Fix the vote kick procedure - When and how?

[m4xc4v413r4]

System works as intended.
Is it 100% fair? No.
Do you have a way to fix it? I didn't see you share any.
Is there a way to fix it? Most probably not, since there's no way it would be fair for everyone in every situation.

[Gambit5555]

This is my point. Hence, why it doesn't 'work'...

- - - Updated - - -



Fully agree with all the above.

I'm thinking they bump it to a 4/5 vote yes, or 3 if one has dc'd etc. so to remove someone all active members have to vote yes.
I also think that the kick and kick reason should be sent to the person kicked and they have the chance to question the vote to a gm.

Any system where people can be removed for doing their job too well and too fast is not correct. It is that simple.

- - - Updated - - -



Or remove the kick option and also remove the re queue cooldown if you leave. Then go with the approach of 'if you don't like this run, you leave'

Or... run with people you know. Not going back to the days of people afking and being unable to remove. The system is working as intended.

[Temp name]

I've never seen that happen. Nobody has every complained when I go fast because I'm overgeared.

It's much more likely that an overgeared noob thinks he can solo the dungeon and is putting too much stress on the healer by pulling like an idiot. Nobody dying doesn't mean that it's fun.

It's also common courtesy in WoW to let the tank do all the pulling, even when you're overgeared. I only pull ahead if the tank afks, but Hunter pets can tank mythic dungeons so it's not an issue. I could taunt off him and do the whole dungeon by myself, but then why did I even queue for a group in the first place? Just run the dungeon alone. I solo dungeons all the time for the crafted legendary quests.

Need that 30 titanic essence

[Pooti]

This is my point. Hence, why it doesn't 'work'...

- - - Updated - - -



Fully agree with all the above.

I'm thinking they bump it to a 4/5 vote yes, or 3 if one has dc'd etc. so to remove someone all active members have to vote yes.
I also think that the kick and kick reason should be sent to the person kicked and they have the chance to question the vote to a gm.

Any system where people can be removed for doing their job too well and too fast is not correct. It is that simple.

- - - Updated - - -



Or remove the kick option and also remove the re queue cooldown if you leave. Then go with the approach of 'if you don't like this run, you leave'

I would say that these people want to actually PLAY and not be carried through. Which they pay for the game too, and to be fair heroic dungeons is "their" content. I say that as meaning it is easier and more casual friendly content. You may just want rewards for finishing, but they want the experience of playing the game. Neither of you are right or wrong, just different motives for doing the dungeon.
I do think that if you are kicked you should not get a deserter debuff.

[Deleted]

The votekick system is obsolete and can be used to annoy/harass people easily.

Back in WoD, I was so overgeared that I used to queu in random HC dungs and LFR raids as tank in Windwalker spec. I did this to farm the satchels with runes and 500g.

Most of the time, people were happy they got the quick 4 smg run, even tho sometimes I pulled toomuch and we wiped ( thr overall run was still miles faster).
I even tanked LFR bosses in Windwalker.

But sometimes, people were losing their shit. It was usually low geared people, that weren't even pulling their weight, but complained anyway and when someone vote kicks, people usually just click it away and bam, you're banned from RHC for 15 minutes.

[Sansnom]

That's why I have raised a post here, to discuss.

Another example, CoS, someone wrote to do the WQ in there, I don't really read chat when I'm running through a dungeon, sometimes see things, sometimes don't. I was heading to the WQ boss and still got kicked (presumably because I didn't reply and say yes). Again, system works well?

The only thing we know for certain is that you was kicked.

The reason as to why, we only have your side of the story. You might be right, you might be wrong that you did not deserve to be kicked.

Is the system working? Yes, it is a voting the system and the group voted. If they group does not want you in the group, they can vote to have you removed, which is what the system is for. It does not, never have, arbitrate whether the reason is justified, which is what you are asking for.

[Powerogue]

Generally as a rule of thumb try not to be the idiot who's being kicked, and if there's someone doing something stupid do everything in your power to counter them (tank pulling everything like a madman? throw some CCs and stuns in and make sure to redirect threat to them so the adds don't kill the healer, etc)

Doesn't mean I still don't get kicked occasionally for no good reason, but it helps. Choosing your phrasing can be very important. I've learned many, many ways to say "you're completely incompetent and killing the entire group" without actually saying that. I've dubbed it "constructive criticism."

