shoot and kill a burgler while he's running away with your TV you shoot him when he wakes you up in the middle of the night dressed like a ninja and prob also armed. That's the moment when you are scared for your life, not for your belongings...

I agree basically with what you said. You should never shoot a intruder if they are running back toward the door in what appears to be a attempt to escape. He ran upstairs first however as she was shooting at him and then down stairs. So it was not clear he was trying to escape in the heat of the moment. She will not be charged.

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Then you should have no issue disproving me.

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Oh please, verse me on the context. I'm really anxious to hear this one.

As to the other part, such a program would never work here because people don't want it to work here because it's a 42.9 billion dollar industry.

He has. You just do not like the answer.

He said the NRA is a large supporter for the police. His wording afterwards may could have been stated a little better, but he meant they are the largest supporter of the Law enforcement.

Not true at all. Australia did not have a Second Amendment or the 320+ million firearms, to mention just two simple points.

[lockedout]

Not true at all. Australia did not have a Second Amendment or the 320+ million firearms, to mention just two simple points.

They did have a mandatory buyback though.

[TheFailadin]

How do you know it will make things worse? It made things better in Australia. You are only speculating it will make things worse, just like it is speculation that things would be better following the Australia model. At least one has real world evidence to back it, not to sure about the other.

See, the thing is from what I'v heard it hasn't made things better.

Second of all you're trying to argue that American firearm culture is equal to Australia's when it's not even close to nor was it's constitution built around our 2nd amendment rights.

I don't understand why people want to give up their rights to protect themselves.. and if you're willing to give up something "so trivial" why not give up the right to voting, and free speech first?

Plus there are much more people who die to drunk drivers than people being killed by firearms.. why not ban the use of assault cars?

[breadisfunny]

You don't shoot and kill a burgler while he's running away with your TV you shoot him when he wakes you up in the middle of the night dressed like a ninja and prob also armed. That's the moment when you are scared for your life, not for your belongings...

thieves forfeit their rights to life. citizens should be able to use deadly force to deal with criminal scumbags.

[Deleted]

thieves forfeit their rights to life. citizens should be able to use deadly force to deal with criminal scumbags.

Meah, not really. If he is just stealing and not armed, not going to attack you, you should maim him, shoot leg/arms not shoot to kill.

[Tasttey]

Meah, not really. If he is just stealing and not armed, not going to attack you, you should maim him, shoot leg/arms not shoot to kill.

First off, if he isn't a direct threat to you/some else you shouldn't even consider shooting.

Secondly, if you are forced to shoot (because your/some else's life is in danger) you aim center mass and you pull the trigger until it goes click, then reload and cover the body while you call emergency services.

[bladeXcrasher]

See, the thing is from what I'v heard it hasn't made things better.

Second of all you're trying to argue that American firearm culture is equal to Australia's when it's not even close to nor was it's constitution built around our 2nd amendment rights.

I don't understand why people want to give up their rights to protect themselves.. and if you're willing to give up something "so trivial" why not give up the right to voting, and free speech first?

Plus there are much more people who die to drunk drivers than people being killed by firearms.. why not ban the use of assault cars?

Except I'm not, if you actually followed the conversation I addressed that. As for the constitution, yeah it's there, but the context of 1776 and 2018 are worlds apart.

Gun owners are a MINORITY in the USA.

The assault car argument is ridiculous, both in practice and the fact you butchered it in such way you didn't even make I valid comparison. In addition to that, automotive deaths have been trending down while firearms have been trending up so...

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I do not pay much attention to Alex Jones. I have heard the name before, but have not cared enough to know how crazy he is. If he is like LaPieere in his presentation, then no, he is not crazy. Jones may be crazy for what he believes in however.

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I agree basically with what you said. You should never shoot a intruder if they are running back toward the door in what appears to be a attempt to escape. He ran upstairs first however as she was shooting at him and then down stairs. So it was not clear he was trying to escape in the heat of the moment. She will not be charged.

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He has. You just do not like the answer.

He said the NRA is a large supporter for the police. His wording afterwards may could have been stated a little better, but he meant they are the largest supporter of the Law enforcement.

Not true at all. Australia did not have a Second Amendment or the 320+ million firearms, to mention just two simple points.

No, he said many members of law enforcement are members of the NRA, completely separate from his previous comments in his professionally written speech. His wording was exactly as it was intended, the guy is a nutcase and you are bending over backwards to defend him.

[Ghostpanther]

They did have a mandatory buyback though.

And? There are millions who would not give up their weapons. Period. Plus, it is silly to even debate the possibility of it happening here in the US. Not without a amendment or repeal of the Second Amendment.

