Actually moderate threads instead of knee-jerk closing them

[Caolela]

Moderation on here has always been a joke.

Most of the time, yep, but not all. Mods should also be required to post who they are when they infract someone but they don't have the integrity or backbone.

[Endus]

Bad assumption on my part.

Yeah, it's fine, people wanted a story, and they tweaked the facts to fit their internal narratives. If it seemed like I was hostile to you personally, I wasn't trying to be, I just wanted to take a moment to clear the air on it. None of it's a secret, I've just never had any real motivation to bring it up.

[Dacien]

I see this come up a fair bit. I wasn't "removed". I stepped down, for two reasons. The first is that I simply didn't have time; some folks may have noticed I've been posting a fair bit less than I used to. I'm still FAIRLY active, but it's not consistent, and I felt that wasn't a good factor for my modding. I'm busy.

The second, just look at this thread, and how much abuse is being leveled my way, without any real basis for it. I'm sure after saying this there'll even be some people saying "oh, there's a basis", but really, it's just legacy hatred of a fairly active moderator. There's a few folks who've reached out to give me support over the years, and I appreciate every word of that folks, but the proportion swings hard towards the haters. That wears you down. Moderators were expected to take a certain amount of flak on the chin, so to speak, and I just got tired of being a punching bag.

Anyway, long story short, definitely not asked to step down or leave, nor was I kicked out. I stepped down because I didn't want to do it any more, and nothing else. Anyone telling you otherwise is making it up and has no idea what they're talking about.

This may be a bit over the line, and I have my doubts about posting it, but you deserve the support. We disagree immensely on issues, we do. But the accusations of bias against you always give me a chuckle. You were always very fair and reasonable in appeals and otherwise. I'm sure someone could probably dig up some dubious infraction somewhere, but you were never a biased mod.

[Mifuyne]

Most of the time, yep, but not all. Mods should also be required to post who they are when they infract someone but they don't have the integrity or backbone.

So every infraction they dish out makes people spam message them?

This may be a bit over the line, and I have my doubts about posting it, but you deserve the support. We disagree immensely on issues, we do. But the accusations of bias against you always give me a chuckle. You were always very fair and reasonable in appeals and otherwise. I'm sure someone could probably dig up some dubious infraction somewhere, but you were never a biased mod.

Same, seems only extreme lefties/righties keep on whining about shit.

[callipygoustp]

Yeah, it's fine, people wanted a story, and they tweaked the facts to fit their internal narratives. If it seemed like I was hostile to you personally, I wasn't trying to be, I just wanted to take a moment to clear the air on it. None of it's a secret, I've just never had any real motivation to bring it up.

For the record, I've never felt you were hostile to me. I may not always agree with you but I appreciate your posts for the effort you put in to support your point of view. You are one of 10 or so posters on this forum that I will take the time to read posts from whether your are inline with my views or not.

[Eleccybubb]

Wahhhhhhhhhh. I don't like what someone has to say. BAN THEM!!!!! NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES, I CAN'T AFFORD TO SEE THEIR OPINION.

You are a pathetic human being.

No what's pathetic is freely going around saying morbid crap online just because of anonymity.

You are free to dislike or not have an opinion. But openly glorifying someones death isn't an opinion. It's just morbid.

[Amerrol]

I see this come up a fair bit. I wasn't "removed". I stepped down, for two reasons. The first is that I simply didn't have time; some folks may have noticed I've been posting a fair bit less than I used to. I'm still FAIRLY active, but it's not consistent, and I felt that wasn't a good factor for my modding. I'm busy.

The second, just look at this thread, and how much abuse is being leveled my way, without any real basis for it. I'm sure after saying this there'll even be some people saying "oh, there's a basis", but really, it's just legacy hatred of a fairly active moderator. There's a few folks who've reached out to give me support over the years, and I appreciate every word of that folks, but the proportion swings hard towards the haters. That wears you down. Moderators were expected to take a certain amount of flak on the chin, so to speak, and I just got tired of being a punching bag.

Anyway, long story short, definitely not asked to step down or leave, nor was I kicked out. I stepped down because I didn't want to do it any more, and nothing else. Anyone telling you otherwise is making it up and has no idea what they're talking about.

I don't think anyone hated you, man, but you were incredibly biased, and pretending otherwise is just silly. You're obviously a smart guy, and you made some reasonable arguments from time to time (more often then most SJWs on here), but no one wants their moderator constantly spouting their own political leanings and then banning anyone who doesn't agree with them, no matter what the rules are. That's why no other mods get as much flak as you did, they're tactful about it (most of them).

