WW2 Victory Day Parade - May 9.

[Varitok]

The other way around is more likely.

Soviets had no chance if the entire german war machine pressed them hard. Espionage and Operation Minced Meat was the reason for success in Normandy.

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No. Ever heard about Stalingrad? The Soviet Union would have won the war regardless of American action, the final victory would have been more later (probably between 1947 and 1950), but Germany wouldn't have won.

The Soviets only got as far as they did due to pressure on both sides and American arms funneling to the Russian troops. People give Stalin far too much credit and praise.

[Deleted]

The Russians would have crushed the Nazis one way or the other, even if the Americans never involved themselves.

Normandy was a picnic compared to the Stalingrad.

75-80 percent of the Wehrmacht was in the Eastern front during WW2 while 20-25 percent was serving in the Western front. The figure of the German army serving in the East might have been higher in 1943 because many divisions were sent from France to fight the Russians. The Germans began deploying more troops in the Western front after D-Day landings by the Western allies.

Official OKW Casualty Figures list 65% of Heer killed/missing/captured as being lost on the Eastern Front from Sept. 1 1939 to January 1 1945 (four monthsand a week before the conclusion of the war), with front not specified for losses of the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe. So, the German casualties in the Eastern front were estimated to be around 70%(and more) of the total casualties while casualties in the Western front were estimated to be around 30%.

[PL-Cibo]

Probably not. Germany was losing already before D-day was even in the near vicinity.

that is right. but because they overextended themselves with fighting a war against multiple opponents on multiple fronts. the soviets won their part like every other important war they had aganist europe. With waiting for the winter. But it's strange that that russia still celebrates this day as if they were the UDSSR.

[Uncle]

][/COLOR]
The Soviets only got as far as they did due to pressure on both sides and American arms funneling to the Russian troops. People give Stalin far too much credit and praise.

Again, no.

[callipygoustp]

Often seems, when Russia's contribution to the destruction of the German army in WWII is brought up, many Americans are unaware of just how big of a deal Stalingrad was. I don't believe Russia could have defeated Germany on its own, but, Stalingrad was most definitely one of the pivotal events that led to the end of Nazi Germany. Pretty amazing battle(s).

[Gaidax]

The Russians would have crushed the Nazis one way or the other, even if the Americans never involved themselves.

Normandy was a picnic compared to the Stalingrad.

This, pretty much. There is no doubt about this, Stalingrad was that event that decided the war. D-Day merely hastened the inevitable end.

[Independent voter]

Putin and the oligarchs really are promoting WWII, there are posters and documentaries everywhere. Why? Because it gives Russians a feeling of nationalism. Why would Putin want the Russians to feel nationalistic? Putin wants to direct the attention of Russians away from his corruption and towards imaginary foreign adversaries. Putin doesn't want Russians to notice he has $2 billion squirreled away in a Panamanian bank account. WWII was all about defeating a foreign adversary.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

WW2 Victory Day....should be called charade, not parade.

A genocidal totalitarian country won another genocidal totalitarian country in a war. Neither of the countries exist anymore. What is there to "celebrate"?

Well, outside of the generic "the defeat of the Axis powers in WWII was a good thing" I'm ambivalent on actually celebrating. This is ancillary to what I posted though. All I was saying that a lot of things get regular threads, and just on basic premise the end of the war in Europe was a big deal and important event regardless of feelings on the combatants one way or another. I was just pointing out that the fallout from the event and the geopolitical impact on the world moving forward are as reasonable topics of conversation as anything else in Gen-OT.

I didn't say we should all be out celebrating, and if I was I would already be done celebrating as in the much of the West it is recognized as May 7/8, pretty much only the former Eastern Bloc celebrates May 9.

[Deleted]

Should probably hold a memorial parade for the millions of people that they killed after saving them

[caervek]

Amazing how soviet union is credited for the victory, if it wasnt for the allied invasion of france germany would have crushed the soviets

Lol, The Soviets had turned the tide against Germany before the invasion of France (That was inevitable the second Hitler invaded the USSR, the only question was how far in they would progress before being pushed back by the Soviet steamroller, interestingly they didn't even get as far as Soviet war plans expected), we didn't invade France to defeat Germany, that was already assured, we invaded France to make sure the USSR stopped in Germany and didn't take France too.

[d87]

Putin and the oligarchs really are promoting WWII, there are posters and documentaries everywhere. Why? Because it gives Russians a feeling of nationalism. Why would Putin want the Russians to feel nationalistic? Putin wants to direct the attention of Russians away from his corruption and towards imaginary foreign adversaries. Putin doesn't want Russians to notice he has $2 billion squirreled away in a Panamanian bank account. WWII was all about defeating a foreign adversary.

Yeah how fucking dare they traditionally celebrate the biggest victory for their nation and the world. Every day you hear about 6 gorillion jews, but 27 million soviets? That's nothing, who cares, right? You certainly wouldn't, and they should stop too?
Better to talk about how crazy monster Putin and his Russian bots invented Victory day parade to fool people into thinking their history matters

[Deleted]

Putin and the oligarchs really are promoting WWII, there are posters and documentaries everywhere. Why? Because it gives Russians a feeling of nationalism. Why would Putin want the Russians to feel nationalistic? Putin wants to direct the attention of Russians away from his corruption and towards imaginary foreign adversaries. Putin doesn't want Russians to notice he has $2 billion squirreled away in a Panamanian bank account. WWII was all about defeating a foreign adversary.

