[8.0] Battle of Azeroth Protection discussion thread

[Quaade]

You're looking at the future and missing the bigger picture. That IP is gone for nothing makies our only mitigation RNG. Even if we have 99,9% Block, someone will hit that 0,01% chance and melt since they never block, dying for no fault of their own.

And with SW and LS being on GCD you have to expect the unexpected or in other words be able to see the future and getting rich on the lottery
numbers would be more enjoyable than that

[Deleted]

You're looking at the future and missing the bigger picture. That IP is gone for nothing makies our only mitigation RNG. Even if we have 99,9% Block, someone will hit that 0,01% chance and melt since they never block, dying for no fault of their own.

And with SW and LS being on GCD you have to expect the unexpected or in other words be able to see the future and getting rich on the lotto numbers would be more enjoyable than that.

Did you forget Shield Block or?

[Quaade]

Did you forget Shield Block or?

No, I remembered that, however with a longer CD, shorter duration and increased Ragecost it's a nonfactor in our overall mitigation over time. It can improve our tanking in a cluth however as it is on Beta, it's counter to the appearent goal of Warrior being the face tank.

At least the duration have been brought back to normal in a recent patch, the rest is still shit however.

- - - Updated - - -

I forgot that with the changes there are now five talents which are mandatory. Punish, Bolster, Devastator, Heave Repurcussions and Vengeance. That's patently absurd.

Talents should be a "nice have" that improves an allready existing skill a bit or alters it a bit by giving it an ability it lacked before, nothing nig, instead for Prot warriors they're "must have" as they define the only mitigation the spec has.

[Deleted]

No, I remembered that, however with a longer CD, shorter duration and increased Ragecost it's a nonfactor in our overall mitigation over time. It can improve our tanking in a cluth however as it is on Beta, it's counter to the appearent goal of Warrior being the face tank.

At least the duration have been brought back to normal in a recent patch, the rest is still shit however.

- - - Updated - - -

I forgot that with the changes there are now five talents which are mandatory. Punish, Bolster, Devastator, Heave Repurcussions and Vengeance. That's patently absurd.

Talents should be a "nice have" that improves an allready existing skill a bit or alters it a bit by giving it an ability it lacked before, nothing nig, instead for Prot warriors they're "must have" as they define the only mitigation the spec has.

This just isnt true. Shield block is still a very good AM its just not enugh in itself

Into the frey is generally better then Punish. Punish is mostly going to be used against spelldamage bosses or bosses where its unfeassable to stand near anyone most of the fight.

Devestator is shit. Its the worst talent of that tier.

Anger management and booming voice is used atm beacuse it gives us higher uptime on our cd's which in turn means we have more defensive oppertunities without having a 2nd proper AM.

Vengeance isnt even good since we dont have issues using SB on cd most of the time anyway.

YOu are way off here pal

[thebdc]

And with SW and LS being on GCD

They aren't. And neither is SB.

[Deleted]

They aren't. And neither is SB.

Shockwave is on the gcd. But last stand isnt.

Edit:
Ah shield wall. Sorry. Yep thats off the gcd

[Quaade]

This just isnt true. Shield block is still a very good AM its just not enugh in itself

Into the frey is generally better then Punish. Punish is mostly going to be used against spelldamage bosses or bosses where its unfeassable to stand near anyone most of the fight.

Devestator is shit. Its the worst talent of that tier.

Anger management and booming voice is used atm beacuse it gives us higher uptime on our cd's which in turn means we have more defensive oppertunities without having a 2nd proper AM.

Vengeance isnt even good since we dont have issues using SB on cd most of the time anyway.

YOu are way off here pal

No, you only see the nect step, in which they're good. I see the whole picture and those talents can reduce the damage we take.

Nothing else will really matter in the end than our ability to survive.

Consistency is better than anything. If a healer sees a warrior tank and automatically think "this will be stresfull," guess who is sorted out first?

Also I never gave you permission to call me "pal" and I vertaintly never allowed you to use it in a derogatory manner that belittled me.

In that case let me call you a waste of air. If you dislike that then reflect on what happens when you insult other people in order to "win" an argument.

[Deleted]

No, you only see the nect step, in which they're good. I see the whole picture and those talents can reduce the damage we take.

Nothing else will really matter in the end than our ability to survive.

Consistency is better than anything. If a healer sees a warrior tank and automatically think "this will be stresfull," guess who is sorted out first?

