Abortion in Ireland: Yes wins

[Swalload]

The only way to perceive a foetus as a human being is to artificially create that notion. You are free to consider a foetus a human being as soon as it is conceived and never abort it but you should never get to have a say regarding other people and their pregnancies.




1. We do not consider stem cells to be humans, for a reason. Unless you're crazy enough to claim that too, of course.
2. An alive woman is more important than a clump of cells, simple as. If killing a dog that can't feel pain, has no consciousness, who wouldn't be able to survive without a host organism, does not resemble a dog and not even a puppy in the slightest would be a life changing option for someone else then most people would probably pull the plug, rightfully. And looking back at my description of the said 'dog', does such an organism really even is a dog to begin with?
3. I was taught to make up my own mind based on evidence and logic. Might be a shocker to someone like you.

1. "We do not consider" "we don't really know" "we'll go with what fits our agenda". How about we know it's human and we shouldn't consider it something less to justify our lack of responsibility?
2. No one said a woman's life had to be lost to save a fetus. That's not the idea here and I mentioned earlier that if the pregnancy is threatening the mother, it should be terminated.
3. Easy to say, the issue with "evidence and logic" is that it's easily manipulated by perception and bias, what seems evident and logical to you has the possiblity of being factually wrong in the real world where your perspective is nothing more than a guess. It can seem logical to think that 2+2=22 until you're educated about the actually value of numbers. If can seem logical to think that if you put something over a small tree, the tree will push it up as it grows, until you're educated about how trees grow and you realize the tree will dodge the obstacle and grow crooked.

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I'm sure "your mother should have..." ethic is on people's mind after reading your remark. Or alternatively and sadly, you've overlooked the fact that you potentially involved your own mother as a "whore" into that as well.

My parents wanted 4 kids, they had 4 kids. Not 5 or 6, or 4 with 3 abortions. They're responsible, as everyone should be.

[Evangeliste]

1. "We do not consider" "we don't really know" "we'll go with what fits our agenda". How about we know it's human and we shouldn't consider it something less to justify our lack of responsibility?
2. No one said a woman's life had to be lost to save a fetus. That's not the idea here and I mentioned earlier that if the pregnancy is threatening the mother, it should be terminated.
3. Easy to say, the issue with "evidence and logic" is that it's easily manipulated by perception and bias, what seems evident and logical to you has the possiblity of being factually wrong in the real world where your perspective is nothing more than a guess. It can seem logical to think that 2+2=22 until you're educated about the actually value of numbers. If can seem logical to think that if you put something over a small tree, the tree will push it up as it grows, until you're educated about how trees grow and you realize the tree will dodge the obstacle and grow crooked.

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My parents wanted 4 kids, they had 4 kids. Not 5 or 6, or 4 with 3 abortions. They're responsible, as everyone should be.

And I doubt all 4 of them came exactly when they planned. I just wouldn't say silly and baseless remarks with that kind of generalising attitude.

[Mlz]

1. "We do not consider" "we don't really know" "we'll go with what fits our agenda". How about we know it's human and we shouldn't consider it something less to justify our lack of responsibility?
2. No one said a woman's life had to be lost to save a fetus. That's not the idea here and I mentioned earlier that if the pregnancy is threatening the mother, it should be terminated.
3. Easy to say, the issue with "evidence and logic" is that it's easily manipulated by perception and bias, what seems evident and logical to you has the possiblity of being factually wrong in the real world where your perspective is nothing more than a guess. It can seem logical to think that 2+2=22 until you're educated about the actually value of numbers. If can seem logical to think that if you put something over a small tree, the tree will push it up as it grows, until you're educated about how trees grow and you realize the tree will dodge the obstacle and grow crooked.

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My parents wanted 4 kids, they had 4 kids. Not 5 or 6, or 4 with 3 abortions. They're responsible, as everyone should be.

1. It's not a human. You are free to think it's just a matter of opinion - and then, by your own definition, you cannot claim that only your opinion is right.
2. I didn't mention losing a woman's life. I said it would be a life-changing decision. Pregnancy is fucking brutal and has shittons of complications even at this day and age. You're welcome to tear your ass and vagina and have crippling bladder problems on top of stretch marks and other 'lesser' issues but you even can't get pregnant so yeah, it's always nice to take a high ground regarding issues you personally will never have to deal with. Thinking that having an abortion is just a matter of convenience is just retarded anyway and speaks volumes about your knowledge (as usual).
3. Whoa, thanks for the lessons. And yet still I am not going to blindly believe you and your pinky promise that a foetus is a human being.

Besides, you have literally no idea if your mum had an abortion or not unless you were at the side of her vagina at all times.