[bladeXcrasher]

And? There are millions who would not give up their weapons. Period. Plus, it is silly to even debate the possibility of it happening here in the US. Not without a amendment or repeal of the Second Amendment.

Oh, silly us, didn't know debate of potential gun laws and future gun control was off limits, up to and including gun control enacted in other countries.

[Ghostpanther]

Except I'm not, if you actually followed the conversation I addressed that. As for the constitution, yeah it's there, but the context of 1776 and 2018 are worlds apart.

Gun owners are a MINORITY in the USA.

The assault car argument is ridiculous, both in practice and the fact you butchered it in such way you didn't even make I valid comparison. In addition to that, automotive deaths have been trending down while firearms have been trending up so...

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No, he said many members of law enforcement are members of the NRA, completely separate from his previous comments in his professionally written speech. His wording was exactly as it was intended, the guy is a nutcase and you are bending over backwards to defend him.

The right to use a weapon to equalize yourself against a threat is no different now than it was in 1776. The founders of the Constitution felt the basic human rights included in our Constitution was not something the law gives, but is a natural right. The Constitution was written in a way, so the government could not take any of those rights away.

That actually makes even more sense then. You can feel he is, which is fine. But millions will continue to support the cause the NRA is fighting for. Their membership ranks are only getting larger. You are free to exercise your right to vote against any candidate connected to them.

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Oh, silly us, didn't know debate of potential gun laws and future gun control was off limits, up to and including gun control enacted in other countries.

You are free to debate anything on this forum which is not prohibited. But do not expect others to take it seriously.

[cuafpr]

thieves forfeit their rights to life. citizens should be able to use deadly force to deal with criminal scumbags.

^ this, once you try and steal my stuff even an easily replaceable TV suddenly your life has less than zero value to me and can be ended. Its not like its hard not to steal / rob / assault someone one. if people were being shot for jay-walking that would be different.

[bladeXcrasher]

The right to use a weapon to equalize yourself against a threat is no different now than it was in 1776. The founders of the Constitution felt the basic human rights included in our Constitution was not something the law gives, but is a natural right. The Constitution was written in a way, so the government could not take any of those rights away.

That actually makes even more sense then. You can feel he is, which is fine. But millions will continue to support the cause the NRA is fighting for. Their membership ranks are only getting larger. You are free to exercise your right to vote against any candidate connected to them.

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You are free to debate anything on this forum which is not prohibited. But do not expect others to take it seriously.

Membership ranks of a shrinking minority are growing, so don't expect others to take that seriously.

[Ghostpanther]

Membership ranks of a shrinking minority are growing, so don't expect others to take that seriously.

Lol. Then push for a amendment of the Second Amendment. See how successful that is. Being a minority, does not mean you are not without Constitutional rights.

[bladeXcrasher]

Lol. Then push for a amendment of the Second Amendment. See how successful that is. Being a minority, does not mean you are not without Constitutional rights.

It's trending that way, so we us citizens just need to sit tight as the dinosaurs die off. Hopefully it happens in the next few decades, I'd like to see it before I retire.

[Daelak]

And? There are millions who would not give up their weapons. Period. Plus, it is silly to even debate the possibility of it happening here in the US. Not without a amendment or repeal of the Second Amendment.

If the price was right, a gun buyback program would decrease firearm ownership rates, since ownership is on the decline, leaving an extreme minority of irrational gun hoarders who definitely have a undiagnosed mental disorder.

[Ghostpanther]

It's trending that way, so we us citizens just need to sit tight as the dinosaurs die off. Hopefully it happens in the next few decades, I'd like to see it before I retire.

I wouldn't hold your breath. Are you well aware of what it takes to amend or repeal a Constitutional Amendment? It is not based on popular vote as a national whole or desires.

[Daelak]

See, the thing is from what I'v heard it hasn't made things better.

Second of all you're trying to argue that American firearm culture is equal to Australia's when it's not even close to nor was it's constitution built around our 2nd amendment rights.

I don't understand why people want to give up their rights to protect themselves.. and if you're willing to give up something "so trivial" why not give up the right to voting, and free speech first?

Plus there are much more people who die to drunk drivers than people being killed by firearms.. why not ban the use of assault cars?

I keep hearing about this "culture" that differentiates humans on one continent from another. Do American fetuses gestate a firearm in utero?
What you are really referring to is the effective marketing strategy and rhetoric employed by libertarian and conservative voices that infected the NRA in the 1970's due to minority populations using firearms to resist federal and state power. No liberal or progressive has had anything to do with the schism that occured then, when the NRA served the public through firearm safety and use, not lobbying for gun manufacturers.