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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    I imagine what we'll end up doing is only stacking up to 2 empowerments at once so we never overcap with a proc.
    Yeah, the main reason I'd ever cap on empowerments in Legion was due to OI bracers and getting crazy procs, or the Incarnation AsP buff in conjunction with OI or other sources of AsP generation. Pretty much all of those are gone or nerfed in Legion, so the chances of capping on empowerments is very slim. Maybe high movement where you only have time for casting Wrath for some reason, but that'd have to be a lot of movement.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #442
    I find it funny the users who incessantly posted nonstop doom and gloom about the spec are radio silent since Seph posted.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddler View Post
    I find it funny the users who incessantly posted nonstop doom and gloom about the spec are radio silent since Seph posted.
    i did admit i was wrong , but now i just wait to test the changes to post more

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddler View Post
    I find it funny the users who incessantly posted nonstop doom and gloom about the spec are radio silent since Seph posted.
    And those people posting doom and gloom were justified in doing so. If no changes had happened moonkin was going to be in a very boring situation going into BfA. I imagine most of the people that are 'silent' right now are waiting for these changes to hit the beta so they can test them out.

    The important thing to note here is that we should test what we can and give feedback and discuss these changes. If we can actually do something as a community of moonkin players and give feedback we might be able to make the spec really enjoyable for BfA. That is what I'm hoping for.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddler View Post
    I find it funny the users who incessantly posted nonstop doom and gloom about the spec are radio silent since Seph posted.
    What a stupid comment to make.

    The incessant nonstop doom and gloom is what made Blizzard make those changes and have Seph post what they did. Until then, it seemed as if Blizz had thought Balance to be final. You have to give feedback in beta, and we did. Most of the doomsayers are now hopeful, waiting for the patch to hit much like I am, to test out how the newer spec feels.

    Would you rather have just had us be silent from the get go, consoling us with 'relax it's just beta, it'll change......'? Because that's how abysmal shit like WoD and Legion start class balances go through.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    The incessant nonstop doom and gloom is what made Blizzard make those changes
    Given that they have a long history of not disclosing their plans, this is really just a guess.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Malmmoc View Post
    Given that they have a long history of not disclosing their plans, this is really just a guess.
    It probably had something to do with them posting about it, though.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It probably had something to do with them posting about it, though.
    Doubtful, the doom and gloom spam doesn't really give any insight. Its the proper, thought out feedback that is the cause for it atleast partly for where the changes happen.
    Other than that the only indicator that any post had any impact is the Blue post where they said specs were mostly done apart from DK's (and whatever else was there) but for all we know there could've been miscommunication on Blizzards side

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Malmmoc View Post
    Given that they have a long history of not disclosing their plans, this is really just a guess.
    In general, Blizz won't disclose their plans unless it's almost complete or finalized as a decision, especially with class changes. The changes for Balance were pretty large in terms of abilities adjusted, so they were probably tinkering/testing with different ideas and ways of accomplishing their goals. While we outsiders would always love status updates or constant blue posts about things, it's really not feasible and a waste of time from their end. As we've seen in the past, whenever Blizz gives their intended plans away at a really early part of development, the community claims it as confirmed changes... then there's complaints about plans that don't get executed (sometimes to the cries of nerfs about changes that were never implemented at all). This is why Blizz has the trademark on "Soon," as the community usually has overblown perceptions of estimates and intentions.

    *edit* - Slight aside, has anyone messed around with WPvP as moonkin yet? There's been a crazy amount of exploitative behavior that I've mostly stayed Guardian to wreck anyone that messes with me... but may everyone else hasn't had such experiences.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2018-05-21 at 08:09 AM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #450
    They could at least have said "we're working on Balance", though, when they specificially called out working on Unholy.
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Doubtful, the doom and gloom spam doesn't really give any insight. Its the proper, thought out feedback that is the cause for it atleast partly for where the changes happen.
    Other than that the only indicator that any post had any impact is the Blue post where they said specs were mostly done apart from DK's (and whatever else was there) but for all we know there could've been miscommunication on Blizzards side
    No. Go back and read that again.

