1. #6041
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    Well, You clearly see folks, that conflict between Thalasian elven factions catches attention instantly, and so - It would not be wise from Blizzards perspective to let it into oblivion xD
    Which is why the Alliance has Void Elves. Playable High Elves are completely unnecessary to further the plot between the Void Elves and the Blood Elves. But the Void Elf-Blood Elf plotline will work best with the Blood Elves being underpinned by the holy light which is why speculation they may lose the Sunwell is almost certainly in error.




    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    Thing is - part of classic elf archetype, as I (and many other people) understand it, is to stay allied with Humans and Dwarves. And as much as I love Blood Elves - I rather could not say, they deal with that part well

    Best solution in my opinion, is to differentiate from existing High Elves those, who will not be willing to follow Alleria's path to the end, as they were not willing to suck magic from living creatures before, and give them story about finding new ways, slightly turned in favor of nature, reusing some WC2 concepts (to address nostalgia), use some proposed here bronze skins - as consequence of either new lifestyle, crossbreeding, or their own balance searchings in other way. Use Silver Covenant just in recruiting scenario.

    That story would in fact strongly follow path of Tolkien elves - who after destruction of Beleriand, become forced to search new settlements, hidden in forests, mountains or underground, between their less noble relatives. And such - it is classic to the core.

    What does in fact stop us, from supposition, that there might be exist some unknown refuge camps in all that empty mountains of Eastern Kingdoms, during reigns of Scourge and Horde, now rediscovered after Alliances offensive?
    Again, the classic elf archetype is fulfilled in every way by the Blood Elves except for the allying with Humans and Dwarves part. The best solution was the one already implemented, giving the Alliance a variant of those Elves meaningfully distinguished from the Blood Elves which was accomplished via the Void Elves.

    While I acknowledge the debt fantasy owes to lord of the rings, this is not lord of the rings. The tolkien style elves are not friends of Humanity in Warcraft. They stand with the Horde.

  2. #6042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    except for the allying with Humans and Dwarves part
    Only if we agree for further erosion of their TBC era concept, that made them dangerous creatures, hiding great hunger under their beauty. Proud but pragmatic and with strong will to survive. Scared people, as I prefer to describe them.

    Which we already stated - I'm not willing to agree.

  3. #6043
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    Only if we agree for further erosion of their TBC era concept, that made them dangerous creatures, hiding great hunger under their beauty. Proud but pragmatic and with strong will to survive. Scared people, as I prefer to describe them.

    Which we already stated - I'm not willing to agree.
    Their TBC era concept was ended with the restoration of the sunwell. They are still addicted to magic but their addiction is sated.

    This is a not a subjective matter of debate, which appears to be a running theme among pro High Elfers. The pro High Elf community disagrees with something and pretends it is subjective. It is in fact objective, able to be proven one way or another.

    As they have the Sunwell, they are no longer hungry. As they are no longer hungry, they are no longer driven by that hunger. As they are no longer driven by that hunger, it cannot define them. As they are not defined by hunger, they are now defined by something else. That something else is the restoration of the primacy of what they have always been, High Elves, that was briefly eclipsed by their drive to sustain their addiction.

    The plotline where they were hungry is done. It is completed. Destroying the Sunwell in an attempt to force them back onto that plot, when the more enticing and interesting one of their role in the coming war between the void and the light is just over the horizon, is redundant and boring storytelling.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-05-24 at 03:35 PM.

  4. #6044
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The plotline where they were hungry is done. It is completed. Destroying the Sunwell in an attempt to force them back onto that plot, when the more enticing and interesting one of their role in the coming war between the void and the light is just over the horizon, is redundant and boring storytelling.
    Not to mention it wouldn't work anymore either, since the Arcan'dor exists.

  5. #6045
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    (...)
    Maybe. But speaking against retcons about nature of Quel'Thalas crystals, and theorizing about them being forced to use some controversial methods in possible future elven civil war - is not. As well, as speculating about light based Sunwell not being so safe.

    And as well, as expecting them to start act like Drows to some point again. Cause - as Night Elves were hybrid of wood-elf-niche, and dark-elf-niche - Blood Elves in WC3, and later in TBC were High Elves transformed into opposite. And there is lot of people, who would prefer Blood Elves to be Blood Elves again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Arcan'dor
    Was imho even worst storytelling idea, than restoring of the Sunwell.
    Last edited by mmoc5cb4a68957; 2018-05-24 at 03:48 PM.

