Nobody expects the Draeneic Inquisition!! (Mag'har scenario spoilers)

[sighy]

Horde basically only interacted with the Frostwolf - which have been wiped out by the time of BFA, it seems.

So no, the Mag'har are more or less exclusively comprised of Iron Horde clans.

Durotan is dead, Draka is presumably doing something in our garrison, their daughter is the overlord, who comes with us.

[Magnagarde]

You seem to have forgotten that Maraad was one of those Light-wielding fanatics that is being talked about in this topic.

He was vengeful, not fanatical. His want for vengeance included making past mistakes right and stopping the orcs that he previously couldn't.

Y'rel and the rest, according to what is shown in the datamined texts, are extremely fanatical because their actions are based on strongly believing in a cause without needing much reason to get through with unreasonable actions.

[Teddybearavenger]

I mean, let's not delude ourselves. The orcs deserve everything they get, because all WoD showed us was that the orcs will go full-on genocide mode even without drinking demon blood.

Don't play the oppressed card here; you'll get no sympathy.

Oh really? So did you miss Orcs being 100% convinced that Azeroth was coming and we have to strike now before humans enslave us via elemental visions while also defeating the demon blood scenario to prove all of this thanks to Garrosh? The sole reason the wall was created was to invade first and place honor among the entire orc clans of defeating their enemies.

[Dagoth Ur]

Aka they are standard indoctrinated religious assholes. Gotta rev that chainsaw for when they knock the door.

Inb4 it gets to that point we need some kind of Light cult escaping support groups opened up all over Azeroth.

[Arrashi]

Inb4 it gets to that point we need some kind of Light cult escaping support groups opened up all over Azeroth.

New boss idea - room with 1000 doors and there are "Naaru witnesses" knocking on each and every one of them.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Heavensong.

Better, good job.

[Orby]

Wow that WoD aftermatch got dark lol....or shall I say 'light' huk huk huk

[Thage]

What was wrong doing durotan to die at the hands of religious fanatics? Lantresor is also fighting against the Lightbound and he was the enemy of the iron horde. and geyarah she was not born in the time of WoD
the laughing skull and the shadowmoon exiles

As I mentioned later in the thread, I'm not a fan of how the draenei do a sudden heel turn. I don't think Blizz is capable of the nuance required to make this seem like more than whitewashing the non-Frostwolf, Laughing Skull, and Shadowmoon Exile clans by presenting them as put upon victims. Logically, it's very easy to see how the draenei turned out this way considering the total lack of consequences the Iron Horde met for genocide and how the Maghar don't seem too fussed about said attempted genocide. But the writing skill simply isn't there on Blizzard's end to make it more than juvenile false equivalency.

[Ithekro]

More like the Blizz version of John Sheridan fighting against the powers of the Vorlons and the Shadows.

So the final raid will be the Adventures with Anduin and Sylvanas basically telling the Naaru and Old Gods to go fuck themselves and get the hell out of our universe.

[Varodoc]

By the way, I hope that the Mag'har wipe out those foolish Lightbound Draenei. I do NOT want them in the Alliance. They would only get in the Void Elves' ways. They would probably be disgusted by the Void Elves' presence... typical Light fanatics, unable to see their own sinful mistakes. As if the Light were so much better than the Void. The Void, while not a force of order, offers freedom at the very least. The Light chokes freedom. The Light IS evil. The atrocities committed upon these 'Lightbound' Orcs is proof of that.

[Wildberry]

I was busy for a few days, I come back and see that WoW lore has hit new lows.

There's no saving the story at this point. We need to move on to Warcraft IV, and just give the train wreck that is WoW the RPG treatment.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I was busy for a few days, I come back and see that WoW lore has hit new lows.

There's no saving the story at this point. We need to move on to Warcraft IV, and just give the train wreck that is WoW the RPG treatment.

Think about it, Garrosh was right all along.

[Wildberry]

Think about it, Garrosh was right all along.

Oh he was right, but this is too big a price, even for me. We need to pick up right after TFT and pretend WoW just never happened. Think about all of the horrible arcs we can just erase.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The nihilism continues to creep into WoW.

The Fel and Scourge corruption of the OG games were representative of evil; of people succumbing to the temptation of power, and those who would abandon their morals and shortcut their way to their desires. Was later retconned to "oh, these people using the Fel were actually trying to save the world from a greater threat! They're not evil, just grey" and "Oh, these powers aren't inherently evil; they can be used for good! You just have to not give in to the corruption and mindcontrol." As of Legion, you can throw the Void into this pile as well.

