Getting Legion legendaries in BFA

[JackWest]

In the grand scheme of things it's actually pretty irrelevant. The fact is that WoW has always had, and will always have, those 1 or 2 specs that are less desirablem for every tier of content. It's seldom that any spec stays down for long as the game is constantly adjusting to try and resolve these things. As a player you need to roll with those punches and, to be blunt about it, if you're at a sufficiently high level of competition that these things are critical, if you're reliant on being able to play a single spec, that's your own failure.

Also for high level raiding, it's about the team. Successful teams don't get that way by being short-sighted and benching a player permanantly just because of bad luck. If you're a good raider, you'll be part of the plan.



Yes, but it does invalidate one of the loudest arguments trying to demonstrate how it is bad.

One thing is a spec being less strong by design. Another thing is said spec being designed around a specific item, which person may or may not have. Thats my issue with the legion legendary system. I personally had experience with what I am talking about. I raided in EN as guardian/feral as with my guild we used 3 tanks on 3 EN fights. For the rest, tanks rotated, so when I dont tank I either had to DPS or be benched. My feral OS simmed about 180k with crap leggos and around 875 ilvl. The moment I got the 2nd BiS item(the shoes that give stacks of Predatory Swiftness) the dps went above 310k. Same gear, same rotation. Now, on a fight with ~320k dps check you will not bring a person with 180k, but you can afford to do that if they do 310k(as few classes already did more than the minimum). Which is why I only did Ursoc as feral when I got that legendary. Before that I either tank it, or sit out. And I personally knew few people playing feral ONLY. I get if such person is benched because feral is bad for X or Y boss. But being benched because you dont have specific item is just retarded

Wanna know how top guilds "avoided" benching ppl due to leggos? By not having those specs in the first place. Example: Nagura, THE boomkin in the EU raiding scene was given the choice to either heal those bosses, or sit out, UNTIL she got the boomkin legendary helm which helped TONS on ST fights

[Deleted]

Then dont keep insisting how "you dont need legendaries to raid" is 100% true, when the DPS check bosses on mythic are part of it, and thats where it is wrong. My problem was with you using an "absolute" statement like "never"

Please name the very first Legion Mythic raidboss where you absolutely cannot participate without any kind of legendary.

[JackWest]

Please name the very first Legion Mythic raidboss where you absolutely cannot participate without any kind of legendary.

The whole time I am talking about specific spec missing specific legendary and now you are asking me about "ANY" spec and "ANY" legendary?! Just accept you overexaggerated in your first post, to fit your point, and lets move on

[Deleted]

The whole time I am talking about specific spec missing specific legendary and now you are asking me about "ANY" spec and "ANY" legendary?! Just accept you overexaggerated in your first post, to fit your point, and lets move on

Nope. Because the whole time, since post 6 of this thread, I have been talking in general terms. You CAN raid without legendaries, period. They are NOT mandatory, period. I have never stated that you could kill every single boss without being well geared, because that has been the case since vanilla. Having specific legendaries is part of being well geared in Legion. But it is a fact, wether you like it or not, that you CAN raid without legendaries.

No it's you - to say some items aren't mandatory in a mythic environment is not accurate.

As above.

[Paulosio]

Is it possible to get the current Legion legendaries when BFA comes out? I know wowhead says this: "The Legion system of randomly dropping Legendaries will not continue into Battle for Azeroth." But I'm not sure if that just means the current legendary system will be gone or if it also means getting the current Legion legendaries will not be possible once BFA comes out. I'm asking since I'm trying to get as many legendaries as possible for transmog and OCD reasons. If I can continue getting legendaries in BFA, it'll make it a lot easier.

I don't think any legion legendaries have unique transmogs. Most if not all just reuse skins from old raids.

Fair enough if it's just for the sake of being a completionist though.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope. Because the whole time, since post 6 of this thread, I have been talking in general terms. You CAN raid without legendaries, period. They are NOT mandatory, period. I have never stated that you could kill every single boss without being well geared, because that has been the case since vanilla. Having specific legendaries is part of being well geared. But it is a fact, wether you like it or not, that you CAN raid without legendaries.



