Sylvanas and Teldrassil [SPOILERS]

[mickybrighteyes]

Burned by a third party scenario would be interesting, but they have to do it in a way where both sides think it was the other that did it without revealing the true perpetrator to the audience. Though I'm struggiling to see who exactly benefits from burning it down when the two sides are at war either way.

Gallywix... trade princes... turn into arms dealers trying to rake in as much cash as possible

the good old Jaina/Genn conspiracy idea. one or both working towards sating their personal vendetta against the horde but can't get enough support.... I saw someone toss around the idea of a new strain of worgen spawned from past experiments and having Genn show off some of his old ambition/tactics (instead of apparent loyal dog for Stormwind as we;ve seen more recently).

Dreadlord disguised among teh masses. We still have one missing Nathrezim out there.

[Igneous42]

If this is the lore than it's just as bad and stupid as people thought it'd be. "We're going to end the war by making a big showy declaration of war!" How in any realm of logic would that be the case. "Oh no Sylvanas killed Malfurion (a largely nuetral NPC and respected member to all druids) guess we'll back off now." That is such a dumb plot idea that I literally can't think of a metaphore to comapre it to.

[Magnagarde]

Man, at least the Garrosh fans (myself included) weren't so obsessed with optics they tried to say he wasn't actually responsible for all the reprehensible stuff he did. It was part of the adventure.

That's the difference between being a Horde fan because of an orc and being a Horde fan because of the undead high elf that now leads it.

The former require no additional smoothing out, enjoy things for what they are and have no problem in saying that they enjoy the wrongdoings of the character, whereas the latter require spin-posting and reassurance in the form of illogical fanposts to make themselves feel good knowing their favourite character has continously done wrong.

[Vakir]

So have I and good luck googling it on Wowhead.

I mean, generally the burden of proof works the other way, but it's pretty evident you don't give a shit.

Hey, as long as enough doubt was raised that fewer people buy what you're selling, I'm satisfied.

[Magnagarde]

I mean, generally the burden of proof works the other way, but it's pretty evident you don't give a shit.

Hey, as long as enough doubt was raised that nobody buys it, I'm satisfied.

Nobody buys anything that Theramore posts in regards to Sylvanas in the first place.

[Vakir]

Nobody buys anything that Theramore posts in regards to Sylvanas in the first place.

Now if only that kind of fatigue was applied to any actual story hook that involves Sylvanas, we may actually have a story that can move forward again. Because it'll mean not getting baited by spectacle-driven writing designed to stir up message board debates by a multi-billion dollar corporation through utilizing controversy over meaning.

"Did Sylvanas poison the cookies? Or was it actually an ELABORATELY CRAFTED RUSE done by the 1987 Denver Broncos? Or perhaps, did Sylvanas NOT INTEND to poison the cookies, but wanted to steal them, but she made a misunderstood error for the sake of her survival by---"

Just. Just stop, fucking hell.

[etheldald]

the good old Jaina/Genn conspiracy idea. one or both working towards sating their personal vendetta against the horde but can't get enough support.... I saw someone toss around the idea of a new strain of worgen spawned from past experiments and having Genn show off some of his old ambition/tactics (instead of apparent loyal dog for Stormwind as we;ve seen more recently).

Dreadlord disguised among teh masses. We still have one missing Nathrezim out there.

that would not be necessary since the horde attacking ashenvale is already a declaration of war, genn or jaina don't need to burn teldrassil when the horde already started it.

my bets are that,if sylvanas wanted to capture and take the heads of malfurion/tyrande but never intended to burn the tree is that malfurion pulled an archimonde and called the wisp to destroy the horde army.

or a third party,let's say azshara planted some azerite bombs, she is the most powerful mage in azeroth and is familiar with the nelfs, she could easily bypass the nelfs defences and infiltrate, doing that would enrage the alliance so much that both sides will destroy each other feeding the olds gods, who love conflicts.

[-aiko-]

Wow, I'm surprised the whole wheel didn't break with that massive spin.

[Magnagarde]

Now if only that kind of fatigue was applied to any actual story hook that involves Sylvanas, we may actually have a story that can move forward again. Because it'll mean not getting baited by spectacle-driven writing designed to stir up message board debates by a multi-billion dollar corporation through utilizing controversy over meaning.

"Did Sylvanas poison the cookies? Or was it actually an ELABORATELY CRAFTED RUSE done by the 1987 Denver Broncos? Or perhaps, did Sylvanas NOT INTEND to poison the cookies, but wanted to steal them, but she made a misunderstood error for the sake of her survival by---"

Just. Just stop, fucking hell.

Of course. By extension it also applies to anything related to Sylvanas since around WotLK.

[mickybrighteyes]

that would not be necessary since the horde attacking ashenvale is already a declaration of war, genn or jaina don't need to burn teldrassil when the horde already started it.

The thinking was that even if the horde was just initiating an attack it could be thought that it might not be enough of a reason to forsake attempts at peace.