Also I never gave you permission to call me "pal" and I vertaintly never allowed you to use it in a derogatory manner that belittled me.

In that case let me call you a waste of air. If you dislike that then reflect on what happens when you insult other people in order to "win" an argument.

I'm trying to make sense of your post but i cant. You arent really presenting any arguments to counter mine except saying "i know better". Thats just not how it works.

Sorry not sorry that you felt belittled, thats on you

I'm all for having discussions in here but there is no discussion to be had if you cant present your case

Edit:
Just as a followup here.

Into the frey is taken because its a massive increase to haste and both increases our rage income and reduces the cooldown of SB amongst other things. Its absolutely vital to us atm.

Devestator no longer gives more rage, but booming voice does. Having booming voice means we can get shield block up on pull instead of having to wait several gcd's which is extremely important. It also further helps but i'l explain that in the next parahraph.

Vengeance is useless atm. We dont need abilities to cost less we want our rage income to be as high as possible and our cooldowns as low as possible so we can spend more rage reason coming in a sec.

Anger management. This is it. This is what our entire spec revolves around atm. The more rage we get and spend the less CD we will have on major defensive cooldowns which helps us out when lacking a second AM, but especially also because it reduces the cd of Demo shout which is what we use to generate extra rage and spend it on revenge to start it all over again.

Thats our best build atm because demoralizing shout reduces damage, increase our damage and reduces spelldamage aswell.

If you have any actual counters to these i'd love to discuss them with you

[Quaade]

Shockwave is on the gcd. But last stand isnt.

Edit:
Ah shield wall. Sorry. Yep thats off the gcd

Glad that has been reverted. An emergency ability unable to be used in an emergency is dumb beyond all reason.

- - - Updated - - -

Punish does something which ItF never does, increase our mitigation. At some points out mitigation becomes more important than our damage reduction as that's our bread and butter.

Improving our damage and the CD on Shield Slam further increases our damage. Damage increases should be a nice perk, never a focus.

In any group I've tanked for, in appropriate content, they've always been more impressed with my ability to reduce damage taken than my DPS done. One group even told me "you're not here to do damage."

Devastator improves Punish, albeit it slightly, that's more important than getting rage on pull and Shield Block up as there'll be a gap where we have nothing anyway.

Vengenance makes our abilities cheaper, right now I've no trust on Rage generation as Protection seems too high and Arms wat roo low. I expect both to be adressed at some point. And no, it has nothing to do with pessimism. I've learned to expect the worst so whatever goes wrong seems less important. Do you know what the worst I had to prepare myself for? A burnt corpse in a chair.

The bonuses we get from Anger Management is nice and as I've said previously if we use them whenever we can then we're unable to use them in case of an actual emergency. I've prevented several TPK because I saved them for an emergendy, even letting them sit unused for long periods.

Heavy Repurcusions makes us better more often and more releably. A reduced CD on DS trough AM is largely useless in the long run as there'll be times when it's no there and in those times we have no mitigation from it.

So in short let me return your snide "I know better remark" "If you haave any actual counters I'd love to discuss them with you." Translated "I've allready decided that any counter you do make is irrellevant and is saying it so I look nice."

[Deleted]

I played a couple of dungeons with the "new" IP and for me the biggest problem is the GCD. In dungeons we are already pretty GCD locked with devastator by just pressing our DPS/rotation buttons (SS, TC and Rev). Even during bossfights there are not that many free GCDs to use IP and Bolster. With IP back in and Bolster + IP on the GCD, i dont see myself playing with Bolster at all. Maybe in a raid scenario Bolster will be a nice choice, but in M+ i will probably go to Never Surrender and hope to get some value out of it.

I dont have a problem with Avatar being on the GCD. Even Demo Shout is not a big problem for me, because i have never been a fan of playing with anger management/booming voice. But IP and Bolster are buttons that should not be on the GCD. It just feels teerible to play with and i really hope Blizz will remove the GCD on atleast IP.

[Krom2040]

I hate the way Protection plays now. Hate is a strong word, but... I think that's really how I feel about it.

Ignore Pain being on the GCD just kills the rotation. It feels very clunky, and having to choose between rage generation and healing is completely awful.

I may have to consider playing a Paladin or DK if this is really how they intend for the class to play now.

[Grimbold21]

Excuse me, am i blind or unaware of any info, or is Avatar not on my spellbook

[McJiggles]

Try swapping to another spec and back again. This happened to me as well when i signed in already specced as protection.