  6. #6046
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Their TBC era concept was ended with the restoration of the sunwell. They are still addicted to magic but their addiction is sated.

    This is a not a subjective matter of debate, which appears to be a running theme among pro High Elfers. The pro High Elf community disagrees with something and pretends it is subjective. It is in fact objective, able to be proven one way or another.

    As they have the Sunwell, they are no longer hungry. As they are no longer hungry, they are no longer driven by that hunger. As they are no longer driven by that hunger, it cannot define them. As they are not defined by hunger, they are now defined by something else. That something else is the restoration of the primacy of what they have always been, High Elves, that was briefly eclipsed by their drive to sustain their addiction.

    The plotline where they were hungry is done. It is completed. Destroying the Sunwell in an attempt to force them back onto that plot, when the more enticing and interesting one of their role in the coming war between the void and the light is just over the horizon, is redundant and boring storytelling.
    Aptly put, sir.

  7. #6047
    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    Was imho even worst storytelling idea, than restoring of the Sunwell.
    True same goes for the nightborne themselves and yet here we are.

  8. #6048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    True same goes for the nightborne themselves and yet here we are.
    I would destroy Arcan'dor with pleasure - to make Nightfallen playable. And shut down Sunwell, or better - make it dangerous under the light corruption, to force Blood Elves to make some risky choices again.

    There should be no such easy and safe returns.
    Last edited by mmoc5cb4a68957; 2018-05-24 at 04:09 PM.

  9. #6049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Their TBC era concept was ended with the restoration of the sunwell. They are still addicted to magic but their addiction is sated.

    This is a not a subjective matter of debate, which appears to be a running theme among pro High Elfers. The pro High Elf community disagrees with something and pretends it is subjective. It is in fact objective, able to be proven one way or another.

    As they have the Sunwell, they are no longer hungry. As they are no longer hungry, they are no longer driven by that hunger. As they are no longer driven by that hunger, it cannot define them. As they are not defined by hunger, they are now defined by something else. That something else is the restoration of the primacy of what they have always been, High Elves, that was briefly eclipsed by their drive to sustain their addiction.

    The plotline where they were hungry is done. It is completed. Destroying the Sunwell in an attempt to force them back onto that plot, when the more enticing and interesting one of their role in the coming war between the void and the light is just over the horizon, is redundant and boring storytelling.
    And this is prime example of what I meant that most Blood Elf players don't care about what made Blood Elves unique.

    All they care is that "High Elves" get to be on Horde and don't care that what made their narrative unique in the first place is gone.

    Looks over Lore, as I have always said.

    But will try to defend them and say "placing them on Horde makes so unique omg! Don't you guys understand Warcraft!!?"

    And then berate and screech at those who want Alliance High Elves by trying to say, "why would you want such a boring, typical, fantasy staple."

    Hmm maybe for the same reasons that are clearly shown here?

  10. #6050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Just as people hope Lor'themar beheads both Umbric and Alleria infront of the gates of Silvermoon.


    Everyone has unrealistic desires.
    You mean right after Rommath goes kind of like "I told you to be careful, but noooo!"

  11. #6051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    You mean right after Rommath goes kind of like "I told you to be careful, but noooo!"
    I have a theory that if everyone listened to Rommath the first time he said something the Blood Elves would be in a much better place overall.

    He told Umbric not to mess with the Void, Umbric and his followers get turned into Void monstrosities.

    He told Aethas not to trust Dalaran, immediately followed by the purge.

    He told Lor'themar bringing Alleria to the Sunwell was a bad idea, Lor'themar ignored him and brought Alleria to the Sunwell leading to a near catastrophe.

    He wanted to arrest Alleria but Lor'themar let her go. Can't wait to see how this bites the Horde in the ass.

    Long story short in a crisis take a deep breath, keep calm and do whatever the fuck Grand Magister Rommath says.

  12. #6052
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    And this is prime example of what I meant that most Blood Elf players don't care about what made Blood Elves unique.

    All they care is that "High Elves" get to be on Horde and don't care that what made their narrative unique in the first place is gone.