I think overall you'll get a much better response to your opinions now that you're not a mod, even if people don't agree with you. You're honestly one of the people here that is most likely to change the minds of dissenting posters. Just don't go sarah or Elba crazy on us, and don't be a constant victim.

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No what's pathetic is freely going around saying morbid crap online just because of anonymity.

You are free to dislike or not have an opinion. But openly glorifying someones death isn't an opinion. It's just morbid.

WTF are you taking about?

[Endus]

This may be a bit over the line, and I have my doubts about posting it, but you deserve the support. We disagree immensely on issues, we do. But the accusations of bias against you always give me a chuckle. You were always very fair and reasonable in appeals and otherwise. I'm sure someone could probably dig up some dubious infraction somewhere, but you were never a biased mod.

I think a lot of it boils down to scale, too.

It's a clumsy example, but think of "racist content" being ranked on a scale of 0-10. It breaks site rules if it hits a 4 or better (to make up numbers that don't mean anything). There's a bit of wiggle room allowed, some leeway. If someone gets infracted for a post they think is a 4, but it goes to appeals and the mod team thinks it's a 3-3.5, it'll get overturned. It doesn't mean the post was a 0 and was totes okay and the mod shouldn't have considered it. It's absolutely a subjective judgement call.

Consider flaming, which is pretty clear-cut. Calling someone a "fucktard cuntmonkey" is probably, like, an 8 or 9 on the "flaming" scale. Calling someone a "silly billy"? A "1". The mod team wouldn't slap that (not without other context, at least, before someone digs up an example I don't know of). Exactly what level of insult is going to cross the line to a "4" and be worth hitting is a judgement call. It gets a bit easier when there's some precedence on specific insults, but other issues get more subjective than that.

That's why the ban appeals system exists and works off a democratic vote system by the mods.

The mod team totally doesn't have a number ranking system; I'm just making this up to demonstrate a point.

[sweatshopkids]

I'm not sure whats so hard about just enforcing the rules that were established literally on page 1.

They're just following in Blizzard's footsteps about forum moderation.

[Endus]

I don't think anyone hated you, man, but you were incredibly biased, and pretending otherwise is just silly.

Honestly, the accusation annoys me.

I've always had strong opinions. Moderators were never expected to not have such. And the accusation that I banned people for "disagreeing with me"? I strongly avoided moderating in any threads I was active in at all, unless it was SUPER clear cut and didn't directly involve me in the first place (say, User A calling User B a "fucking shithead" in a side discussion I wasn't part of). Hell, there were occasionally times I deliberately didn't participate in a thread because I knew it would require heavy moderation.

It's a lazy accusation. People who kept toeing the line consistently crossed it and moderation took action when they did. That's what you're really describing.

[Amerrol]

Honestly, the accusation annoys me.

I've always had strong opinions. Moderators were never expected to not have such. And the accusation that I banned people for "disagreeing with me"? I strongly avoided moderating in any threads I was active in at all, unless it was SUPER clear cut and didn't directly involve me in the first place (say, User A calling User B a "fucking shithead" in a side discussion I wasn't part of). Hell, there were occasionally times I deliberately didn't participate in a thread because I knew it would require heavy moderation.

It's a lazy accusation. People who kept toeing the line consistently crossed it and moderation took action when they did. That's what you're really describing.

That's clearly a lie. How many people have called you out for banning them for saying something that could be perceived as negative about Muslims in threads you were an active participant in. Half a dozen in this current thread alone, I bet. I know I'm one of them for sure. And I don't mean shit like "Muslims should be exterminated," because that is clearly hate speech. Shit, comments like "truck of peace" used to get bans on the regular whenever you were around. Now how many other mods get called out on such a consistent basis?

We all have our biases man, but pretending you didn't abuse your power is disingenuous at best, and makes you a flat out liar at worst.

[Skroe]

If it was anyone else I'd give them the benefit of the doubt (except maybe sarah). I've seen you post. There is no reasoning with you. You don't want debate.

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Oh crap, I thought you were Elba, considering you both had that retarded avatar at one point or another, and I've had a few too many beers. My bad. Yeah, you're not completely bat-shit, and I've seen you post some reasonable shit before.

Elba stole my avatar, which was a cover of Der Spiegel, because I pissed him off.

No worries.

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I see this come up a fair bit. I wasn't "removed". I stepped down, for two reasons. The first is that I simply didn't have time; some folks may have noticed I've been posting a fair bit less than I used to. I'm still FAIRLY active, but it's not consistent, and I felt that wasn't a good factor for my modding. I'm busy.

