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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    That is true. As a union welder myself, I've seen several people in our union who's welds look like they grabbed some dog shit and threw it onto some metal. How they pasted the weld test is a mystery. (not really seeing as they know a guy in management...)

    But all in all, working in a union is far better than not.
    My father was a union electrician. Master at his craft and retired now. I've met other union electricians who I was afraid to work with due to their incompetence (non-union freelance sound engineer myself, ran into them a few times on site).

    I have been non-union for long enough in my field now that I'm strongly considering contacting a few unions to join.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Energy Mitten View Post
    Probably fine, there are a lot of imbalances in the US between employer/employee relations that could certainly do some improvement. My only issue is with public unions, those are nothing but a blight in the country and the quicker we get rid of them the better.
    Agreed /10char

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    That is true. As a union welder myself, I've seen several people in our union who's welds look like they grabbed some dog shit and threw it onto some metal. How they pasted the weld test is a mystery. (not really seeing as they know a guy in management...)

    But all in all, working in a union is far better than not.
    more often than not yes being in the union is better than not. my father owns a machine shop. he and his workers are non union. his employees are well taken care of and def are some of the best around. he pays them well for the skills they possess and when they ask for raises he more times than not gives it to them if deserving. they are insured as well. this type of job tho is rare in a non union field. most non union employers do pay there workers shit and don't insure or give a fuck about them. they are replaceable to most non union employers. which is prob why those business are not that large or don't grow at all. being in the union is great but if you are the type of worker that is a diamond hidden in a rock quarry you can easily make way more if you left the union. most workers tho are just coal laying around. most diamonds are already taken care of and are extremely hard to find these days.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurinaux View Post
    So what the fuck are we talking about? Literally all public unions? Teachers unions? Police unions?
    Mostly unions that are involved in transportation. But in general, yes all public unions. They do nothing but defraud taxpayers.

  5. #85
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    You can say that, but have you ever worked in a union? Or worked in field dominated by unions and not been in one? It's a clusterfuck.
    Yes, and no. Because I make a point of joining a union regardless of whether or not it is compulsory.

    Point in fact, most of my professional career has been under the auspices of the devil's union according to the folks here, that being the teacher's union. I'm well familiar with their operating strategy and no, I don't think that's a justification for being a corporatist shill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #86
    Currently in USW Canada and have been in other unions in the past, overall good experience though the one big downside is they protect some pretty horrible (work ethic) employees who really should be fired.

  7. #87
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    I love watching 'cons complain about unions being corrupt and greedy, like corporations aren't.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I love watching 'cons complain about unions being corrupt and greedy, like corporations aren't.
    Dictatorship is bad, unless it's the forms of dictatorship we find convenient.

    And yes, businesses are essentially dictatorships.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurinaux View Post
    Do you think teachers should be paid more?

    Do you think people have a right to organize?
    This is the problem because I actually agree with this, but unions in the US do more than this and many states are actually struggling to pay pension to public teachers (cough cough Illinois cough cough) Also, the laws that force local authorities to hire a minimum amount of workers regardless of how small and simple the project maybe.

  10. #90
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    Current Government in Australia is trying to make it so that construction industry jobs pay less, if the Union did not exist, high risk jobs would not be paying their workers their full worth, they'd be working for pennies in comparison. Unions are a good thing when Governments that are in power are for the big end of town and would sooner see worker's rights and conditions worsen.

  11. #91
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    None of the examples given here justify union removal. It does suggest restructuring of said trade unions look at how it's done in the EU.

    Since I guess everyone here heard of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    more often than not yes being in the union is better than not. my father owns a machine shop. he and his workers are non union. his employees are well taken care of and def are some of the best around. he pays them well for the skills they possess and when they ask for raises he more times than not gives it to them if deserving. they are insured as well. this type of job tho is rare in a non union field. most non union employers do pay there workers shit and don't insure or give a fuck about them. they are replaceable to most non union employers. which is prob why those business are not that large or don't grow at all. being in the union is great but if you are the type of worker that is a diamond hidden in a rock quarry you can easily make way more if you left the union. most workers tho are just coal laying around. most diamonds are already taken care of and are extremely hard to find these days.
    Having been in construction for almost 4 decades doing both non-union and union works, I have a hard time believing that one can make more doing non-union work. Here is how much I pay my inspectors.


    http://www.dir.ca.gov/OPRL/2018-1/PW...23-63-3(D).pdf

    Assuming, no overtime, no night shift, no extra shift and no multi-shift (which is impossible), that comes out to be 97k - 98k per year base pay. If you include benefits (health, welfare and pension) that comes out around 151k per year.