[Enchant]

It's a tool that is used properly or misused. Not much more to say, other than toss a suggestion in-game. I have - to improve it. Anyhow, we've all had to use it or have been witness to someone else having to use it. I don't care for it personally, which I usually decline if an individual is kicking someone, mostly to piss off the player using the feature. However, sometimes it has to be used for the importance.

I can't speak for other players, but in my entire WoW career, I've only been kicked twice and that was from the same dungeon (TotT). Once on my Restoration Druid and once on my Mistweaver Monk. Oh well, move on. I could careless. It wont stop be me from displaying my Proven Healer title or rocking out my Arcane, Fire or Frost Mage Tower Challenge artifact appearances.

[Sliske]

Never been kicked. Had some people complain, I just never respond.

[Khallid]

Need that 30 titanic essence

Sure... but if you're still farming legendaries you're probably not that overgeared, and probably shouldn't be pulling all the dungeon at once.

[Grym]

3 people didn't want to play with the one person, the one person get kicked.

Sounds perfectly fair to me, it should be you conform to the 3 people, not the other way round.

[Deleted]

I've been kicked a couple of times for overpulling/speed clearing when im out of spec. for example, playing havoc (on my 974 ilvl DH) when i've queued as tank or feral on (ilvl 968 Druid) when i've queued as healer.

I dont need any help from the other 4 people in the group, but in order to get the essences I have to random queue it, i cant just solo it.

What we actually need is a way to solo queue this stuff to actually solo it. Or to be able to walk into a HC dungeon solo and still get the rewards rather than having this forced grouping.

[Temp name]

Sure... but if you're still farming legendaries you're probably not that overgeared, and probably shouldn't be pulling all the dungeon at once.

Been 970+ for the past 3 months, got my last legendary for my MS 1 month ago
Think I'm good

[rrayy]

OK - I'll drop a recent example, Cathedral, 1st Boss - run from the mobs who put vine on you. The priest did not do that and died, wrote ''ffs tank'' and initiated a kick which was successful. I whispered another guy who wrote something in the chat earlier and basically said ''wtf?'', he replied and said ''I voted no, fuck knows what their problem was''... I was then queue locked from a dungeon I needed for the final WQ (broken shore 8 WQ for the legionfall campaign questline).

But the system 'works' yes?

3 people voted yes. 3 is more than 2. Seems you have a hard time grasping the concept of "majority rules".

[FecundDecay]

So currently, end of expansion and people overgear content and they wish to quickly clear some daily pieces in the quickest time possible... random hcs for example.

So, if a tank (and dps often) can easily handle running through, gathering every mob and no one dies, but because some player can't handle that others have more gear/skill/knowledge they decide to QQ in the chat and then vote kick if it happens that you are unlucky enough to have 3 of 'these' people in your group. It's wrong, it's giving power to the people who can't handle it, and it locks you from certain dungeons (if you need the last boss for a WQ etc) and sometimes puts a CD on your ability to re-queue.

I've also been on alts and seen other people do this, and rather than the 'He's going toooo fast, I don't like it', I just think 'sweet, semi-afk, free speed run of this random hc' so why can't more people be normal?

It's wrong and needs working.

Over to you Blizz.

You sound like a petulant child. Not everyone wants to spend a whole run chasing behind some over-geared solo-hero who's taken it upon themselves to run ahead chain-pulling everything in the instance. Some of us are joining random NORMAL and HEROIC runs to actually DO THE RUN and enjoy ourselves. Maybe we're trying out tanking in a heroic, maybe we just hit 110 and are jumping into our first heroic on a new toon, or maybe we'd just like to enjoy the instance at the actual speed it was intended to be taken at - with people actually playing their proper roles.

