Nobody expects the Draeneic Inquisition!! (Mag'har scenario spoilers)

[Varodoc]

So, wait, there is an AU Garrosh? I thought Garrosh's mother was killed by Ogres, how can there be an AU Garrosh?

Also, keep those Lightbound Draenei away from the Alliance. I've never been fond of fanatics.

[Deleted]

I think the point of this is to set up Light as the another possible force we will have to fight in the future (so it won't be light vs void but us vs both forces). X'era was first to show that naaru are overzealous and now this.

It looks like a setup for a new expansion, indeed. Yrel and her people attacking MU Azeroth. AU Army of Light

[Omedon]

I love how this whole angle turns Paladins into as much a "fight fire with fire" class as warlocks, death Knights and demon hunters! So much potential here for "Imperius" type villains!

[BlakeArt]

Is it only me that's bothered by the fact that the Mag'har, who are at war with the draenei (Yrel turned zealot, what, the, actual, fuck ?) and theyr own kind tought clever to deplete even further theyr ranks for another dimension conflict, like, no problem, really, we'll handle this easily, take some of our grunts. That's plainly stupid.
WHILE, at the same time, you've a f****** village of Mag'har doing nothing and ready to side with the Horde, since they already did it in the past to fight the alliance...

And, seriously, Yrel turned zealot, that just the opposite of everything they built for her, as usual...

Blizzard is past redemption about theyr bullshit lore.

[Rhlor]

Fun story, Maraad died to defend a bunch of fanatics.

Garrosh & Blackhand must be having a laugh in Draenorhell.

Bishop Garrosh must be giving a service in Karabor

[Psychotrip]

Is it only me that's bothered by the fact that the Mag'har, who are at war with the draenei (Yrel turned zealot, what, the, actual, fuck ?) and theyr own kind tought clever to deplete even further theyr ranks for another dimension conflict, like, no problem, really, we'll handle this easily, take some of our grunts. That's plainly stupid.
WHILE, at the same time, you've a f****** village of Mag'har doing nothing and ready to side with the Horde, since they already did it in the past to fight the alliance...

And, seriously, Yrel turned zealot, that just the opposite of everything they built for her, as usual...

Blizzard is past redemption about theyr bullshit lore.

This is what happens when you take moral relativity and interpret it as "all sides should be equally shitty"!

It's just amateurish.

Like I said earlier:

Since when have naaru forced their religion on others? Until X’era they always seemed completely chill. They never tried pushing their beliefs on the orcs in the 200 years they were on draenor either. I mean, there’s a demon just hanging out at the bar at shattrath city. Void using arakkoa just hang out there, and dragons infused with energy from the nether roam freely as well.

Shattrath itself is a chaotic menagerie of different people with different beliefs. This just feels like clumsy, out of character writing for the sake of moral relativity.

Shades of grey are great, but that doesn’t mean everything should be the same shade of gray. When you make everything equally bad, then there’s nothing left to fight for or side with.

WoW has always had a little moral relativity to it. Orcs, warlocks, death knights, demon hunters, the scarlet crusade, the horde as a whole. I’m all for a bit more ethical complexity as well.

But this is just going from one extreme to the other. Even the scourge was just misunderstood now. Poor Arthas was just trying to unite the world and stop the void lords. Whose the real bad guy? Him? Or us?!?!?

Give me a break.

I can tolerate people twisting the light out of their own traumatized madness (see: The Scarlet Crusade), but seeing the Draenei themselves, who are guided by the naaru for Christ's sake, fall prey to this Spanish Inquisition bullshit is where I draw the line.

[Deleted]

I mean, let's not delude ourselves. The orcs deserve everything they get, because all WoD showed us was that the orcs will go full-on genocide mode even without drinking demon blood.

Don't play the oppressed card here; you'll get no sympathy.

Amm no? The Eredar invaded Draenor ... it's like saying, in our world Europe gets flooded by muslims to the point they establish their own countries/ laws in Europe and then the Europeans fight back and are all of a sudden labelled as the bad guys? You do know you can't be the "good guy" if you're the one coming to another's world/ land without the inhabitants consent ...

This would mean Hitler, Napoleon, Genghis Khan were all good guys ...

Orcs had every right to go against the Eredar.

[DeicideUH]

So, Grommash was whitewashed, while Yrel gets hit by the villain bat because "LOL Light corrupts". Of course, maybe Yrel is really the hero and we are only seeing the mag'har PoV, but I really doubt this story will ever be fully covered. Hell, I hope it's forgotten for all eternity.

It's stupid. And worse, it's a retcon that clashes with old lore. We've been using the Light safely since the beginning of the franchise, and suddenly it not only is corruptive, but it also starts happening everywhere.