    Looks over Lore, as I have always said.

    But will try to defend them and say "placing them on Horde makes so unique omg! Don't you guys understand Warcraft!!?"

    And then berate and screech at those who want Alliance High Elves by trying to say, "why would you want such a boring, typical, fantasy staple."

    Hmm maybe for the same reasons that are clearly shown here?
    This is a real good summary of the issue. The thought "Blood Elves ARE High Elves! You can't take what makes the Horde 'Horde!'" can't even be called short-sighted, it's basically being blind. Not only are High Elves an Alliance race first and foremost, but the High Elves that became Blood Elves became them with their own history, failings, and successes. To say "Play Horde, Blood Elves ARE High Elves" is hurting both Blood Elves and High Elves in terms of identity.

    To make things worse, there's a section of players that think that the addition of High Elves to the Alliance would destroy faction balance -- to that, I'd say "awesome", since Horde is 40%+ Blood Elf (already ridiculous), total A:H percentage is 48%/52%, and the top progression guilds are something like 80% Horde. (Here's a video about that whole mess). A more diverse Horde would be excellent, as someone who's played far more on Horde than on Alliance and as someone who is a massive fan of Sin'dorei.
    Last edited by ninthbelief; 2018-05-24 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Got so excited about the 80% progression guild number that I forgot to include the overall faction percentages.

  13. #6053
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninthbelief View Post
    This is a real good summary of the issue. The thought "Blood Elves ARE High Elves! You can't take what makes the Horde 'Horde!'" can't even be called short-sighted, it's basically being blind. Not only are High Elves an Alliance race first and foremost, but the High Elves that became Blood Elves became them with their own history, failings, and successes.
    High Elves are not an Alliance race first and foremost. In fact they were the last race to join the Alliance and they did so under compulsion. They were also the very first to leave the Alliance. Secondly 'High Elves that became Blood Elves became them with their own history, failings, and successes.' is such an incorrect statement it's hard to know where to begin.

    Blood Elves are High Elves. They changed the name. In every other respect they are the High Elves.

    They possess the land of Quel'thalas, the city of Silvermoon, the Sunwell, the Farstriders, the Magisters, the Blood Knights and an unbroken lineage of rulers. The Blood Elves did not abandon their past when they renamed themselves, it is those in the Alliance who left their people, not the other way around.


    Quote Originally Posted by ninthbelief View Post
    To say "Play Horde, Blood Elves ARE High Elves" is hurting both Blood Elves and High Elves in terms of identity.
    Blood Elves ARE High Elves. This does not hurt their identity because it is a statement of fact and has been stated by the devs on multiple occasions, the most recent being four weeks ago. Pretending that the High Elves in the Alliance are radically different from the Blood Elves is a stance motivated solely by the desire to prove they are different enough to qualify as an Allied race. We have too much in game evidence and word of god evidence from the developers to give that notion credence.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninthbelief View Post
    To make things worse, there's a section of players that think that the addition of High Elves to the Alliance would destroy faction balance -- to that, I'd say "awesome", since Horde is 40%+ Blood Elf (already ridiculous), total A:H percentage is 48%/52%, and the top progression guilds are something like 80% Horde. (Here's a video about that whole mess). A more diverse Horde would be excellent, as someone who's played far more on Horde than on Alliance and as someone who is a massive fan of Sin'dorei.
    Faction balance is irrelevant in terms of numbers in my opinion. Faction integrity and identity are more important. Granting a duplicate of a core Horde race to the Alliance undermines that integrity, 'blurring the faction lines' as Ion put it.

    Issues with the top raiding guilds, which represent a tiny proportion of the playerbase, are not going to be solved by the addition of Alliance High Elves, something which would have an impact on everyone else in the game.

    The Horde is already plenty diverse regardless. Everyone has the choice of what to play. Blood Elves are the most popular. Elves are always popular.

  14. #6054
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    High Elves are not an Alliance race first and foremost. In fact they were the last race to join the Alliance and they did so under compulsion. They were also the very first to leave the Alliance. Secondly 'High Elves that became Blood Elves became them with their own history, failings, and successes.' is such an incorrect statement it's hard to know where to begin.

    Blood Elves are High Elves. They changed the name. In every other respect they are the High Elves.