[Jastall]

I hate the way Protection plays now. Hate is a strong word, but... I think that's really how I feel about it.

Ignore Pain being on the GCD just kills the rotation. It feels very clunky, and having to choose between rage generation and healing is completely awful.

I may have to consider playing a Paladin or DK if this is really how they intend for the class to play now.

Prot is the spec I play that is the most affected by the shit GCD change.

That said, you don't use IP that often now.

[Krom2040]

Prot is the spec I play that is the most affected by the shit GCD change.

That said, you don't use IP that often now.

Yeah, Prot Pally and Blood DK *basically* play the same, as far as I can tell. IP just isn't powerful enough to have been forced into that position. The whole gameplay model sucks now. You build a ton of rage that you can't even spend without sacrificing either rage-building or AoE threat.

[Jastall]

Yeah, Prot Pally and Blood DK *basically* play the same, as far as I can tell. IP just isn't powerful enough to have been forced into that position. The whole gameplay model sucks now. You build a ton of rage that you can't even spend without sacrificing either rage-building or AoE threat.

I think in dungeons the spec is crazy fun. Into the Fray + Unstoppable Force + good ol Voice + AM makes for a quick and highly effective playstyle.

In raids, in terms of sheer survival cooldowns, Prot is a bit lackluster, but I don't think it is that awful. And Bolster is also a great talent. The baseline, talentless spec definitely sucks tho.

[Dodgingbears]

Glad that has been reverted. An emergency ability unable to be used in an emergency is dumb beyond all reason.

- - - Updated - - -

Punish does something which ItF never does, increase our mitigation. At some points out mitigation becomes more important than our damage reduction as that's our bread and butter.

Improving our damage and the CD on Shield Slam further increases our damage. Damage increases should be a nice perk, never a focus.

In any group I've tanked for, in appropriate content, they've always been more impressed with my ability to reduce damage taken than my DPS done. One group even told me "you're not here to do damage."

Devastator improves Punish, albeit it slightly, that's more important than getting rage on pull and Shield Block up as there'll be a gap where we have nothing anyway.

Vengenance makes our abilities cheaper, right now I've no trust on Rage generation as Protection seems too high and Arms wat roo low. I expect both to be adressed at some point. And no, it has nothing to do with pessimism. I've learned to expect the worst so whatever goes wrong seems less important. Do you know what the worst I had to prepare myself for? A burnt corpse in a chair.

The bonuses we get from Anger Management is nice and as I've said previously if we use them whenever we can then we're unable to use them in case of an actual emergency. I've prevented several TPK because I saved them for an emergendy, even letting them sit unused for long periods.

Heavy Repurcusions makes us better more often and more releably. A reduced CD on DS trough AM is largely useless in the long run as there'll be times when it's no there and in those times we have no mitigation from it.

So in short let me return your snide "I know better remark" "If you haave any actual counters I'd love to discuss them with you." Translated "I've allready decided that any counter you do make is irrellevant and is saying it so I look nice."

People that post like you only serve to make yourselves seem more insecure. You are a snowflake. Both of you had good points drowned by your poor attitude. Move on. No one came here to read about you, just Protection Warriors.

[Quaade]

People that post like you only serve to make yourselves seem more insecure. You are a snowflake. Both of you had good points drowned by your poor attitude. Move on. No one came here to read about you, just Protection Warriors.

By intoning the word "snowflake" and making assumptions about our thoughts you just invalidated yourself by using a right wing insult by people who are the easily triggered snowflakes that hey project everyone of their ideological opponents are.

[melodramocracy]

Not sure if I'm missing something, or this has been posted already... but messing around with the talents for Prot, it appears that Devastator is defined as a passive, which means you can no longer put it on your bars at all (even though it replaces Devastate, which does behave correctly.)

Maybe just an add-on issue? Anyone else getting this?

[Bigbazz]

Not sure if I'm missing something, or this has been posted already... but messing around with the talents for Prot, it appears that Devastator is defined as a passive, which means you can no longer put it on your bars at all (even though it replaces Devastate, which does behave correctly.)

Maybe just an add-on issue? Anyone else getting this?

Devastator has always worked this way, it removes Devastate as an ability and puts the damage/effect into auto-attack. Pretty sure the only reason you could have it on your bars prior was because it replaces Devastate and you left the Devastate ability on your bars, which becomes inactive.