As above.

You can raid without legendaries but good luck finding a guild that will allow you to raid without any... Having the correct legendaries is a different matter though. At this point there are very few guilds in the world that wont let you raid because you don't have a specific legendary.

[JackWest]

Nope. Because the whole time, since post 6 of this thread, I have been talking in general terms. You CAN raid without legendaries, period. They are NOT mandatory, period. I have never stated that you could kill every single boss without being well geared, because that has been the case since vanilla. Having specific legendaries is part of being well geared in Legion. But it is a fact, wether you like it or not, that you CAN raid without legendaries.



As above.

Yet you continued to argue with me how my specific examples are false and make in your "general terms" 100% accurate

[Deleted]

Yet you continued to argue with me how my specific examples are false and make in your "general terms" 100% accurate

Because you made an argument that has nothing to do with what I posted, I had to keep reminding you what I actually wrote.

[Mhyroth]

Not trying to doubt you but could you name a couple out of curiosity?

Just I remember them saying no Legendary in Legion would use a unique model for the sake of transmog or something.

To name a few:
Cloth Celumbra, the Night's Dichotomy
Leather The Sentinel's Eternal Refuge
Monk Fundamental Observation
Priest Xalan the Feared's Clench
Priest Rammal's Ulterior Motive
Mail Vigilance Perch

As taken from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...1C8s0/pubhtml# and the "All the Things" Discord Channel.

[JackWest]

Because you made an argument that has nothing to do with what I posted, I had to keep reminding you what I actually wrote.

OK, lets agree we spoke about different things and drop this :P

[Deleted]

OK, lets agree we spoke about different things and drop this :P

I did try to tell you a couple of hours ago

[Primemrip]

This.

While some specs could do fine I really remember certain specs being crap without specific legendaries. UH DK and Feral Druid spring to mind.

I mean sure you weren't forced to get them but building certain specs too much around them was the issue and hence why they are gone. Not to mention it was a garbage system. A legendary should feel special or worked on. Like the Cape/Ring where you worked on an item of power throughout the expansion similar to Relics in FF14.

Personally I don't think the current system made it feel anything special. Just reminded me too much of Diablo 3.

And since they've made hints about going back to the older Legendary system to be honest I hope they don't either. I'd rather them go back to the Cape/Ring style if anything. Everyone gets it and it feels like you put the effort in for it. Again going back to Relics in FF14 that's how I'd like the legendary system to be in WoW personally.

Almost all mythic raid encounters are tuned around dps having bis legendarys and almost all classes are worse off for not having bis.

[JackWest]

I did try to tell you a couple of hours ago

Lets just say, I was looking at your "original statement" from a perspective thats not exactly "right"

[Deleted]

I can't believe you think that's some kind of good point, it's completely contrived and dumb. I'm sorry it just is.

Which part is wrong?

[Primemrip]

I do, but you ignore what I said because it doesn't fit in your head. So let me explain.

How did you get Atiesh, Thunderfury and Sulfuras in Vanilla? By raiding. You had to raid BEFORE you got the legendary. You could raid without legendaries.
How did you get Warglaives and Thori'dal in TBC? By raiding. You had to raid BEFORE you got the legendary. You could raid without legendaries.
How did you get Shadowmourne and Val'anyr in WotLK? By raiding. You had to raid BEFORE you got the legendary. You could raid without legendaries.
How did you get Dragonwrath and the rogue daggers in Cata? By raiding. You had to raid BEFORE you got the legendary. You could raid without legendaries.
How did you get the MOP cloaks and WOD rings? By raiding. You had to raid BEFORE you got the legendary. You could raid without legendaries.

So even here in Legion, you do NOT have to have legendaries to raid. They are NOT mandatory to raid.

I am playing a DH tank on Mythic Argus, currently I am finding it next to impossible to survive the explosion from the soulbomb and soulburst combo. I have been told the Legendary tank trinket is very good for this boss as the shield scales with total hp. Some would almost say you need it...

