Discussing why SotA is being removed.

[LedZeppelin]

Does this mean the battlemaster achievement will be changed? I dont wanna plant all those bombs.

[Arrashi]

Because its in pretty broken state right now, and blizzard doesn't want to commit resources to fix it/revamp it.

[therealstegblob]

Because its in pretty broken state right now, and blizzard doesn't want to commit resources to fix it/revamp it.

They can't really fix it or revamp it. Doing either of those things means they'd essentially just be changing it into an entirely new BG. Sort of pointless when they could just remove it and add and entirely new BG in its place.

[Battlebeard]

Whatever people think of it, there is no need to remove it.

Just keep it as a specific battleground. Take it out of Random Battleground roster and of course not part of RBG. But let those who like it, (I really, really like it) be able to queue up specific for it.

Heck, even remove all kinds of rewards from playing it, including honor. BUT keep it in game for those who actually enjoy it. I don't care if the queue will be 30min+, I want to play it from time to time for FUN.

Removing things is ALWAYS a bad idea.

[therealstegblob]

Removing things is not always a bad idea. They don't want you to play it, and for good reason. Keeping a BG that rewards nothing and serves no point that has to be specifically queued for means no one will ever play it. Literally no one. You might queue for it, but you'll be stuck in queue for like a fucking week (or forever, lol). And then they'd have to do maintenance and support the BG's existence. So no, removing it is the much better option.

[kran1um]

People who knew how to play it never lost. Certain graveyards its was duck hunt - zero skill it was graveyard based.

[Linkedblade]

They broke it when they removed it being random who was on offense first. But I don't see the issue with it otherwise. It was the last vestige of Wintergrasp and our promised vehicle combat, lol

- - - Updated - - -

People who knew how to play it never lost. Certain graveyards its was duck hunt - zero skill it was graveyard based.

Never take South gy

[Decyde]

It's really obvious they can't balance it right and don't want to invest the time and money into doing so. If they didn't remove it, it would just turn into a bomb running fest after the next stat squish.

I'm sure they might do something with it in the future since Blizzard recycles everything but removing it requires less work on their part to balance 1 BG.

[Deleted]

When I heard it was going to be removed, I started running it to go from 27 wins to 100. Three weeks later, I am still at 27 wins.
Screw that BG, screw PvP, good riddance.

How? I had 23 wins left to go and got them with a 60-70% winrate.

They can't really fix it or revamp it. Doing either of those things means they'd essentially just be changing it into an entirely new BG. Sort of pointless when they could just remove it and add and entirely new BG in its place.

It takes less work to fix it than AV or IOC needs, both of which are nigh unplayable in their current state, especially IOC where the optimal strategy is to let an idiot on the enemy team cap your GY and then farm them at it to win via resources.

All IoC needed was a revert to WOTLK where the demolishers were slower, tankier and took longer to respawn and bombs less impactful. It's a less abusive BG than the larger ones or even CTF BGs currently are with the state of DH flag carriers.

[therealstegblob]

All IoC needed was a revert to WOTLK where the demolishers were slower, tankier and took longer to respawn and bombs less impactful. It's a less abusive BG than the larger ones or even CTF BGs currently are with the state of DH flag carriers.

While this would make demolishers better, it would not solve any of the BG's core issues. The problem with the battleground is that demolishers can't be properly balanced. They need to be good enough to break walls but also not so good that they can't be killed. The core issue is that there's two things you have to worry about on defense: demolishers and people running bombs. There's too much micromanagement involved in decisions so it means mechanics have to be made more shallow.

And then of course there's the glaring issue that the map itself is bad. The last two gates being single doors means the whole thing turns into a big stupid chokefest and you win or lose based on literally nothing more than which team happened to blob the most efficiently. Most matches of SotA end with the Titan Relic chamber door never getting hit by a demolisher even once, because you can't approach the door from any direction except directly towards it. Your demolisher is fucked if the enemy is smart enough to just DoT it up. There's no skill or thought included.