The second, just look at this thread, and how much abuse is being leveled my way, without any real basis for it. I'm sure after saying this there'll even be some people saying "oh, there's a basis", but really, it's just legacy hatred of a fairly active moderator. There's a few folks who've reached out to give me support over the years, and I appreciate every word of that folks, but the proportion swings hard towards the haters. That wears you down. Moderators were expected to take a certain amount of flak on the chin, so to speak, and I just got tired of being a punching bag.

Anyway, long story short, definitely not asked to step down or leave, nor was I kicked out. I stepped down because I didn't want to do it any more, and nothing else. Anyone telling you otherwise is making it up and has no idea what they're talking about.


I'm not going to contribute to discussing moderation, since it's against site rules for a reason. If you want to PM me to ask about why the mod team has certain policies, I can give you some policy-based explanations, much like you'd get from any existing mod, but I've got no reason to be giving anyone the "party line" any more. I won't breach anyone's privacy, either other users or the mod team's, but I can speak to why things might be the way they are.

For what it's worth, although our politics venn diagram doesn't have an enormous amount of overlap, I've never thought you did anything other than a perfectly fair job with moderation. The criticism leveled to you has always been bullshit.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Surprised I haven't had any infractions lately.

I haven't either but I see it every time I come on here with certain mods infracting people due to having opposite and or conflicting opinions. It's absurd and I too have been a victim of it in the past.

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Honestly, the accusation annoys me.

I've always had strong opinions. Moderators were never expected to not have such. And the accusation that I banned people for "disagreeing with me"? I strongly avoided moderating in any threads I was active in at all, unless it was SUPER clear cut and didn't directly involve me in the first place (say, User A calling User B a "fucking shithead" in a side discussion I wasn't part of). Hell, there were occasionally times I deliberately didn't participate in a thread because I knew it would require heavy moderation.

It's a lazy accusation. People who kept toeing the line consistently crossed it and moderation took action when they did. That's what you're really describing.

I never had a problem with you. You were in my eyes, the best mod of OT forums no matter what those toxic posters said about you, you were fair in discussion and calm, very descriptive in your arguments and debates when it came to politics as well.

[Jtbrig7390]

It's a lazy accusation. People who kept toeing the line consistently crossed it and moderation took action when they did. That's what you're really describing.

Even tho I admit I been a smart ass at times, I still think you was a fairly decent mod.

Never thought ur bans had bias. There has only ever been one mod I thought that about and I won't name them because it is pointless.

(Before anyone says anything no it isn't Edge).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That's clearly a lie. How many people have called you out for banning them for saying something that could be perceived as negative about Muslims in threads you were an active participant in. Half a dozen in this current thread alone, I bet. I know I'm one of them for sure. And I don't mean shit like "Muslims should be exterminated," because that is clearly hate speech. Shit, comments like "truck of peace" used to get bans on the regular whenever you were around. Now how many other mods get called out on such a consistent basis?

We all have our biases man, but pretending you didn't abuse your power is disingenuous at best, and makes you a flat out liar at worst.

I'm having a very hard time believing this, I've seen posters act really whiny about mods and these same posters have a tendancy to well have a bad track record.

[Dastreus]

In b4 thread closed for discussing forum policies.

[Endus]

That's clearly a lie. How many people have called you out for banning them for saying something that could be perceived as negative about Muslims in threads you were an active participant in.

If you're just going to straight-up ignore what I'm trying to tell you to continue to lie about my conduct to slander me, I'm just not going to bother responding any more. I brought this up to clarify some things, not to invite bullshit accusations.

[Boricha]

If the issue is a lack of mods to oversee the site, then perhaps a priority system would make sense? I imagine threads like the TB thread that are timely and getting a massive amount of posts are more important to mod than a dozen random threads getting 10 posts an hour.

[Amerrol]

I'm having a very hard time believing this, I've seen posters act really whiny about mods and these same posters have a tendancy to well have a bad track record.

How often have you seen people post outright hateful speech that calls for the murder of certain groups in Gen-OT? To me, that is ban worthy. Making a snarky comment or imply certain groups have a tendency towards certain behavior isn't really worth a ban, unless you are a crusading SJW. At best, delete the post if it affects your delicate sensibilities so much.

[Video Games]

I got infracted in the tb thread about him stepping down all because i said he has had bad behavior. I got it overturned becuase some people like to over moderate.