    They possess the land of Quel'thalas, the city of Silvermoon, the Sunwell, the Farstriders, the Magisters, the Blood Knights and an unbroken lineage of rulers. The Blood Elves did not abandon their past when they renamed themselves, it is those in the Alliance who left their people, not the other way around.
    What is the matter on BE having BE things? and Why is important the chronology of events? HE are alliance now, the past, is past. Do you want to talk about Gilneas?

  15. #6055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    What is the matter on BE having BE things? and Why is important the chronology of events? HE are alliance now, the past, is past. Do you want to talk about Gilneas?
    Not really no, this is the High Elf thread.

    The point is that the Blood Elves are the High Elves, and that by demonstrating that they possess everything that makes a High Elf a High Elf, it goes to show that just as Ion said, as Chris said, as the game says on numerous occasions, Blood Elves are High Elves, the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and that if you want to play a High Elf, the option is available.

  16. #6056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Not really no, this is the High Elf thread.

    The point is that the Blood Elves are the High Elves, and that by demonstrating that they possess everything that makes a High Elf a High Elf, it goes to show that just as Ion said, as Chris said, as the game says on numerous occasions, Blood Elves are High Elves, the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and that if you want to play a High Elf, the option is available.
    Why is Gilneas in the Alliance? they were some of the first to leave, and they re-entered later on, after the Northrend events, and you know why i point this out.

    Quel'thalas, Silvermoon, Sunwell, Bloodknights, all those are exclusively BE things, magisters and 'farstriders' (a flavor of rangers) is the less BE things that they have.
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2018-05-24 at 10:52 PM. Reason: typo

  17. #6057
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Not really no, this is the High Elf thread.

    The point is that the Blood Elves are the High Elves, and that by demonstrating that they possess everything that makes a High Elf a High Elf, it goes to show that just as Ion said, as Chris said, as the game says on numerous occasions, Blood Elves are High Elves, the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and that if you want to play a High Elf, the option is available.
    There are high elves in the Alliance though, and they've received even more spotlight than their fellow blood elf brethren. They are an allied race, just not playable. That's enough of a reason for me to see them being playable in the future.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, high elves are part of the Alliance even if blood elves are on the Horde.

  18. #6058
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grythletubs View Post
    There are high elves in the Alliance though, and they've received even more spotlight than their fellow blood elf brethren. They are an allied race, just not playable. That's enough of a reason for me to see them being playable in the future.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, high elves are part of the Alliance even if blood elves are on the Horde.
    In what reality is that true?
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  19. #6059
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    In what reality is that true?
    Have you watches any of the cinematics or listened to voice overs lately involving elves latelt? Most of them involve silver covenenant, Vereesa and Alleria.

    The only active blood elf npcs we've seen is Liadrin.

    The same thing is clear with the books. Little to no blood elf presence in comparison to dear Vereesa.

    If people want high elves to stop being requested, they should probably ask Blizzard to stop flaunting them with every opportunity.

    They're an alliance allied race that's received more spotlight than any other race in the Alliance other than humans, yet requesting them being playable is somehow outrageous?
    Reflect on that for a moment.

  20. #6060
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grythletubs View Post
    Have you watches any of the cinematics or listened to voice overs lately involving elves latelt? Most of them involve silver covenenant, Vereesa and Alleria.
    A moment of lore does not outweigh every single story the blood elves have, they absolutely crush the high elves in lore and focus. Name one important high elf outside of Alleria and Vereesa with even a smidgen of story.

    If people want high elves to stop being requested, they should probably ask Blizzard to stop flaunting them with every opportunity.
    People won't stop, but it doesn't magically increase the likelyhood they will be playable, nor does it make the High elves more important than they actually have been.

    They're an alliance allied race that's received more spotlight than any other race in the Alliance other than humans, yet requesting them being playable is somehow outrageous?
    Reflect on that for a moment.
    You mean they are a fragment of a Horde race. And it always boils down to that. It's outrageous because of that and always will be. Perhaps some people need to reflect more on the reasons why they are not playable alliance side, and enjoy that Blizzard just doesn't kill off the High elves like they could easily do to close the subject off.

    or you can see how Blizzard has already taken some high elves out of the beta, or in the Warfront's case, turned them into blood elves and put them on the Horde side instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

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