Rogue 8.0 Discussion

[RobertoCarlos]

yeah I thought so, so you have no idea about the difference between design and balance.

you can balance the rolls to have similar dps gains

one of the biggest problems is that they still havent got rid of the CDR roll and the roll all 5 at once thing.

you could make outlaw 100% RNG with slice and dice all the same if you wanted to.

and you can make RTB a lot less RNG if you wanted to.

RtB is a balancing nightmare unless you attach all kind of crappy rules like no 6 rolls.

Its a badly designed ability because its near impossible to tune properly. You cant have the awesome 6 roll buff and have meaningful single buffs at the same time without crazy variance

[shaunika123]

RtB is a balancing nightmare unless you attach all kind of crappy rules like no 6 rolls.

Its a badly designed ability because its near impossible to tune properly. You cant have the awesome 6 roll buff and have meaningful single buffs at the same time without crazy variance

but you dont need 6roll, you cant complain about RTB being shit and then want 6roll at the same time, it makes no sense.

if they made it 2 rolls guaranteed and removed true bearing it'd be completely fine

it's only a balancing nightmare because blizzard wants it to be one.

[RobertoCarlos]

but you dont need 6roll, you cant complain about RTB being shit and then want 6roll at the same time, it makes no sense.

if they made it 2 rolls guaranteed and removed true bearing it'd be completely fine

it's only a balancing nightmare because blizzard wants it to be one.

So you make RtB just 2 rolls? Whats the point? How is that different gameplay to SnD with just different stat buffs instead?

[shaunika123]

So you make RtB just 2 rolls? Whats the point? How is that different gameplay to SnD with just different stat buffs instead?

because instead of a static bland attack speed buffs it will slightly feel differently with every roll?

sometimes you crit more, sometimes you have more energy sometimes you have more combo points etc.
it adds diversity to the rotation.

[RobertoCarlos]

because instead of a static bland attack speed buffs it will slightly feel differently with every roll?

sometimes you crit more, sometimes you have more energy sometimes you have more combo points etc.
it adds diversity to the rotation.

Right totally different. Seems to me you are trying to make 2minute noodles sound like wagyu beef

[shaunika123]

Right totally different. Seems to me you are trying to make 2minute noodles sound like wagyu beef

and you'd rather eat mcdonalds than have a real burger but without ketchup

[RobertoCarlos]

and you'd rather eat mcdonalds than have a real burger but without ketchup

RtB isnt a real burger. Its a half baked, class "fantasy" sholved piece of trash that is a nightmare to balance. When a skill is putting so much work into balancing it, maybe theres a problem with a skill?

They removed skill trees from us because it was too difficult to balance or so they claimed anyway, why should we trust them to get it right with this?

They removed toggle on/off blade furry which was a good move to getting the spec towards potentially being strong while also not being OP or shit, they should double down on that and remove RtB and give us a different talent and SnD baseline

[shaunika123]

RtB isnt a real burger. Its a half baked, class "fantasy" sholved piece of trash that is a nightmare to balance. When a skill is putting so much work into balancing it, maybe theres a problem with a skill?

They removed skill trees from us because it was too difficult to balance or so they claimed anyway, why should we trust them to get it right with this?

They removed toggle on/off blade furry which was a good move to getting the spec towards potentially being strong while also not being OP or shit, they should double down on that and remove RtB and give us a different talent and SnD baseline

again, the problem isnt that it's a balancing nightmare
the problem is that they're sticking to aspects of the spell that is.

anyway, be reasonable, what's more likely to happen, blizzard completely removing the spell or tweaking it more?

pointlessly whining to go back to the bland state of old combat because it was "easier to balance" is... well... pointless
why not give proper feedback instead?

would you really rather have a bland tasteless piece of crap, instead of a proper compromise?

[RobertoCarlos]

again, the problem isnt that it's a balancing nightmare
the problem is that they're sticking to aspects of the spell that is.

anyway, be reasonable, what's more likely to happen, blizzard completely removing the spell or tweaking it more?

pointlessly whining to go back to the bland state of old combat because it was "easier to balance" is... well... pointless
why not give proper feedback instead?

would you really rather have a bland tasteless piece of crap, instead of a proper compromise?

Nice cherry picking parts and ignoring where I said give us a different talent. Ie one that hopefully changes the gameplay in interesting ways, is not gonna wildly swing dps logs around every pull and feels good to use.

And it wouldnt be the first time blizzard have removed a spell, cold blood still haunts me to this day so forgive me if I dont think they wouldnt scrap good ideas. Not that I think RtB is a good idea but you are clearly a fan.

They already have expanded on old school combat with pistol procs and bigger finisher with the outlaw legendary bracers which are returning in azerite trait so they could continue in that difference with the spec to make a interesting rotation outside of rng gimmicks

they could rework cannon barrage into the rotation and make it interesting instead of being a dead talent for a start

[shaunika123]

Nice cherry picking parts and ignoring where I said give us a different talent. Ie one that hopefully changes the gameplay in interesting ways, is not gonna wildly swing dps logs around every pull and feels good to use.

And it wouldnt be the first time blizzard have removed a spell, cold blood still haunts me to this day so forgive me if I dont think they wouldnt scrap good ideas. Not that I think RtB is a good idea but you are clearly a fan.

They already have expanded on old school combat with pistol procs and bigger finisher with the outlaw legendary bracers which are returning in azerite trait so they could continue in that difference with the spec to make a interesting rotation outside of rng gimmicks

they could rework cannon barrage into the rotation and make it interesting instead of being a dead talent for a start

none of those things are mutually exclusive with a properly designed RTB tho.

I just dont want slice and dice back, that ability is quite literally the most boring ability in the entire game.