    It's not why they made the changes. It's why they told us they're making the changes. As Muddler noted, the doom & gloom has mostly gone silent since Seph's post, so it worked quite well for that.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    They could at least have said "we're working on Balance", though, when they specificially called out working on Unholy.

    No. Go back and read that again.

    It's not why they made the changes. It's why they told us they're making the changes. As Muddler noted, the doom & gloom has mostly gone silent since Seph's post, so it worked quite well for that.
    They don't really call out "we're working on X" if they don't already have proper idea of what they're doing. Balance needed a lot of changes, tweaks here and there, to make it work better. If it didn't work out then they'd be in a situation where they "promised" something and then didn't deliver, no company wants to put them in that.

    The doom and gloom posts really didn't do the change, aka the posts of "No changes -> quit/reroll" etc. not the ones that actually had an input "It feels static cuz X and Y". There are lots of useless doom and gloom posts on official forums (and here) that didn't do anything, was just annoying to click through in hopes of actual posts.

    People are silent since we're getting changes and we can't test them yet. However those changes are in a state of where its mostly just numbers tuning and minor tweaks here and there in their internal builds, changes that were driven by proper feedback to a degree (as we can't know how much was influenced by them). Once we can test them I'm sure theres people who dislike them (like theres already been on Official forums) but if its not the majority then they just get shot down (likely by the same gloom and doom posters).


    IF doom and gloom posts were such a big deal then changes like the GCD's wouldn't be going through in any form or shape. Doom and gloom posts just aren't beneficial unless you really like the memes that come out of them.

  12. #452
    @lappee, do you even read what you quote? You're completely missing what i'm saying.

    No, they likely didn't make changes because of all the doom and gloom.

    Chances are good they made the decision to tell us about them because of the doom and gloom.

    People are silent since we're getting changes and we can't test them yet.
    You didn't have to repeat me.

  13. #453
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddler View Post
    I find it funny the users who incessantly posted nonstop doom and gloom about the spec are radio silent since Seph posted.
    yeah because mission accomplished I would say, honestly there was too much feedback and I think meaningful feedback most of the time...its quiet clear when you look at their proposed changes that majority of them was proposed by players over past few months, just simple "treants generate astral power while active" is very simple change proposed (not by just me) many times, nature´s balance is finally gone (thank you lord, thank you thank you thank you!), we get some RNG element to our rotation, AoE splash radius finally getting fixed, stellar flare fixed...

    just read through official or mmo druids´threads and see for yourself, almost everything they are going to change has been criticized/proposed/talked about by the community, whining obviously pays off

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    @lappee, do you even read what you quote? You're completely missing what i'm saying.

    No, they likely didn't make changes because of all the doom and gloom.

    Chances are good they made the decision to tell us about them because of the doom and gloom.

    You didn't have to repeat me.
    Just a misread, no worries, even though I'd say the same still applies to posting about it. They would've posted about it even without all the doom&gloom spam, it still as useless as it always was.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Just a misread, no worries, even though I'd say the same still applies to posting about it. They would've posted about it even without all the doom&gloom spam, it still as useless as it always was.
    I'm not so sure about that. They're quite aware of the negative impact perception can have on a class/spec and have acted on it before.

    If anything, pacifying these people was actually the primary benefit of that post.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. They're quite aware of the negative impact perception can have on a class/spec and have acted on it before.

    If anything, pacifying these people was actually the primary benefit of that post.
    If they wanted to just pacify people they would've said "we're working on it" way, way back when they first started thinking of changes. Instead they let us know the changes that are coming after they were decided on.

    They both do the work of shutting people up about it, one is directed towards the doom & gloom people and the other for theorycrafters to continue giving feedback on the upcoming changes.

  17. #457
    Either way, we got a post and changes, changes that before testing seem like good changes. I'm happy, I don't know if I would consider myself doom and gloom, but I am not a theorycrafter so I can't give ultra-specific feedback.

    I don't currently have beta, so when these go live can we create a new thread about how they feel, one so I can hear that and two so we can say goodbye to this one?

  18. #458
    Probably should. This thread is pretty much obsolete now and you always get the idiots who don't read beyond the title.

  19. #459
    I'd love such a thread change as well, mb just [Beta] Balance Druid changes or w/e

  20. #460

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