Joining up with a random group of people and then deciding that you're going to "carry" the run whether they like it or not just makes YOU seem like a selfish and inconsiderate person - especially if people in your group are asking you to cut it out and slow down. This isn't a single player game, and YOUR enjoyment of a run is not somehow magically more important than the enjoyment of the other 4 people in your random group.

Now, I am one of those people who is sick and tired of overgeared players trying to solo random LFG groups - but guess what? BLIZZARD DOESN'T CARE. I have no option to report those people, as Blizzard doesn't consider it against their rules for a single person to chain-pull a whole instance against their groups wishes.... so our only recourse it to vote to kick the person doing it.

And GUESS WHAT AGAIN - Vote to Kick requires the majority of group members to vote yes, or it doesn't happen. That's working as intended.

So yes - if you join a random group, ruin the experience for the rest of your team, and the majority of them want you kicked - you get kicked. I fail to see how that's an issue, since the only other option for us would be LEAVING the run and taking a 30m long "deserter" debuff that keeps us from re-quing. No, we're not going to eat a debuff for a half hour just because you're too self-obsessed to stop ruining LFG groups for strangers who never asked you to "carry" them in the first place.

Stop with the victim routine - if you want to play in a selfish and inconsiderate way with no regard for your fellow players, then you deserve to get voted out of the group when they don't want you there.

Cry about it all you want - but that's how the system is intended to work, and there's no rational reason for it to change.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it's just annoying you happened to end up in a group where the majority doesn't understand the concept of a fast, free boost through HC.
The system isn't broken though

Or maybe we don't WANT and DID NOT ASK FOR your "fast free run."
There are any number of reasons that players joining random Normal and Heroic groups might want to take it at the proper pace.

No one should feel entitled to override the wishes of an entire group just because THEY want to speed through the run.
if YOU luck out and join a group that wants that, good for you - but if your group doesn't want that, they should have ever right to kick you to the curb.

They should be mature and ask you to stop first - but if you refuse to stop pulling everything despite being asked to stop, then you brought the vote to kick.

Perhaps if all you solo-hero players stopped pretending like you were doing people some huge favor by ruining their runs you wouldn't find yourselves so confused when you get kicked out of them. I join normal and heroic LFG groups on my 950+ toons all the time, and I've never been kicked from one once - because I don't ignore the wishes of my entire group and try soloing the place unless they specifically ask me to. Otherwise, I play the thing normally so they can enjoy it too. It's really not rocket science.

{QUOTED FROM BLIZZARD SUPPORT RESPONSE}
Game Master Stilggost here. To be clear about this issue, while you are welcome to use in-game reporting methods as you feel is necessary, other players going through the random dungeon queue and completing a dungeon at the speed of their choice is not a violation of any of our policies, and we will not take any action against those who choose to run Normal and Heroic dungeons in this way.

If you are frequently troubled by others moving through a dungeon more swiftly than you personally wish to progress, we would suggest forming your own group of like-minded players through guild groups, grouping with friends, or the custom group finder.

As long as characters are able to queue for in-game content at their character and equipment level, they are permitted to do so, and while we will allow those who disagree with the decisions of the group as a whole to be removed at the group's behest, similarly we will allow those the rest of the group chooses to keep by not successfully voting to remove them to remain in the group and continue to use the Looking For Dungeon tool.
----------------------------


SO, As you can clearly see - the only option blizzard has left us with is vote to kick.
We'll either try to kick someone, the majority of the group will agree, and they're gone...
Or the majority of the group does not vote to kick, and we have to either deal with it or leave the group.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Not sure one a single player should EVER be able to override the wishes of four other group members. How is that even remotely sane or fair?

- - - Updated - - -

I've been kicked a couple of times for overpulling/speed clearing when im out of spec. for example, playing havoc (on my 974 ilvl DH) when i've queued as tank or feral on (ilvl 968 Druid) when i've queued as healer.

I dont need any help from the other 4 people in the group, but in order to get the essences I have to random queue it, i cant just solo it.

What we actually need is a way to solo queue this stuff to actually solo it. Or to be able to walk into a HC dungeon solo and still get the rewards rather than having this forced grouping.

