Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Deleted]

It's still early. Many of the builds came at 1-2am where I live. It's still 22:47

The servers generally come offline slightly before midnight my time, which is in 8 minutes.

[Ramz]

Can we move the whole Windrunner madness to a proper thread and continue talking about BfA?

Like... I dunno...
Fuck I really want playable Zandalari

Well I want for devs to polish them first, they still have some bad (nelf) animations that needs to be replaced. Zandalari female needs to have different undearwear.

More customization options
-at least 2 hair colours are missing, (on blizzcon female had tomato red hair, and Zandalari children has black hair colour).
and maybe some new hairstyles t get? (that flat plain nelf hairstyle looks atrocious).
-Zandalari male is still missing dance animation

And...

There aren't enough raptor plushies among Zandalari children!

[Vynestra]

Looks like they re-rolled out the exe file, although the build number is different I think.
@Marlamin

[gcsmith]

That's a way of looking at it I suppose. But see, that sort of thing could add some nice depth and drama to the Forsaken. Show how conflicted some of them are, between their guilt at doing these actions and their faction no longer wanting of them. There's a treasure trove of potential stories and characters to develop from the premise of the raising mechanism being flawed and not particularly respectful of free will.

Instead every Forsaken just marches in lockstep with Sylvanas no questions asked, and we're told that there's no problem with it and it is totally logical, guys. And just when you think you'll get a faction of them that doesn't, they get massacred in the book that introduces them, because we wouldn't want to disrupt the status quo now would we. All of this feels like a wasted opportunity to me.

I would like to see more forsaken hating Sylvannas for dragging them away from their families.

[Lahis]

Well I want for devs to polish them first, they still have some bad (nelf) animations that needs to be replaced. Zandalari female needs to have different undearwear.

More customization options
-at least 2 hair colours are missing, (on blizzcon female had tomato red hair, and Zandalari children has black hair colour).
and maybe some new hairstyles t get? (that flat plain nelf hairstyle looks atrocious).
-Zandalari male is still missing dance animation

They can add those in 8.X when the race actually becomes playable.

[Simca]

I'm a little disappointed you used the same old tripe little Ion says - that they can't keep adding abilities.

Guess what? They can't keep taking them away either. It's been 6 years and 3 expansion releases of constant pruning. The first WoD prune they lied to us and told us they were removing NOW so they could add LATER. Didn't exactly pan out that way did it?

3 expansion releases of constant pruning is an overstatement. BFA specs typically have the same number of abilities or maybe 1 less (Artifact active ability). Legion wasn't heavy on pruning either, though there was some of it (Hunter traps, Rogue poisons, and a few other things spring to mind). Some specs gained abilities compared between WoD and Legion.

The problem I have with a generic, universal 'pruning is bad' statement is that some specs right now have as many abilities as they would ever need. Case in point: Holy Priests. Is anyone really going to argue that Holy Priests are pruned down too much and need more abilities?

Pruning is an issue, but it's not a universal issue. I feel like pruning hit pure DPS classes harder than anyone else (Mage, Warlock, Hunter, Rogue). Some of those classes have returned to a good place over time (Hunters had their traps restored in 7.1, Sub Rogues are getting back a lot of the utility stripped from them by poison removal in 8.0, Mages got baseline unique Barrier spells in 7.1, Mages are gaining back Remove Curse in 8.0), but there definitely is work that could still be done. Warlocks in particular are still missing a ton of miscellaneous things (curses would be nice) that makes them feel incomplete as a class, at least without their Honor Talents.

Pruning is generally a lot less of an issue for hybrids. For example, Paladins are a great spot. Protection, Retribution, and Holy all have tons of abilities and unique utility. They really don't need to restore anything there (actually, I take it back, give me Divine Intervention so I can wipe raids again, thanks Blizzard).

Reddit is filled with anti-pruning posts, but they're mostly just lazy rants. I would love to see a very high quality post that analyzed the number of abilities every spec had in Mists, WoD, Legion, and BFA and went over the things that were removed that need to be added back. I'm pretty sure that Method rant a couple weeks ago was responsible for Blizzard returning Remove Curse to Mages, so I bet a lot of the changes would actually get implemented.

But no, people on /r/wow are too busy using buzzwords and ranting incoherently to use actual data to back up their arguments. Sigh.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Simca laying the law down(To be fair though he/she explained the issue better then I ever could even attempt to)

[Cosmic Janitor]

Jaina taking a less pacifistic stance isn't what I'd consider out-of-character considering that her major character developments in recent years focus on how her desire for peace through pacifism has almost always costed her in the end. The main issues I had in WoD/Legion was that her distrust of the Horde was presented in a very uncharacteristically irrational and extreme tone. I'm fine with Jaina dialing back her pacifism, but I still think her idealism, rationality, and empathy are core components of her character that should remain intact.