[RobertoCarlos]

none of those things are mutually exclusive with a properly designed RTB tho.

I just dont want slice and dice back, that ability is quite literally the most boring ability in the entire game.

Also another thing they need to do with the spec is move acrobatic strike from the same tier as grappling hook. In fact make acrobatic and grapp hook baseline and create a new talent that buffs grappling hook by giving it 2 charges and increased length/travel speed, because rogue is supposed to be mobile and the spec feels sluggish as fuck because of "class fantasy of being a pirate grnawww" i play rogue for speed, Id play DK if I want to be a slow moving brawler

[shaunika123]

Also another thing they need to do with the spec is move acrobatic strike from the same tier as grappling hook. In fact make acrobatic and grapp hook baseline and create a new talent that buffs grappling hook by giving it 2 charges and increased length/travel speed, because rogue is supposed to be mobile and the spec feels sluggish as fuck because of "class fantasy of being a pirate grnawww" i play rogue for speed, Id play DK if I want to be a slow moving brawler

I think acro being baseline would be a tad too broken

and pretty sure GH is baseline in BFA atm and you get a talent that halves its CD

[RobertoCarlos]

I think acro being baseline would be a tad too broken

and pretty sure GH is baseline in BFA atm and you get a talent that halves its CD

Why? its a bit of "class fantasy" that doesnt suck, and they put it on the same row as your mobility in legion

[elfporn]

slowing aggramar elementals for example? it was also decent in gorefiend
and the reason there's no enrages to dispel is because they removed it :P
if soothe is coming back there's no reason shiv shouldnt



explain why RTB is bad without saying "because it makes dmg RNG"
because that's not ap roblem with RTB that's a problem with balancing the rolls properly.

There are more effective methods of slowing/cc for aggramar adds, notably warlock's endless corruption. I was the emergency slow for it a few times though.

If shiv still was an offensive enrage dispel, it would be immensely useful on aggramar.

I did include the qualifier "outside of raids" Raid encounters cover all sorts of crap, esp with their ever shifting design philosophies.

- - - Updated - - -

RtB isnt a real burger. Its a half baked, class "fantasy" sholved piece of trash that is a nightmare to balance. When a skill is putting so much work into balancing it, maybe theres a problem with a skill?

They removed skill trees from us because it was too difficult to balance or so they claimed anyway, why should we trust them to get it right with this?

They removed toggle on/off blade furry which was a good move to getting the spec towards potentially being strong while also not being OP or shit, they should double down on that and remove RtB and give us a different talent and SnD baseline

Im 100% with shaunika on this one.

If they fully committed to baking TB into restless blades, removed that roll from rtb, then they would have an immensely easier time balancing. They could even add 1-2 more synergistic buffs to rtb.

I'd like to get rid of the 5/6 roll too - make it roll 2 or 3 buffs to narrow variance and smooth balancing.

The ability is an excellent piece of the rotation, but the variance introduced with the including of true bearing throws the entire spec off.

[shaunika123]

There are more effective methods of slowing/cc for aggramar adds, notably warlock's endless corruption.

if blizzard removed everything cos "something does it better" we wouldnt have too much stuff :P

[RobertoCarlos]

There are more effective methods of slowing/cc for aggramar adds, notably warlock's endless corruption. I was the emergency slow for it a few times though.

If shiv still was an offensive enrage dispel, it would be immensely useful on aggramar.

I did include the qualifier "outside of raids" Raid encounters cover all sorts of crap, esp with their ever shifting design philosophies.

- - - Updated - - -



Im 100% with shaunika on this one.

If they fully committed to baking TB into restless blades, removed that roll from rtb, then they would have an immensely easier time balancing. They could even add 1-2 more synergistic buffs to rtb.

I'd like to get rid of the 5/6 roll too - make it roll 2 or 3 buffs to narrow variance and smooth balancing.

The ability is an excellent piece of the rotation, but the variance introduced with the including of true bearing throws the entire spec off.

I think they can do better, and even with all your rules which they have not done yet, seems like settling for what you are given.

I agree fully removing TB from it would be a good idea but they seem content with having it on there still, saves them the work of thinking up a different buff

- - - Updated - - -

Some sub changes

Shuriken Tornado

Focus your energies, then release a Shuriken Storm every sec for the next 4 sec. Subtlety Rogue - Level 100 Talent. 60 Energy. Instant. 60 sec cooldown. 1 sec global cooldown.

new weaponmaster is laaaame

Shadowstrike and Backstab have a 15% chance to hit the target twice each time they deal damage

[Varolyn]

Biggest issue with the new talent is the name. "Tornadoes" and "rogues" just don't go well together. Same could be said for Shuriken storm honestly.

[sjb10287]

I think they can do better, and even with all your rules which they have not done yet, seems like settling for what you are given.

I agree fully removing TB from it would be a good idea but they seem content with having it on there still, saves them the work of thinking up a different buff

- - - Updated - - -

Some sub changes

Shuriken Tornado

Focus your energies, then release a Shuriken Storm every sec for the next 4 sec. Subtlety Rogue - Level 100 Talent. 60 Energy. Instant. 60 sec cooldown. 1 sec global cooldown.

new weaponmaster is laaaame

Shadowstrike and Backstab have a 15% chance to hit the target twice each time they deal damage

Shuriken Tornado is interesting for push single target in a pack of mobs, but there could be energy capping issues.

Weaponmaster could have been something like 15% to refresh nightblade, something interesting atleast.

[omeomorfismo]

wtf, basically they give poison bomb on click to sub <.<

[Emberpaws]

wtf, basically they give poison bomb on click to sub <.<

and poison bomb also costs 60 energy + a global right?