I'm sorry - but if you're queuing for any dungeon and then refusing to play the role you qued as, not only do you deserve to get kicked but you deserve a temp ban from LFG across the board. It's a shame they don't do that. You're abusing the system to get what YOU want regardless of how it impacts other players, which is ignorant to the extreme. You could just as easily form a group with people who WANT you to solo the place, and then you don't have to worry about upsetting them - or at the very least you could pretend to be a human being and ASK the rest of your group if they mind you soloing the place. If they say no - respect their wishes or don't get confused when they kick you.

You may "not need help," but that's not their problem - they might "not need" or want you soloing their 5-man, especially in a role you didn't actually que up with. What you actually need is some perspective.

[netherflame]

I have a strong suspicion this is what counts as "I gave feedback, but they don't listen" these days

The solution is: make friends, get a guild, run with them. Too much effort?

Social interaction in an MMORPG is so 2000s

[Battlebeard]

I got kicked a few times when I did a random HC. I can solo all the bosses quite fast on my Rogue, so to save time, I stealthed past everything and kill the bosses, clearing the dungeon and getting the 30 of those things (can't remember the name, you buy legendary with it) in record time. But sometimes, people get mad they miss the insanely low amount of AP or terrible ilvl HC gear and kick me for trying to save time for everyone.

Atleast I am appriciated 9/10 times but there is always that group sometimes that kicks...

[Benjen666]

if 3/5 of the group members want you gone, you're gone. I don't see an issue with it, I've done plenty of random heroics chain pulling everything, without being kicked.

Ok, let me help.

It is not often the kick happens, but 1 bullshit kick is 1 too many, so it's raised to discuss and not have all the self righteous talk about how they never get kicked... bravo on being a little slower.

I don't put any strain on the healer, I can solo m+5's nevermind random hcs without any heals. No aggro goes anywhere because I hit and keep aggro on everything as I run through.

People kick because they are strange. Just because one person raises the issue, doesn't mean they're the issue.

- - - Updated - - -

System works as intended.
Is it 100% fair? No.
Do you have a way to fix it? I didn't see you share any.
Is there a way to fix it? Most probably not, since there's no way it would be fair for everyone in every situation.

Look again, posted my idea.

- - - Updated - - -

I would say that these people want to actually PLAY and not be carried through. Which they pay for the game too, and to be fair heroic dungeons is "their" content. I say that as meaning it is easier and more casual friendly content. You may just want rewards for finishing, but they want the experience of playing the game. Neither of you are right or wrong, just different motives for doing the dungeon.
I do think that if you are kicked you should not get a deserter debuff.

Agree with all this.

- - - Updated - - -

The only thing we know for certain is that you was kicked.

The reason as to why, we only have your side of the story. You might be right, you might be wrong that you did not deserve to be kicked.

Is the system working? Yes, it is a voting the system and the group voted. If they group does not want you in the group, they can vote to have you removed, which is what the system is for. It does not, never have, arbitrate whether the reason is justified, which is what you are asking for.

Exactly, hence why this has been raised.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure... but if you're still farming legendaries you're probably not that overgeared, and probably shouldn't be pulling all the dungeon at once.

or want the tokens for alts or just running for boredom/fun etc

[ItsTiddles]

...or maybe we'd just like to enjoy the instance at the actual speed it was intended to be taken at - with people actually playing their proper roles.
-
There are any number of reasons that players joining random Normal and Heroic groups might want to take it at the proper pace.

What do you consider the "proper" or "intended" speed? Are you wanting groups to stop, CC, and pull 1 mob at a time? 2 mobs? 4? Going from the GM that you quoted, there is no intended/proper speed. It's subjective to the group. Sure, if the majority of the group disapproves, kick the other person/people. Ranting on the forums about people who run at their intended speed is the real childish thing here.

I'm sorry - but if you're queuing for any dungeon and then refusing to play the role you qued as, not only do you deserve to get kicked but you deserve a temp ban from LFG across the board. It's a shame they don't do that.

Also, who hurt you?

[Benjen666]

3 people voted yes. 3 is more than 2. Seems you have a hard time grasping the concept of "majority rules".

Again, another person who lacks the ability to read... not the point raised. Try again. F