I completely agree. It makes sense that she doesn't trust the horde blind anymore, but this irrational hatred just lessens her character so much. The new comic they released just keeps going into the same direction, sadly. I like the Kul Tiras part, but her reminscing of her Father, who was an asshole, and retconning her whole character in her own head is just horrible. We already learned in MoP that we are strong because of one another, not despite. We fucked the legion up 'together', without flag waving for a change, and now we have to buy Jaina absolutely can't see that. Her vibe is still all horde needs to die, not the horde needs to be shattered and restructured, not we need to get rid of Sylvanas or the Goblin leadership (arguably the most vile among the horde leaders), no, they just aren't worth anything, they are just mindless beasts.. but then wow was never good with the whole "being sentient" thing, since most beasts seem to be capable of complex thought and recognizing themselves as well..anyway.

Jaina would be so much more effective as a foil, as would Greymane, if they actually were more rational. Rage quitting the council of six did nothing for herself (and her character), we now just know that she did some demon killing too, so we are to expected to believe that she totes wasn't a useless crybaby while the legion was threatening the whole planet. If she stayed on the council they could have written up the conflict between the horde and alliance in a more organic way and let us be part of it, instead we get the bitch queen murdering some of her own people, before just nuking the capitol of another nation. Yes truly balanced writing there.

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to see more forsaken hating Sylvannas for dragging them away from their families.

That is probably what the whole Calia thing is for. I wonder if blizzard would put in an allied race for which there is absolutely zero demand (forsaken on the alliance essentially, just with a light theme or something like that) just to push the lore. Usually people expect the opposite, but maybe in reality their ideas are just that bad and the result is the gameplay by pure chance .

[Maljinwo]

Zandalari female needs to have different undearwear.

Stop it ramz. If they get sexier, they'd be banned

[gcsmith]

I completely agree. It makes sense that she doesn't trust the horde blind anymore, but this irrational hatred just lessens her character so much. The new comic they released just keeps going into the same direction, sadly. I like the Kul Tiras part, but her reminscing of her Father, who was an asshole, and retconning her whole character in her own head is just horrible. We already learned in MoP that we are strong because of one another, not despite. We fucked the legion up 'together', without flag waving for a change, and now we have to buy Jaina absolutely can't see that. Her vibe is still all horde needs to die, not the horde needs to be shattered and restructured, not we need to get rid of Sylvanas or the Goblin leadership (arguably the most vile among the horde leaders), no, they just aren't worth anything, they are just mindless beasts.. but then wow was never good with the whole "being sentient" thing, since most beasts seem to be capable of complex thought and recognizing themselves as well..anyway.

Jaina would be so much more effective as a foil, as would Greymane, if they actually were more rational. Rage quitting the council of six did nothing for herself (and her character), we now just know that she did some demon killing too, so we are to expected to believe that she totes wasn't a useless crybaby while the legion was threatening the whole planet. If she stayed on the council they could have written up the conflict between the horde and alliance in a more organic way and let us be part of it, instead we get the bitch queen murdering some of her own people, before just nuking the capitol of another nation. Yes truly balanced writing there.

- - - Updated - - -



That is probably what the whole Calia thing is for. I wonder if blizzard would put in an allied race for which there is absolutely zero demand (forsaken on the alliance essentially, just with a light theme or something like that) just to push the lore. Usually people expect the opposite, but maybe in reality their ideas are just that bad and the result is the gameplay by pure chance .

Give me one alliance allied race they've gotten so far (before Dark Iron) that alliance were asking for.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That is probably what the whole Calia thing is for. I wonder if blizzard would put in an allied race for which there is absolutely zero demand (forsaken on the alliance essentially, just with a light theme or something like that) just to push the lore. Usually people expect the opposite, but maybe in reality their ideas are just that bad and the result is the gameplay by pure chance

I know people would eat that up but me personally, it'd be another meh kinda race.

[Steampunkette]

Give me one alliance allied race they've gotten so far (before Dark Iron) that alliance were asking for.

High Elves. And they got them. Just... Y'know... slightly dirtied.

[gcsmith]

High Elves. And they got them. Just... Y'know... slightly dirtied.

They didn't get high elves, which is the big problem with void elves....

That said I love my VE rogue, especially the ready stance in stealth.

[Deleted]

3 expansion releases of constant pruning is an overstatement. BFA specs typically have the same number of abilities or maybe 1 less (Artifact active ability). Legion wasn't heavy on pruning either, though there was some of it (Hunter traps, Rogue poisons, and a few other things spring to mind). Some specs gained abilities compared between WoD and Legion.

The problem I have with a generic, universal 'pruning is bad' statement is that some specs right now have as many abilities as they would ever need. Case in point: Holy Priests. Is anyone really going to argue that Holy Priests are pruned down too much and need more abilities?

