Why blizzard didn't put in end of expansion zone wide nerfs in Antorus ?

[Osmeric]

Do you even listen to yourself?
I play basketball (a sport) on the lowest level possible in my town. I feel that playing in the world cup for fotball (another sport) is way to hard at the moment and therefore i think that they should lower the demands so more people that has no right to be there should have a shot at it.

May I suggest you learn to read for comprehension? Your analogy there has nothing to do with my statement you quoted. I was talking about how one should judge if content is easy, not whether it should be easy.

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I think you fail to realize that most players simply have no interest in the matter. If anyone who had a interest in mythic raiding would be mythic raiding. Calling a 1/11 mythic guild the best players in the game is a laughable statement.

They aren't the best players, but they're better than most players. The blues have commented how the good players are often just clueless how big the gap is between them and the typical player.

[Deleted]

I dunno why people say that you don't need to farm AP. I had good 4 months of "not farming it", with only AP from raids and m+ cache, and I barely gotten any levels. The cache gives me less than 10%, and I'm not even 80.

[Deleted]

I dunno why people say that you don't need to farm AP. I had good 4 months of "not farming it", with only AP from raids and m+ cache, and I barely gotten any levels. The cache gives me less than 10%, and I'm not even 80.

Just because you do not get that anything past 75 is close to irrelevant does not mean you have to farm any ap at all.

[Deleted]

Just because you do not get that anything past 75 is close to irrelevant does not mean you have to farm any ap at all.

I did not really understand your sentence, but I will assume you misunderstood the context. I was saying that in relation to people claiming that AP is the nerf mechanic and that you do not need to farm it to get the benefits, while expressing my disbelief, as for me there was no real power progression since the new year's.

[Deleted]

There's no benefit to farming ap thats the entire thing i stated.
Ignoring anyone claiming ap nerfs antorus over time saves you a lot of braincells

[Battlebeard]

930 ? i dare you to get in with anything lower then 960

granted that anything lower then 945 still needs 1 or 2 things from normal

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he is probably one of those people who farm it weekly in 970 itlv groups.

it is true that with enough gear argus hc is mechanicaly a joke compared to agrammar.

Yeah, that is my point. My alts are like 915-925ilvl and I have 0 chance of getting invited to Heroic, and quite frankly, Normal is not fun, at all, and not worth my time. I rather raid nothing than normal BUT ofc, Heroic would absolutely be worth the time. But nope, regardless of curve etc, with that gear, you never get invited, even though it's doable and I know tactics.

Hence, just nerf it, so that lower geared can get invited.

[Osmeric]

If your alts are 915-925 then you should run normal. You'd be a carry in heroic.

[JackWest]

Yeah, that is my point. My alts are like 915-925ilvl and I have 0 chance of getting invited to Heroic, and quite frankly, Normal is not fun, at all, and not worth my time. I rather raid nothing than normal BUT ofc, Heroic would absolutely be worth the time. But nope, regardless of curve etc, with that gear, you never get invited, even though it's doable and I know tactics.

Hence, just nerf it, so that lower geared can get invited.

Why should people do content on UNDERGEARED characters? Content wont be nerfed so lazy people can do content their characters are too weak for. You are literaly asking to go into hc with Relinquished gear. I have a rogue with 2 items under 900, rest relinquished and 2 leggos. Ilvl? 927. So, yeah, not gonna bring your EN geared characters into HC. Not sure why expect people to do it

[Battlebeard]

Why should people do content on UNDERGEARED characters? You are literaly asking to go into hc with Relinquished gear

Normally, of course not. But Antorus can surely be considered obsolete for most people now. It's 2 months left of it and it's absolutely 0 prestige left now. Trade chat and premade finder crawls with boost sellers atm, and besides those groups, most groups are for quick Argus groups anyway.

I haven't raided Antorus since I got my trinket to 1000ilvl and full Heroic WF gear, which was over 2 months ago. At 965ilvl I can only improve with TF and it's too rare to be worth it. I would love to swap to an alt and raid Heroic on it instead. BUT, I work 24/7 and also play Overwatch + non-raid stuff on my main. To gear my alts is not realistic and besides, anything pre-heroic has dull and boring mechanics, it's not nearly fun enough to be worth my time.

Thats why I want to go instantly into Heroic now that the raid has 0 prestige and is pointless to most people. A nerfed Heroic version would be perfect. With SAME mechanics but just reduced dmg/HP of bosses OR buffs to the players.

[JackWest]

Normally, of course not. But Antorus can surely be considered obsolete for most people now. It's 2 months left of it and it's absolutely 0 prestige left now. Trade chat and premade finder crawls with boost sellers atm, and besides those groups, most groups are for quick Argus groups anyway.