The Light was once representative of the faith of the virtuous characters in the setting, people who had standards, unwilling to cross certain moral boundaries no matter the situation, because nothing justified "doing evil to do good", with Uther and Tirion being the two triumphant examples. They offered their enemies forgiveness and persevered through the injustices dealt to them. Admittedly, the Light's characterization was held back by the fact that the Scarlet Crusaders were able to call upon the Light as they performed their villainous acts, but the overall message was there. Then the Cataclysm struck, and the Light continues to be re-contextualized as "grey, just another side of the same coin as the fel/void", with Legion being the hammer in the coffin.

If everyone exists as some sort of "grey" character, being neither "evil" nor "good", with no morally anchored convictions, then it becomes difficult for me to give a damn about what happens in the story. It's a good thing that Blizzard has finally begun moving away from retreading the same characters and plotlines over and over and over again, but they need to replace them with story ideas equally as good. So far, they've only managed to kill off great characters, twist existing characterizations and introduce crap characters. The number of characters and ideas I care about in this setting is dwindling very quickly, and given the direction of the narrative, I'm not sure if I'll even care about the WoW story going forward outside of what new transmog and zone aesthetics they will bring.

- - - Updated - - -

This is all before we get into the character assassination of The Light (the OG Light, not the abomination that is the post-Cataclysm version of it), the Draenei (the BC version, not the Legion), or the Orc/Draenei characters themselves, but that has been beaten to death in the thread already, so I digress.

[Lahis]

By the way, I hope that the Mag'har wipe out those foolish Lightbound Draenei. I do NOT want them in the Alliance. They would only get in the Void Elves' ways. They would probably be disgusted by the Void Elves' presence... typical Light fanatics, unable to see their own sinful mistakes. As if the Light were so much better than the Void. The Void, while not a force of order, offers freedom at the very least. The Light chokes freedom. The Light IS evil. The atrocities committed upon these 'Lightbound' Orcs is proof of that.

We already have Light fanatic Draenei.

[Vladier]

I'm actually intrigued by this development and hope that Alliance actually gets to explore the whole Lightbound thing. Perhaps as an attempt at recruiting the AU Draenei after finding out about the Mag'har orcs coming from there and deciding that it would be a good idea to call upon the old friendships. What happened to the Auchenai who are Void researchers? If this is doing of a Naaru like Xe'ra or even AU version of Xe'ra, judging by the whole "scars" spiel, would the Auchenai be excommunicated or forcibly converted? What happened to K'ara? Xe'ra hated the Void so much that she never even told the Lightforged about the Naaru Light-Void cycle despite the danger of herself being wounded in the war. Would she condemn K'ara and imprison her?

Imagine the scenario of High Exarch Yrel cordially welcoming the Alliance ambassadors (with Velen as one of them) and her player friend and showing what they achieved after 35 years, and it's all very shiny, everyone, including the orcs, is in perfect harmony, but also creepily serene. And there are messengers who show up with reports on the conversion process of the remaining Mag'har, and the dark side of this apparent Utopia shows its face, making Velen suspicious. Possibilities are many.

[Deleted]

I personally found this highly problematic as the Draenei in both Timelines were victims of orcish attempts of commiting total genocides against them, in the main universe nearly successful. Its kinda sickening that the Orcs after all their deeds and their unapologetic behavior afterwards are always portrayed as the victims, while their evil deeds that stem from an culture that glorifies violence, sadism and the commitment to atrocities are always ignored.

In the end, Blizzard would have had the opportunity to write an storyline fitting for the 21st century where the Orcs acknowledge the toxic aspects of their culture that lead them in all scenarios to start genocidal wars against races that never harmed or endangered them in any way and change their culture and their outlook on the world.

[Varodoc]

We already have Light fanatic Draenei.

The Lightforged are nothing like the Lightbound. Yrel seeks to indoctrinate everyone in the Light. What she is doing is senseless murder motivated by a lust for justice and peace. Turalyon is not like that. Turalyon does not care if you worship the Void or the Fel so long as you defend Azeroth. He even worked with Death Knights, Demon Hunters, Warlocks and Orcs during the Invasion of Argus. His own wife is now a Void-infused individual, and yet he is not disgusted by her.

The Lightforged are faithfully loyal to the Light. But they are not blind extremists like the Lightbound.

[Doomchicken]

So....do they actually show these lightbound being evil dicks or do we just have to take the maghars word that this is actually happening the way they are saying it is happening?

[Varodoc]

So....do they actually show these lightbound being evil dicks or do we just have to take the maghars word that this is actually happening the way they are saying it is happening?

For now, the Mag'har's word is the best source there is. It could be a red herring, which means that the Lightbound were the good guys all along and the writers deceived us... but I doubt that they are that smart.

They will probably show the Lightbound do evil stuff in the Mag'har recruitment scenario. And yet, these Lightbound Orcs could possibly be a new Allied Race for the Alliance with Lightbound AU Garrosh, so they will probably not make these Lightbound completely evil. It would be so funny to see Garrosh and his loyal Orcs fight for the Alliance! The ultimate 'middle finger' to Garrosh's fans.