Pruning is an issue, but it's not a universal issue. I feel like pruning hit pure DPS classes harder than anyone else (Mage, Warlock, Hunter, Rogue). Some of those classes have returned to a good place over time (Hunters had their traps restored in 7.1, Sub Rogues are getting back a lot of the utility stripped from them by poison removal in 8.0, Mages got baseline unique Barrier spells in 7.1, Mages are gaining back Remove Curse in 8.0), but there definitely is work that could still be done. Warlocks in particular are still missing a ton of miscellaneous things (curses would be nice) that makes them feel incomplete as a class, at least without their Honor Talents.

Pruning is generally a lot less of an issue for hybrids. For example, Paladins are a great spot. Protection, Retribution, and Holy all have tons of abilities and unique utility. They really don't need to restore anything there (actually, I take it back, give me Divine Intervention so I can wipe raids again, thanks Blizzard).

Reddit is filled with anti-pruning posts, but they're mostly just lazy rants. I would love to see a very high quality post that analyzed the number of abilities every spec had in Mists, WoD, Legion, and BFA and went over the things that were removed that need to be added back. I'm pretty sure that Method rant a couple weeks ago was responsible for Blizzard returning Remove Curse to Mages, so I bet a lot of the changes would actually get implemented.

But no, people on /r/wow are too busy using buzzwords and ranting incoherently to use actual data to back up their arguments. Sigh.

To be fair, your point I agree on, but it is pruned. Pruned doesn't always mean active abilities removed, but also the depth of a class.

Class depth in WoD/BFA is abysmal, no other way to put it, and it's mainly because we're losing our artifacts in BFA, which gave a huge portion of our class depth and it shouldn't have been discontinued, they should have built from it (although a less bloated version), and it's a lesson they'll learn in BFA once people start complaining on live servers that their classes feel very bland to play.

Generally it feels like you have a "minimal class" expansion and the following expansion will expand classes again. It's like a cycle, and probably a good thing they do it or it would become too bloated that it's going to take an excel sheet to figure out your rotation.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I know people would eat that up but me personally, it'd be another meh kinda race.

Would they though? I mean if they still looked like forsaken? Hunched skinny zombies with their elbows and knees missing, just with some light themed stuff instead? Of course that is just speculation as to the looks, but I don't think there is any actual demand outside of some neurotic fetish driven-forum goers..
@gcsmith: I'm certain there were quite a few people that wanted all the neat stuff LFDraenei had when they were introduced with argus, especially priest and paladin players. They would have probably just wanted it as a customization option, but the same is true for tauren and highmountain tauren. I also some people say that they want to play as fat humans (I don't get it either), but these are probably in the same camp and significance as the people that want to play as ogers..

I get what you are playing at, the butchered attempt to give the alliance high elves, yet instead they've got void abominations from a more cynical perspective. While that obviously is not what people have been asking for, they did end up getting the model (at least with armor on) in the end. So yes, the alliance got what many wanted, just not in the packaging that they wanted. Horde got the lore of Nightborne, but also got the lame ass looks of Nightelves (even uglier tbh) instead of the changed version we see in suramar..

[Khirok]

High Elves. And they got them. Just... Y'know... slightly dirtied.

So they didn't.

[Ramz]

Stop it ramz. If they get sexier, they'd be banned

too late ; P

And Lol someone can't draw trollz . What happened to Vol'Jin's nose? I made a shoddy edit:



Also I wonder if my comic would get recognition

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Would they though? I mean if they still looked like forsaken? Hunched skinny zombies with their elbows and knees missing, just with some light themed stuff instead? Of course that is just speculation as to the looks, but I don't think there is any actual demand outside of some neurotic fetish driven-forum goers..
@gcsmith: I'm certain there were quite a few people that wanted all the neat stuff LFDraenei had when they were introduced with argus, especially priest and paladin players. They would have probably just wanted it as a customization option, but the same is true for tauren and highmountain tauren. I also some people say that they want to play as fat humans (I don't get it either), but these are probably in the same camp and significance as the people that want to play as ogers..

I get what you are playing at, the butchered attempt to give the alliance high elves, yet instead they've got void abominations from a more cynical perspective. While that obviously is not what people have been asking for, they did end up getting the model (at least with armor on) in the end. So yes, the alliance got what many wanted, just not in the packaging that they wanted. Horde got the lore of Nightborne, but also got the lame ass looks of Nightelves (even uglier tbh) instead of the changed version we see in suramar..

People's tastes differ widely, there will be a general support of them.

[Vynestra]

Wow intressting, every mhytic raider and theorycrafter i spoken too (which you can affirm comming in to the hammer of wrath discord) have problems with ret, especially utility, and the upcomming tank meta for prot.

But im sure this people have no clue and throwing buzz words out

Mythic raiders complain about class design every expansion no matter what.

This isn't news, if you talk to the heads of the discords they're usually a bit more sensible and aren't freaking out while the discord collectively is.

But most mythic raiders you know and I know both say the same song and dance every xpac.

And the "every person I know" argument is quite literally anecdotal evidence, with no real statistics or arguments but empty rants, somehow you managed to read simca's post and LITERALLY re-create exactly what she said IS the problem.

Which is hilarious.

[Graden]

No news yet?