I haven't raided Antorus since I got my trinket to 1000ilvl and full Heroic WF gear, which was over 2 months ago. At 965ilvl I can only improve with TF and it's too rare to be worth it. I would love to swap to an alt and raid Heroic on it instead. BUT, I work 24/7 and also play Overwatch + non-raid stuff on my main. To gear my alts is not realistic and besides, anything pre-heroic has dull and boring mechanics, it's not nearly fun enough to be worth my time.

Thats why I want to go instantly into Heroic now that the raid has 0 prestige and is pointless to most people. A nerfed Heroic version would be perfect. With SAME mechanics but just reduced dmg/HP of bosses OR buffs to the players.

You are asking other people to carry your ass for free because you rather play OW than gear your alts. Thats your problem, not anyone else's. Besides, you have admitted yourself you dont care about your performance during raid, as you prefer to slack, so a dead weight you would be

[Lochton]

Sitting bored in work i just wonder what theories have people here towards why no nerfs this time around - its the first time in years since they chosen not to do so.

my personal theory is that they are very happy with how wf/tf worked out and they see in their data that ton of people clear whole lower difficulties instead spend time wiping on higher one. (aka they spend time clearing normal on overgeared toons instead try to kill few bosses in hc )

What do you people think about it ? Why did they choose to pursue this way in legion instead do them like in WoLK-WoD period.

Because Normal antorus can be cleared easily now?

[Battlebeard]

You are asking other people to carry your ass for free because you rather play OW than gear your alts. Thats your problem, not anyone else's. Besides, you have admitted yourself you dont care about your performance during raid, as you prefer to slack, so a dead weight you would be

No, I ask for the opposite. Going into current Heroic Antorus would mean I was carried. But if they nerfed it, I would no longer be carried, which is my whole point.

[Osmeric]

No, I ask for the opposite. Going into current Heroic Antorus would mean I was carried. But if they nerfed it, I would no longer be carried, which is my whole point.

They nerf content when people brick wall on it, not when people can't be bothered to gear up for it.

[Battlebeard]

They nerf content when people brick wall on it, not when people can't be bothered to gear up for it.

Well, they nerfed content in every previous expansion, since at least TBC, I can't remember how it was in vanilla. Black Temple was nerfed, ICC was nerfed (30% nerfed), Dragon Soul was nerfed, Siege of Orgrimmar was nerfed, or rather we got buffed with ilvl upgrades etc. In the same way, Hellfire Citadel was nerfed, with gear upgrades + an increased legendary ring (which mattered ALOT more than the upgraded trinket we have now).

So they DO nerf content outside of brick walls. So far every end raid except Antorus.

[Nitros14]

Does it really? "Extremely high" is something like Dragon Soul, Argus is much lower than Gul'dan and not really that much higher than KJ in similar timeframe. The latest nerf has put him ahead by a fair margin, but nothing you can call "extremely high".

And all those comparisons still forget that the tier will be pretty much over in two months, as prepatch will break most classes and will force enormous nerfs to the place.

Edit: Wait, "completion rates" without final boss. Um...?

Don't be pedantic. Completion rates can refer to completing 6/11m or completing 8/11m.

Example: After five and a half months there's 3925 Imonar the Soulhunter mythic kills. 22,704 guilds were active in Antorus.

After five and a half months there were 2302 Gorefiend mythic kills in Hellfire. 29,000 guilds were active in Hellfire.

After five and a half months there were 3057 Mistress Sassz'ine mythic kills in Tomb. 26,000 guilds were active in Tomb.

All of them are sixth bosses and a big step up on the previous bosses so the comparison seems apt. A larger percentage of guilds are succeeding in Antorus than in previous raids.

Similar numbers with later bosses that aren't Argus.

Example: 1875 Aggramar kills five and a half months into Antorus. 748 Mannoroth kills five and a half months into Hellfire.

Antorus, outside of Argus, has very high completion rates.

[Deleted]

Well, they nerfed content in every previous expansion, since at least TBC, I can't remember how it was in vanilla. Black Temple was nerfed, ICC was nerfed (30% nerfed), Dragon Soul was nerfed, Siege of Orgrimmar was nerfed, or rather we got buffed with ilvl upgrades etc. In the same way, Hellfire Citadel was nerfed, with gear upgrades + an increased legendary ring (which mattered ALOT more than the upgraded trinket we have now).

So they DO nerf content outside of brick walls. So far every end raid except Antorus.

You seriously count itemlevel upgrades in previous expansions as nerf but you do not count the 4 1k ilvl items we have + the flood of wf/tf items? Wow, i have no words for that. On average people are 10-15 ilvl overgeared and that is not a nerf for you?

[Nitros14]

You seriously count itemlevel upgrades in previous expansions as nerf but you do not count the 4 1k ilvl items we have + the flood of wf/tf items? Wow, i have no words for that. On average people are 10-15 ilvl overgeared and that is not a nerf for you?