[Minttunator]

Didn't know that SotA was being removed! I don't mind seeing it go but if they're removing terrible BG-s, I think they should've started with IoC.

[Lord Pebbleton]

How? I had 23 wins left to go and got them with a 60-70% winrate.

I wish I knew. I should mention I play Alliance. I just don't want to put up with that crap just for a virtual plaque that says I'm good at removed content.

[Kagthul]

They broke it when they removed it being random who was on offense first. But I don't see the issue with it otherwise. It was the last vestige of Wintergrasp and our promised vehicle combat, lol

- - - Updated - - -



Never take South gy

When on D, the best thing i can ever see is that the enemy team just capped the SGY.

Its like “hey, thanks for throwing us the game, guys.”

[Deleted]

While this would make demolishers better, it would not solve any of the BG's core issues. The problem with the battleground is that demolishers can't be properly balanced. They need to be good enough to break walls but also not so good that they can't be killed. The core issue is that there's two things you have to worry about on defense: demolishers and people running bombs. There's too much micromanagement involved in decisions so it means mechanics have to be made more shallow.

Demolishers just need to be balanced in a position where they're killable but require people to actually switch. Stopping them killing gates shouldn't be the goal, slowing them down should. A stealther (or an ignored non-stealther) with a functional brain can farm backline demolishers to 10% before anyone gets in them and leave them nigh useless unless the attacking team spends resources dealing with him.

The only micromanagement you really need is people splitting into even groups to defend the two gates, beyond that it's no harder than a BFG or AB, fight around the door and interupt bomb droppers, focus down demolishers if ones spawning in.

And then of course there's the glaring issue that the map itself is bad. The last two gates being single doors means the whole thing turns into a big stupid chokefest and you win or lose based on literally nothing more than which team happened to blob the most efficiently. Most matches of SotA end with the Titan Relic chamber door never getting hit by a demolisher even once, because you can't approach the door from any direction except directly towards it. Your demolisher is fucked if the enemy is smart enough to just DoT it up. There's no skill or thought included.

You've had vastly different experiences to me if that's what you think. I'm not a fan of current demolisher / bomb balance, but it's the most tactically supporting it's been.

Demolishers range and ability to keep shooting means that they force the enemy team to deal with them.
Bombs incredibly high damage force the enemy to keep a constant vigil on the door.

The last two gates are fantastic tug of wars between bomb groups trying to force the enemy to fight by their gate to deal with them and demolishers pulling people away, teams that can win the team fight there are at a huge advantage, people who drive demolishers into the enemy team can single handedly lose the fight, people splitting demolishers up to opposite sides in the courtyard can win games by creating distance between priority targets and defending kill-teams keeping spawning demolishers low can cripple an offensive team that doesn't react.

The way the BG is usually lost is the offensive team getting lazy and ignoring the demolishers on the beach. Taking 4 demolishers into the courtyard with your team applying bomb pressure is a strong push.

Not sure where your claim about "Most matches of SOTA end with the Titan Relic chamber never getting hit by a demolisher", but that's usually the sign of a loss in my books. Nearly all of my losses come from people being unwilling to go back and get demolishers, most of my wins include demolishers demolishing the titan gate door while there's a desperate fight to stop bombs.

I'm EU, I'm not sure if you're US or something and that explains the difference in perception, but it's only recently that I spammed out the last 23 wins to hit 100 so my memory is pretty fresh. I'm open to people claiming the BG is bad and while I disagree (at least in comparison to other offenders on the BG list), I can understand why people don't like it, but the BG has plenty of strategy that can be deployed and demolishers I find vital in the last push.

I wish I knew. I should mention I play Alliance. I just don't want to put up with that crap just for a virtual plaque that says I'm good at removed content.