Like it could be known that the attack, of some sort, was coming, but Jaina/Genn wanted to have a good reason for their allies to fully commit to an all out conflict.

[Vakir]

Of course. By extension it also applies to anything related to Sylvanas since around WotLK.

THANK YOU. That's when everything fell apart and I felt wildly out of touch with the story direction (and gameplay homogenization, but that's a separate topic).

Everyone holds up the Wrathgate as some kind of weird bastion and I'm just like "This feels like the precise moment stupid pills were taken, why am I the only one seeing this?"

[Dellis0991]

Here's more to stir the pot: What -if- ELUNE burned it down?

If you played a night elf she used you to save the tree by finally killing the brought of corruption which purified it....but then again we don't know much about her so anything is possible....hell even hogger could have did it.

[Magnagarde]

THANK YOU. That's when everything fell apart and I felt wildly out of touch with the story direction (and gameplay homogenization, but that's a separate topic).

Everyone holds up the Wrathgate as some kind of weird bastion and I'm just like "This feels like the precise moment stupid pills were taken, why am I the only one seeing this?"

It preceeded and set the stage for so many things that started slowly unraveling afterwards and were out of touch with the story or straight up bad for its future.

In the end, the only purpose is to keep the meatgrinder going by throwing in meat that has been thawed and frozen over a dozen times already.

[Qualia]

The thinking was that even if the horde was just initiating an attack it could be thought that it might not be enough of a reason to forsake attempts at peace.

Like it could be known that the attack, of some sort, was coming, but Jaina/Genn wanted to have a good reason for their allies to fully commit to an all out conflict.

I'm sure having your people (both soldiers and non-combatants) killed and losing your home - regardless whether it was burned or captured - is enough reason for the Night Elves to forsake any attempts at peace, even if for some weird reason Anduin & the Alliance decide to keep on with it. In fact, Genn could burn the tree in front of the NE and they'd still blame Sylvanas as she was the one who brought forth the circumstances for that burning to happen.

[Whitedragon]

The thinking was that even if the horde was just initiating an attack it could be thought that it might not be enough of a reason to forsake attempts at peace.

Like it could be known that the attack, of some sort, was coming, but Jaina/Genn wanted to have a good reason for their allies to fully commit to an all out conflict.

In the coming book even Anduin even admits after watching Sylvanas butcher her own people that She is most likely beyond peace or saveing, after a full on attack on night elf lands the war is started, not even he would try and stop it, Sylvanas is far to paranoid to be capable of peace only with her removal can such a thing be.

[mickybrighteyes]

I'm sure having your people (both soldiers and non-combatants) killed and losing your home - regardless whether it was burned or captured - is enough reason for the Night Elves to forsake any attempts at peace, even if for some weird reason Anduin & the Alliance decide to keep on with it. In fact, Genn could burn the tree in front of the NE and they'd still blame Sylvanas as she was the one who brought forth the circumstances for that burning to happen.

getting the night elves to act isn't the same as getting the Alliance to fully commit though. Another thing is, in that last bit, they might blame themselves since they didn't HAVE to bring the Gilneans across the sea (although I still wonder why that choice was made story wise.... it'd have made more sense for stormwind vessels to show up IMO and maybe rake genn over the coals for events after the second war)

- - - Updated - - -

In the coming book even Anduin even admits after watching Sylvanas butcher her own people that She is most likely beyond peace or saveing,

Taking place after the events. I'm assuming this is part of the "Before the Storm" teasers.

peace only with her removal can such a thing be.

this is where I have to disagree, entirely because you're showing a rather narrow view on what peace could exist. Fact is there are still multiple ways to play this out. Sylvanas' death. A large loss of the Alliance main character roster (cause lets be honest... there haven't really been many Alliance deaths while every expansion has sent horde ones to the chopping block) like Vareesa, Jaina, Genn, etc. Actual restriction to the various continents (say what you will about the cata campaigns, but at least the horde was advancing into territories near their own lands and not the heart of the other factions area). And the worst option being intervention of another outside force to be dubbed as the true evil and halting the conflict somehow.

Yes sylvanas is paranoid, it's not like the other faction ISN'T sitting there with main advisers who who tried to attack and destroy her or her territories or anything and have pledged themselves to the destruction of her or her holdings... It's not exactly paranoia when they ARE out to get you.

[Qualia]

Taking place after the events. I'm assuming this is part of the "Before the Storm" teasers.

What? The events in "Before the Storm" happened before Teldrassil.

[Aeula]

Jaina did it.

Please let Jaina have done it.

[mickybrighteyes]

What? The events in "Before the Storm" happened before Teldrassil.

really? cool. still waiting for full context and not teasers then.

Cause it seems we had an attempted coup under the forsaken (again... wrathgate 2.0) or aleader going batshit killing people (based on the way people talk about it)

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

In the alpha/beta Sylvanas had a quest at 101 for you to go meet Anduin Wrynn and reestablish peace as a Horde character.

Why would you lie about this? What do you get out of it?