Argus is tuned for those though. Blizzard has to tune around titanforging to avoid Emerald Nightmare (although the first 10 bosses of Antorus are pretty easy anyway).

Hellfire wasn't tuned for valor upgrades. They did those as an emergency when completion rates were so low.

[Battlebeard]

You seriously count itemlevel upgrades in previous expansions as nerf but you do not count the 4 1k ilvl items we have + the flood of wf/tf items? Wow, i have no words for that. On average people are 10-15 ilvl overgeared and that is not a nerf for you?

Yes, because the 1000ilvl, aka, the legendaries, are not tied to Antorus. We have had them the entire expansion, whether they had 910, 940, 970 or 1000ilvl. I hardly count the 2x 30ilvl upgrade (as they were 970 pre-antorus) for 2 legendaries as a huge nerf. The effect of the legendaries stay the same and the stats you get from those 30ilvl is no where near lets say the 30% nerf in ICC.

And WF/TF is not either really tied to this particular raid, as you had that the entire expansion AND regardless, you have to work to get WF/TF and if you are unlucky, you might get no WF/TF items at all. So it's not affecting anyone and not really making the raid easier for everyone.

People are often overgeared, but that is not helping my alts, as they don't get invited. The only way my alts would get invited in their current state is with an actual nerf to the raid.

[Deleted]

Yes, because the 1000ilvl, aka, the legendaries, are not tied to Antorus. We have had them the entire expansion, whether they had 910, 940, 970 or 1000ilvl. I hardly count the 2x 30ilvl upgrade (as they were 970 pre-antorus) for 2 legendaries as a huge nerf. The effect of the legendaries stay the same and the stats you get from those 30ilvl is no where near lets say the 30% nerf in ICC.

And WF/TF is not either really tied to this particular raid, as you had that the entire expansion AND regardless, you have to work to get WF/TF and if you are unlucky, you might get no WF/TF items at all. So it's not affecting anyone and not really making the raid easier for everyone.

People are often overgeared, but that is not helping my alts, as they don't get invited. The only way my alts would get invited in their current state is with an actual nerf to the raid.

Point is in earlier expansions the last content is tuned around a certain ilvl number and there's no option to go higher. -(for antorus this number is around 960~ but you can go way higher easily.)
With tf loot being capped at 985 that is a huge passive nerf to the raid and when you combine this with the insanely easy raid that is antorus + aggramar/argusnerfs then that is close to the same.

Even if antorus gets cut by 50% randoms wont invite your 930 alts.

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Argus is tuned for those though. Blizzard has to tune around titanforging to avoid Emerald Nightmare (although the first 10 bosses of Antorus are pretty easy anyway).

Hellfire wasn't tuned for valor upgrades. They did those as an emergency when completion rates were so low.

Raids right now are not really tuned to titanforging either. (en was this overrun due to blizz underestimating m+'s impact on gear not tf itself.)

[Deleted]

Yes, because the 1000ilvl, aka, the legendaries, are not tied to Antorus. We have had them the entire expansion, whether they had 910, 940, 970 or 1000ilvl. I hardly count the 2x 30ilvl upgrade (as they were 970 pre-antorus) for 2 legendaries as a huge nerf. The effect of the legendaries stay the same and the stats you get from those 30ilvl is no where near lets say the 30% nerf in ICC.

And WF/TF is not either really tied to this particular raid, as you had that the entire expansion AND regardless, you have to work to get WF/TF and if you are unlucky, you might get no WF/TF items at all. So it's not affecting anyone and not really making the raid easier for everyone.

People are often overgeared, but that is not helping my alts, as they don't get invited. The only way my alts would get invited in their current state is with an actual nerf to the raid.

The stats from those items in addition to the other WF/TF stuff does add up quite a lot. Why do you try to find excuses so hard? You are way overgeared, that is a fact. Your entire raid is overgeared. Pantheontrinkets providing a buff quite often is another nerf. Artifactlevel above 75 is a buff. I could even add netherlight crucible. All these things add up so hard and no, Antorus was not tuned for ilvl 975 with 3 new relictraits and artifactlevel 80+. People like you can not see things interacting together and with all this stuff that is above what is required for raiding right now you have your nerf and this nerf is getting stronger each weak. Sorry, but now i have to get somewhat agressive. If you fail so hard to see the obvious things that buff your character way above what is needed i understand why you fail at the easiest raid mechanics. You simply can not see them. Sorry, but that is that. If the only wa you realise a nerf is a flat percentage nerf/buff as an icon above your character than i can see why you so desperately need that. And btw: No one gives a fuck about alts when the discussion is about mythic raiding and the percentage of players clearing? Come on dude, no ones alt is relevant to any dicussion around that topic. My alts are around 945 because i do not play them that often but once i link my heroic argus i get an invite. Everytime as long as my role is needed. You not getting invites might be a problem on your side.