  13. #93
    I would rather that the federal government made and enforced laws to protect workers that are as a strong as union protection is along with laws on providing benefits, and pay. I would rather that the pensions be handled by the government. If the government is not going to do this then I feel trade unions are the next best thing.

  14. #94
    The best jobs I've ever had were unionized.

    Non union jobs are a joke.
    Disarm now correctly removes the targets’ arms.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Having been in construction for almost 4 decades doing both non-union and union works, I have a hard time believing that one can make more doing non-union work. Here is how much I pay my inspectors.


    http://www.dir.ca.gov/OPRL/2018-1/PW...23-63-3(D).pdf

    Assuming, no overtime, no night shift, no extra shift and no multi-shift (which is impossible), that comes out to be 97k - 98k per year base pay. If you include benefits (health, welfare and pension) that comes out around 151k per year.
    running a machine shop is completely different than construction when it comes to inspections. jesse james is a prime example of a non union metal worker and welder who made his name by doing what he does. when you have talent you can make way more than union as I stated. when you build items that cater to certain individuals and are getting a name and they contact you, you and your employees prosper. as long as you want your business to grow, the workers must be compensated for their efforts. other people who run machine shops who aren't in a union... boyd cottington, chip foose, the teutuls all these individuals surround themselves with talent to make their goal. they all get paid very well as do their workers. and when you do contract work. if you finish early and way ahead of schedule union don't get bonuses, non-union does. its very easy to believe actually.

  16. #96
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Trade Unions.. Y/N
    Yay

    At least i am in favor (generally) of the Danish labor unions (except the yellow ones)

    But then some things work differently in Denmark.. Since we do not have a federation or state saying there is a minimum wage then if there are no unions there is no minimum and we saw in Germany how low that can go. We need them unions on that wall.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilist74 View Post
    I would rather that the federal government made and enforced laws to protect workers that are as a strong as union protection is along with laws on providing benefits, and pay. I would rather that the pensions be handled by the government. If the government is not going to do this then I feel trade unions are the next best thing.
    you don't want the government handling pensions. look at Illinois.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    /facepalm

    If someone is skilled or not is not the question here and is absolutely irrelevant.

    Seems like Americans don't have a basic understanding what a trade union is.

    yes it is relevant, trade unions are full of people who are shit. making the same as a worker who is ten times the worker they are. good workers in non union jobs get rewarded greatly. shit workers are fired as they should be. someone said before I posted that that non union work is shit compared to union and that is 100% not true, and most union members agree. many union members also agree that many workers around them are shit and only have a job cause they are union. I can say that cause I was union. I seen it. I seen people slack off and do half ass work knowing they had job security.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    /facepalm

    If someone is skilled or not is not the question here and is absolutely irrelevant.

    Seems like Americans don't have a basic understanding what a trade union is.
    a master union finish carpenter making 50+ an hour and cant even cut a basic 45 degree angle correctly when putting up trim. ive seen it. but that is irrelevant right?
    Last edited by craigw; 2018-05-23 at 12:43 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I bet if China allowed unions people there wouldn't be working themselves to death.
    That’s probably true.
    I also bet if China wasn’t Communist/Socialist that wouldn’t be happening either.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    you don't want the government handling pensions. look at Illinois.
    In most cases, you don’t want the US government handling all that much if it involves money.

    Cheers

  20. #100
    cause the US government is known to spend money responsibly right? so its okay to trust them with your future. being from Illinois and losing a portion of my pension I can say I would never even think the idea is possible. social security is a disaster when it comes to diverting funds. but hey wishful thinking it can be done properly right?

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