[ManiaCCC]

3. Easy to say, the issue with "evidence and logic" is that it's easily manipulated by perception and bias, what seems evident and logical to you has the possiblity of being factually wrong in the real world where your perspective is nothing more than a guess. It can seem logical to think that 2+2=22 until you're educated about the actually value of numbers. If can seem logical to think that if you put something over a small tree, the tree will push it up as it grows, until you're educated about how trees grow and you realize the tree will dodge the obstacle and grow crooked.

But from our current understanding, fetus is not a "human being" for quite a long time (several weeks) defined by simple fact, that there is not a single cell capable to "hold" any sort of conscious. After this period it is up debate what "human being" means but up to this point it is nothing more than developing brainless biomatter - like cancer. (i am not saying fetus is cancer).


It is very important decisions in society are based on what we currently know, not what we believe. Unless you can prove what science is saying is wrong, it is best we have. So for these weeks AT LEAST, woman should have main word about her body.

[Cruor]

I don't understand pro lifers. They are using left wing ways of thinking. Abortion allows us to get rid of future criminals and welfare cases before they become a problem. Sadly in the USA Republicans need to say they are pro life to get elected because they would lose key votes without it, same as Democrats pandering to minorities.

[NihilSustinet]

This kind of thing gives me hope. the world is slowly getting better. the US has taken a big step back. but that happens sometimes. november will be a step back in the right direction.

[Darsithis]

Yes..all about Catholicism. I think the irony is lost on you, and on them that the fact that they voted "NO" in the past is the reason that those folks are alive today to vote "YES". Ah, well good bye Ireland, we hardly knew ye.

People still have children. Legalizing abortion doesn't mean there will be a free-for-all to abort as many pregnancies as people can. It's not a fun procedure. It doesn't make people feel happy. No one gets abortions for the fun of it.

[Fyersing]

I don't care one way or the other about the resultant laws that follow this, but ultimately anything that leads to less Irish is fine by me.

Infracted

[Deleted]

Ireland legalises abortion and the Pope says "God made you this way" to a gay man.

Kind of feels like patting down the last shovel load of earth on the coffin of the 20th Century.

Now we just need people to see that we don't need a Pope, done and dusted!

[ranzino]

Now we just need people to see that we don't need a Pope, done and dusted!

nobody forces you to abide by the pope anyway

[Elba]

That's unfortunate to hear. I hope Irish mothers still choose to make responsible decisions.

Me too. They will decide whether having a child or an abortion is the right choice for their individual situation. Good on them.

[alabaster jones]

A victory for common sense, good to hear.

[Pickynerd]

People still have children. Legalizing abortion doesn't mean there will be a free-for-all to abort as many pregnancies as people can. It's not a fun procedure. It doesn't make people feel happy. No one gets abortions for the fun of it.

No one gets shot for the fun of it either.

[Tabrotar]

Seig is German

Zeig is english

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Tell that to a 12yo pregnant because her father raped her.

IF we wanna play grammar nazi it would be "Sieg Heil" so you´re both wrong.

[Darsithis]

No one gets shot for the fun of it either.

That makes no sense. How does that relate to what I said?

[Torrasque]

Good for Ireland. Traditionalist religious zealots shouldn't be passing on laws on people, period.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Okay first thing first. The amount of people who get an abortion because of rape, contraception failure or medial reason threatening the life of the mother or the child are much much much much much lower than what you imagine. Well over 90% of abortion are because of straight up negligence and/or irresponsibility.

In my book, that small amount of people who find themselves in these unfortunate situation should get an abortion if they want it and they shouldn't even pay for it IMO (although I don't know how they would prove contraception failure with some types of contraceptions, no one is collecting used condoms). My issue is with the overwhelming majority who just don't give a shit about anything and just want an easy fix after fucking up (pun intended) instead of preventing the problem from happening in the first place.

All of this makes for a terrible way of thinking, this whole "sure go ahead, do everything wrong we'll fix it later" kind of attitude is really damaging in the long term for our society. This is more than just giving women 1 more choice after the many choices they already had before the fact.

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Nope, think further, have your phone nearby, ready to dial 911 once your nose starts bleeding. Maybe you'll get there.

You're outraged that strangers have the personal freedom to have sex, get pregnant and then decide not to bring another life into the world, terminating the pregnancy long before there is a life to speak of.

Today was a good day, when your kind lost another hold on this world. As someone having seen what it can be to go through an abortion (a friend), I feel like nukes would be a good idea whenever someone such as yourself bring out the thinly veiled misogyny that is "pro-life".

Pro-choice, is to be pro-life for people already born, living their lives and having circumstances to deal with.

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IF we wanna play grammar nazi it would be "Sieg Heil" so you´re both wrong.

LOL, My thought exactly.

[Theodarzna]

See, Catholic Church is dead, it can't even resist this.

[Zelk]

Wonderful victory for the feminist movement in Ireland. A long way too go but this was huge. Delighted for them. The North is Next!

[Torto]

Good to see Ireland has joined the rest of the civilised world and legalised state sanctioned murder of the inconvenient.