It's one thing to have a fanatic group misunderstanding the Light. It's nice to see a naaru that is dangerous. But it's stupid to make the Light itself corruptive.

Scarlet Crusade was crazy because it was the Scarlet Crusade. They were desperate, surrounded by enemies, manipulated by demons. It was not just "oh, we are in peaceful times and you used too much Light, lol".

The Arakkoa Adherents were corrupted because they were assholes. They wanted the Light for themselves. It was not just "oh, the Light corrupted us, lol".

And, to make matters worse, AU!Draenei still have the Auchenai, who deal with Shadow and should balance the Light, and the Rangari, who are pragmatists not linked to any magic power. If anything, the draenei should have been as divided as the orcs.

[Omedon]

"Since when have naaru forced their religion on others? Until X’era they always seemed completely chill."

Because we nodded along and forwarded their agenda! Our free will, now that it's really coming into focus, runs counter to their vision of the universe! That is the key opening for this "tyranny of the light" angle, and it's glorious!

[Azalar]

I'm honestly amused by people raging over the Light being evil.

Naaru are enforcers of the Light, if you're not touched by it, prepare to be converted. That is their TRUE nature.

Even though, elements are inherently neutral. It's not the Light that's evil, just the users.

[Thage]

Hard to feel sorry for the Mag'har when they willingly committed genocide and engaged in one overwhelming tactical blunder after another. Also nice to see Blizz throwing the draenei under the bus to force faction conflict and whitewash the fact that the AU orcs behaved almost as badly as the Old Horde without the demon blood influencing their actions and were forgiven just because Grom paid some lip service to the adventurers in a cinematic.

[Aucald]

Do we know for sure that Yrel is behind this turn in the AU Draenei's general society? A lot can happen in 30+ years relatively speaking, but the Yrel of WoD and the understudy of Velen doesn't seem like the kind of person that would countenance such a shift. Perhaps Yrel was deposed from the Council of Exarchs and is now an exile from her own people?

[Omedon]

I'm really, really happy with this whole development! Shadow and light are so deeply ingrained in both factions, but Anduin as the alliance figurehead desperately needed a "but" when put next to Sylvanas' "obvious evil" reputation! If the tyranny of the light is that "but," I'm suddenly ok with that being a point of either division or unity!

Also, those golden eyed bloodelves take on a whole new light now! Pun intended!

[Rendark]

Wow that's some really really bad writing but at least it's not as bad as what Games Workshop did with Warhammer. The end times and age of sigmar can go to hell.

[sighy]

Yeah but they have nothing to do with the Alliance. The Mag'har Orcs are literally trying to kill one group of Draenei over the actions of a completely different group.

The Mag'har who seem to claim they deserve none of the blame over the actions of the Iron Horde, or Fel Orcs.

- - - Updated - - -

Like... this is a culture literally built around the core concept of "Just because we're the same race as some bad guys doesn't mean we're bad guys"... And now they're going to war with one group of people just because they're the same race as some bad guys.

I literally just can not even.

They go into war with our world's dreanei, because they are in dept to our horde.(not making that up)

I said that the Army of the Light would be vastly more interesting if they had that attitude. Because thent ehy owuld actually be more distinct than "Normal Dreanei, but they glow yellowish"

[Aeula]

So, wait, there is an AU Garrosh? I thought Garrosh's mother was killed by Ogres, how can there be an AU Garrosh?

Also, keep those Lightbound Draenei away from the Alliance. I've never been fond of fanatics.

Well, Grom has an AU son, clearly though he has an inferior gene pool to the true Garrosh on the Mother’s side seeing as he went traitor.

[Rend Blackhand]

I think Blizzard really need to hammer home that the Light is not an entity capable of being good or evil, emphasise that the Light is a power that is at the user's discretion.

The Scarlet Crusade used the Light to murder and torture.

[Psychotrip]

I'm honestly amused by people raging over the Light being evil.

Naaru are enforcers of the Light, if you're not touched by it, prepare to be converted. That is their TRUE nature.

Even though, elements are inherently neutral. It's not the Light that's evil, just the users.

...Since when is that their true nature? Have you been to Outland-Shattrath lately? There's a demon just chilling in the bar, nether-infused drakes hanging out in the open, and arrakoa who use the void just walking around. The naaru themselves have acknowledged that light can't exist without void. Before X'era got involved, we had no indication that the naaru were anything but tolerant. I mean, look at the Auchenai for goodness sake. The light doesn't need to be intolerant.

This is just amateurish moral relativism. In their attempts to look deep and edgy they're coming off as a pretentious and immature.