Yeah, I can sympathise - I need like 67 IoC wins for the 100 win meta and I've tried queuing as both factions and only scraped one close win out of it, considering it's an hour long queue and a loss is usually due to Russians grinding you out I've given up on that for now. I was just surprised that you didn't grab a win - I finished my wins off as horde but the win rate was far from dominant enough that I'd expect anyone to be unlucky enough to get zero.

[FelPlague]

I made a video essay on this just because why not. Watch it here if you want.



tl;dw version: Basically they're removing it because it's outdated and wasn't a good BG to ever begin with. Demolishers are bad and weak compared to just zerging gates and fighting the enemy back to drop bombs, turrets are garbage and worthless, the battleground map is bad because gates 3 and 4 (yellow sun and relic chamber) turn into congested fuckfests of blob vs. blob with literally zero real strategy involved and to "Redesign" the map essentially means that'd have to be changed into an entirely new BG.

So there you go. Your thoughts?

Quick tip.
The mods dont like people linking their own videos.
Cause they rather noit people just make their own threads to cover the forums trying to get famous.

If you want to make a point, make a point, dont link your video making that point. because we dont want us listening to your opinion earn you money

- - - Updated - - -

Whatever people think of it, there is no need to remove it.

Just keep it as a specific battleground. Take it out of Random Battleground roster and of course not part of RBG. But let those who like it, (I really, really like it) be able to queue up specific for it.

Heck, even remove all kinds of rewards from playing it, including honor. BUT keep it in game for those who actually enjoy it. I don't care if the queue will be 30min+, I want to play it from time to time for FUN.

Removing things is ALWAYS a bad idea.

it most likely will stay a wargame, just not random or specific que.

[therealstegblob]

Demolishers just need to be balanced in a position where they're killable but require people to actually switch. Stopping them killing gates shouldn't be the goal, slowing them down should. A stealther (or an ignored non-stealther) with a functional brain can farm backline demolishers to 10% before anyone gets in them and leave them nigh useless unless the attacking team spends resources dealing with him.

Look at how you're describing this BG, man. It's not PvP to run back to the beaches and DPS down stationary targets. Sure, PvP can happen because of it (some people may defend the demolishers) but it's all stupid. Running back to the beaches to get into a demolisher and then sloooooooowly drive it all the way up the map while never PvPing anyone (just hoping you don't get attacked by a feral druid or something) isn't PvP.

The last two gates are fantastic tug of wars between bomb groups trying to force the enemy to fight by their gate to deal with them and demolishers pulling people away, teams that can win the team fight there are at a huge advantage, people who drive demolishers into the enemy team can single handedly lose the fight, people splitting demolishers up to opposite sides in the courtyard can win games by creating distance between priority targets and defending kill-teams keeping spawning demolishers low can cripple an offensive team that doesn't react.

100% disagree with this and most people do, too. Including Blizzard. You're really glorifying with words what is nothing more than blob vs. blob at gates. If the defending team just kills demolishers and AoEs the gate, the attacking team is almost virtually guaranteed to lose. It's hard to tactically "outplay" people on SotA because it's such a shitty, shallow BG.

Nearly all of my losses come from people being unwilling to go back and get demolishers

And here you come full circle, unwittingly explaining one of the biggest things wrong with the BG.

[Jingoism]

Because it was awful. First iterations of it were more fun at least, but it's a garbage fire.

[therealstegblob]

Quick tip.

Are you a moderator?

it most likely will stay a wargame, just not random or specific que.

Nah, it's being removed completely. The two raid BGs are being added to their own specific "Epic BG" queue (or whatever they're calling it). SotA is just getting axed.

[EbonBehelit-]

I'm pretty stoked for this tbh: SotA was annoying even when it came out back in Wrath, but it became fucking awful when they later reworked it. It's been permanently on my blacklist ever since the feature was implemented.

Now they just need to remove Battle for Waterworks, and we'll be set.

[therealstegblob]

Battle for Gilneas sucks too, yeah. Huge problem with it is that it's a three-node BG. Meaning, yeah, most matches just turn into a fight over Waterworks with occasional pushes/defenses on the other two nodes.