Since when is it nationalism to honor 20-26 million Soviet people who died during Nazi invasion? They should be honored.

[caervek]

But it's strange that that russia still celebrates this day as if they were the UDSSR.

Russia is the successor state of the USSR, hence why they took it's seat in the UN, G9, etc and had to take on all it's debt.

[VyersReaver]

Putin maybe shit, but grats to Russians for that important victory.

At least someone gets it, and separates. Thanks.

[Deleted]

Amazing how soviet union is credited for the victory, if it wasnt for the allied invasion of france germany would have crushed the soviets

Not even close. Nice of the USA to join in 3 years late though.

Have you considered educating yourself on ww2? You'll learn lots of things.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Not even close. Nice of the USA to join in 3 years late though.

Hey! We were busy! Lots of stuff to do! I mean, look at this calendar, it's booked solid! Now excuse me, Pinocchio just game out I need to go to the theater.

[McFuu]

No. Ever heard about Stalingrad? The Soviet Union would have won the war regardless of American action, the final victory would have been more later (probably between 1947 and 1950), but Germany wouldn't have won.

Soviets had no chance if the entire german war machine pressed them hard. Espionage and Operation Minced Meat was the reason for success in Normandy.

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The Soviets only got as far as they did due to pressure on both sides and American arms funneling to the Russian troops. People give Stalin far too much credit and praise.

The Russians would have crushed the Nazis one way or the other, even if the Americans never involved themselves.

Normandy was a picnic compared to the Stalingrad.

Regardless of who attacked first, Germany would have lost. Germany was already stretched well beyond it's means to offer a defense from anyside, even at full strength. After the Battle of Britain the Luftwaffe was non-existent on the German Western front, and Russia/the Winter took care of what they could muster on the Eastern Front. German tank divisions suffered from massive maintenance and supply issues, and the German Navy was borderline non-existent... And this was all in 1941 before Operation Barbarossa began. The myth of Nazi superiority is really just a misunderstanding. The Blitz that they are known for plays to all the German strengths, but once that part is over it exposes Germany's biggest issue, supply lines and maintenance. In an effort to attack quickly they over extend themselves, they leave vehicles broken down on the side of the road, and when the attack is over the logistics never catch up. They take more than they can properly man, obviously their policies greatly affected the way the populace thought about them. This was especially true in Russia where the German army was essentially salting the earth as they moved through Russia, committing atrocities against Russian farmers. Germany created their own propaganda that stirred the Russian people into running headlong into the German army until they ran out of supplies and lost the fight.

It never really mattered who attacked and from where, Germany lost the war in 1940-41 it only took them another 4 years to actually be completely beaten.

[caervek]

Not even close. Nice of the USA to join in 3 years late though.

Hey, give them credit for joining the good guys (like they did in WW1 too), after all they did back Napoleon lol.

[DinardJoulien]

WW2 Victory Day....should be called charade, not parade.

A genocidal totalitarian country won another genocidal totalitarian country in a war. Neither of the countries exist anymore. What is there to "celebrate"?

Win over enemy? Also, how USSR is "genocidal"? Why are you talking out of your ass?
Yes, USSR was totalitarian regime, but they never had plans to exterminate bunch of people, because, of their race.

Amazing how soviet union is credited for the victory, if it wasnt for the allied invasion of france germany would have crushed the soviets

No.

[Gaaz]

Soviets had no chance if the entire german war machine pressed them hard. Espionage and Operation Minced Meat was the reason for success in Normandy.

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The Soviets only got as far as they did due to pressure on both sides and American arms funneling to the Russian troops. People give Stalin far too much credit and praise.

You really, really need to check your sources. Between 75% and 85% (depending on actual time period) of German soldiers were on the eastern front. At least 75% of German casualties were on the eastern front. As for the "USSR only won because it was funneled with US / British / French supplies, you should check Lend Lease delivery schedule. By the time Germans were crushed in Stalingrad and Kursk Battle was already over, only just over 10% of Lend Lease supplies were delivered, just over 2m tonns of total cargo (about 2.5% of the estimated Soviet war effort production at that particular period). That is not to diminish the importance of these supplies. I am sure that they made things easier and saved lives. But they were not the deciding factor in the German defeat. After that, it was a continuous retreat for the Axis, all the way to Berlin.
PS: FYI, Lend Lease northern routes were suspended from February to sometime autumn 1943, so these battles were even less dependent on western supplies. Again, not to diminish the importance of these supplies, but they were not a question of life and death for the USSR. Aluminum, food, oil and gunpowder supplies were indeed welcome. Airacobras were also liked by many Soviet pilots, even though US pilots were not thrilled with them, due to perfect low altitude battle conditions for them (as opposed to high altitude combat in the Pacific).