Also if you think about it, you could consider stepping through the portal of the raid as raiding. So by that definition you don't need them. Killing bosses on the other hand, I doubt the average player would succeed, considering some people are struggling these days with both BiS and a 1k Pantheon Trinket and all traits.

It's almost like saying you could raid without your artifact weapon. You can but LOL. Good luck being competitive.

[Deleted]

Good luck being competitive.

I repeat myself:

Again, this comment is not in any way about being competetive. It's about legendaries being mandatory to raid. They are not. Sure, some classes/specs will underperform without them, but that is not at all the point in this. You do not need legendaries to raid, period.

[Primemrip]

I repeat myself:

Says who

------------

[Deleted]

You're being pedantic because you don't want to be wrong.

Actually, as my statement is entirely accurate regarding what I actually wrote, I don’t think I am being pedantic. You are just reading more into it than what I actually write.

Yea, you need certain legendaries to perform well as certain specs, never ever said otherwise. But to raid? No. Not mandatory. You can easily raid without them. You will suck compared to having them, but you CAN raid without them. They are not mandatory to raid.

[Deleted]

You need to google what contrived means. You are objectively wrong about this

If the meaning is “deliberatly created”, then the requirement to have 940 and BiS legendaries to raid Normal Emerald Nightmare is contrived. By players. You can still raid without legendaries. They are not mandatory.

[Joodoc]

Except you didn't. In fact their rosters during their world first and seconds specifically show that. If they never sat people out they would have a more diverse raid setup, they don't they only have the FOTM or classes that could cheese effects for bosses. You can also see their rosters have characters with either BiS Legendary or near best, you don't see people with the old versions of Pyraz, Sephix, or the other utility ones.

Let's look at Kil'Jaeden for Method.

DPS Raid Comp:
Melee - 5 Rogues, 2 Arms Warriors
Ranged - 2 Balance Druids, 3 MM Hunters, 1 Shadow Priest, 1 Destro Lock

Melee DPS
Enhancement Shamans: 0
Survival Hunters: 0
Fury Warriors: 0
Feral Druids: 0
Death Knights: 0
Demon Hunters: 0
Ret Paladins: 0

Ranged DPS
Mages: 0
Affliction/Demo Warlocks: 0
Elemental Shamans: 0


The list goes on. They stacked their raid significantly and when you look at the gear you can see that they had stacked legendaries needed for the clear.

They did not take the player, they took the class and if you didn't have the gear, they didn't take you.

Kil'jaeden was quite a ways into the the expansion. At that point, anyone who was a serious raider had multiple options for legendaries. I was a casual raider, and when nightwell came out I had 3 legendaries on one toon, and 5 legendaries on 2 toons. Tomb came out would have been even more so(couldn't play during most of nightwell and tomb so i don't have a good comparison for when tomb came out). But as a casual raider I had all that, a hardcore raider like those in Method had LOADS of options beyond the terrible ones, and at that point most if not all had BiS and likely all legendaries.

If you had Prydaz as your best legendary at that point, you were not a serious raider, and so you wouldn't have been viable for Method in the first place. Just trying to do the gear and AP grind needed to be that level of Mythic raider would have you having loads of legendaries by then. It wasn't that they wouldn't let you come, it was that if you did all the other requirements to be that level of raider, you had options beyond Prydaz.

[MisterBigglez]

afaik You can still get wakening essence and random legendary drops in LEGION content and use them in Battle for Azeroth, but level ~116-118 legendaries start to be replaced with new expansion gear.

New legendaries will not be introduced in bfa though.

Not entirely true, if the gear stays the same on beta, chances are you will still use your legendaries as a statstick all the way to max. Also, there has been some discussion of bringing back legendaries, but nothing has been confirmed as to how they will distribute them. I think they mentioned that it might work like Amanthul's so just a random drop from a specific boss which i'm ok with as long as the item is actually good (yes the trink it good but a 1000 ilvl panth is better for a lot of classes)