"Since when have naaru forced their religion on others? Until X’era they always seemed completely chill."

Because we nodded along and forwarded their agenda! Our free will, now that it's really coming into focus, runs counter to their vision of the universe! That is the key opening for this "tyranny of the light" angle, and it's glorious!

I promise I'm not trying to be rude, but you know you can quote directly right? Just click "reply with quote".

In the meantime, here's what I said in full:

This is what happens when you take moral relativity and interpret it as "all sides should be equally shitty"!

It's just amateurish.

Like I said earlier:

Since when have naaru forced their religion on others? Until X’era they always seemed completely chill. They never tried pushing their beliefs on the orcs in the 200 years they were on draenor either. I mean, there’s a demon just hanging out at the bar at shattrath city. Void using arakkoa just hang out there, and dragons infused with energy from the nether roam freely as well.

Shattrath itself is a chaotic menagerie of different people with different beliefs. This just feels like clumsy, out of character writing for the sake of moral relativity.

Shades of grey are great, but that doesn’t mean everything should be the same shade of gray. When you make everything equally bad, then there’s nothing left to fight for or side with.

WoW has always had a little moral relativity to it. Orcs, warlocks, death knights, demon hunters, the scarlet crusade, the horde as a whole. I’m all for a bit more ethical complexity as well.

But this is just going from one extreme to the other. Even the scourge was just misunderstood now. Poor Arthas was just trying to unite the world and stop the void lords. Whose the real bad guy? Him? Or us?!?!?

Give me a break.

I can tolerate people twisting the light out of their own traumatized madness (see: The Scarlet Crusade), but seeing the Draenei themselves, who are guided by the naaru for Christ's sake, fall prey to this Spanish Inquisition bullshit is where I draw the line.

So far, their agenda has been "destroy the legion regardless of your religion, class, or cultural differences". The naaru have always welcomed everyone, be they warlocks, shadow priests, demon hunters, neutral demons, anyone who isn't actively working to make the lives of others miserable.

In the old lore, the light was a force derived from positive emotions like love, compassion, charity, tolerance, and cooperation. I get that everyone wants everything to be dark and shady and equally shitty, but moral relativity loses its intrigue and nuance when you start applying it to literally everything.

[Aeula]

So, Grommash was whitewashed, while Yrel gets hit by the villain bat because "LOL Light corrupts". Of course, maybe Yrel is really the hero and we are only seeing the mag'har PoV, but I really doubt this story will ever be fully covered. Hell, I hope it's forgotten for all eternity.

It's stupid. And worse, it's a retcon that clashes with old lore. We've been using the Light safely since the beginning of the franchise, and suddenly it not only is corruptive, but it also starts happening everywhere.

It's one thing to have a fanatic group misunderstanding the Light. It's nice to see a naaru that is dangerous. But it's stupid to make the Light itself corruptive.

Scarlet Crusade was crazy because it was the Scarlet Crusade. They were desperate, surrounded by enemies, manipulated by demons. It was not just "oh, we are in peaceful times and you used too much Light, lol".

The Arakkoa Adherents were corrupted because they were assholes. They wanted the Light for themselves. It was not just "oh, the Light corrupted us, lol".

And, to make matters worse, AU!Draenei still have the Auchenai, who deal with Shadow and should balance the Light, and the Rangari, who are pragmatists not linked to any magic power. If anything, the draenei should have been as divided as the orcs.

Well the light alone isn’t corrupting. It’s clear that the Naaru are the ones responsible for the Draenei’s newfound zealotry. Whether they’re mind controlled or doing it because they genuinely believe in the Naaru’s vision remains to be seen.

[Magnagarde]

Jesus Thrall Christ on a wheelchair, they really are on heavy drugs when coming up with this stuff.

Not only is the biggest mistake from WoD getting more relevance(whitewashed AU Grom), but they've killed off one of the most iconic orcs that we've questes alongside with(Durotan), while also doing a complete 180 on another fan favourite that players got to quest alongside with and witness the character develop(Y'rel). On top of this, they've come up with "Lightbound" orcs that are supposedly killing and oppressing their own kin. All of this was done to get one point across; that the Light can be as evil as the Void, but they've got that point across already and Light-using villains are present since vanilla.

Add to this the fact that Eitrigg is written to make absolutely no sense(ie "Pay us back the favour of disposing a tyrant... you know... you lol"), that Alleria's character is also a victim of Blizzard's attempt to portray Void-based races as protagonists and you have a complete shitshow. I mean, in all honesty, the Mag'har AR scenario makes void elves look like they've been written by a genius.