1. #3801
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    I never pretended I have knowledge that Exorsus has when they voiced their stance they welcome PL. I don't know much about splits and have never done them, for example.

    And of course Blizz knows, I believe Blizz has knowledge based on data (this is the argument) why they have implemented the change better for most, not for a tiny minority, again, it's a closed deal, too late to cry.
    And yet you still claim they are against ML? Kek.

    As many others have stated already the reasoning why Blizzard changes this, we don't know for 100% and I doubt it's based on their magical data which proves if abuse has happened or not.

    You know you are not the first one ending each sentence with how the change is done and it's too late to cry, a pitty you have to resort to that kind of thing, it might work in middle school, else it's kinda sad.

  2. #3802
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    I never pretended I have knowledge that Exorsus has when they voiced their stance they welcome PL. I don't know much about splits and have never done them, for example.

    And of course Blizz knows, I believe Blizz has knowledge based on data (this is the argument) why they have implemented the change better for most (so it was likely not "just my problem"), not for a tiny minority, again, it's a closed deal, too late to cry.
    I think it was established that the "minority" of raiders are the mythic pushers and those on top level. Actually, the "majority" as you say, are the casuals

    And I like it how you say that blizzard know how to make it better, after the abomination we call "legendary system" or "artifact power"
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  3. #3803
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    And yet you still claim they are against ML? Kek.

    As many others have stated already the reasoning why Blizzard changes this, we don't know for 100% and I doubt it's based on their magical data which proves if abuse has happened or not.

    You know you are not the first one ending each sentence with how the change is done and it's too late to cry, a pitty you have to resort to that kind of thing, it might work in middle school, else it's kinda sad.
    I don't "claim" anything, their position is readily available if you care to look.

    I can see why you are so upset, what I don't understand is that you don't realize it's already a done deal, finita la comedia.

  4. #3804
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    I don't "claim" anything, their position is readily available if you care to look.

    I can see why you are so upset, what I don't understand is that you don't realize it's already a done deal, finita la comedia.
    I think its for the same reason with flying in legion. They announced there will NOT be flying AT ALL. People started complaining. IT was reverted
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  5. #3805
    so all this desperate whining is in hope of reversion, lol, good luck

  6. #3806
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    so all this desperate whining is in hope of reversion, lol, good luck
    desperate whining = arguments which btfo you so you have to resort in stating the same obvious stuff at the end of each post.
    But your "mean jerks stole muh loot" is not whining? Got'cha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackWest View Post
    I think its for the same reason with flying in legion. They announced there will NOT be flying AT ALL. People started complaining. IT was reverted
    The funny thing is, I doubt that many people think debating anything on mmo is going to change Blizzards thinking. A forum is here to debate ideas foremost. No clue why people think we debate here so Blizzard changes anything. If that would be the case, people would write in the offical WoW forum. But I guess if you've got no arguments left, then this comes handy.

  7. #3807
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    desperate whining = arguments which btfo you so you have to resort in stating the same obvious stuff at the end of each post.
    But your "mean jerks stole muh loot" is not whining? Got'cha.
    I was tempted earlier while replying to him, to suggest him game like Witcher 3, or Skyrim, if he wants to "have his loot" but even there he would be "depraved" of it, this time by simply being bad at the game. You know, not many games reward participation, but actually reward efford and skill
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  8. #3808
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackWest View Post
    I was tempted earlier while replying to him, to suggest him game like Witcher 3, or Skyrim, if he wants to "have his loot" but even there he would be "depraved" of it, this time by simply being bad at the game. You know, not many games reward participation, but actually reward efford and skill
    Kek, at least you can cheat there or use some easy to play mods.

  9. #3809
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    desperate whining = arguments which btfo you so you have to resort in stating the same obvious stuff at the end of each post.
    But your "mean jerks stole muh loot" is not whining? Got'cha.

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    The funny thing is, I doubt that many people think debating anything on mmo is going to change Blizzards thinking. A forum is here to debate ideas foremost. No clue why people think we debate here so Blizzard changes anything. If that would be the case, people would write in the offical WoW forum. But I guess if you've got no arguments left, then this comes handy.
    That was just a guess. I DO remember seeing like 5 topics every day when they announced no flying. Also, I do actually think some community managers working for blizzard actually read mmo-c. Might be wrong here though, but i've obtained that impression.

    Thing is, I dont keep posting to try and get them revert it. I hope they do, but I dont see it happening. They have been really stubborn in the last few years, to appeal for the casual audience, and surprisingly, while they kept reporting numbers, it was going down and down. And tbh, even now the game feels pretty empty, so I am not going to be surprised if we are at all time low. I keep writing, coz I cant stop myself from putting some sense into the heads of the people who are like horses with blinders and cannot even notice their surroundings. It appears to be pointless though, so I try to do it less. However, there is always this one guy whose statement will make me do a "quadruple super sayan 3 facepalm" and I cant resist to say something
    Last edited by JackWest; 2018-05-28 at 03:10 PM.
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  10. #3810
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    desperate whining = arguments which btfo you so you have to resort in stating the same obvious stuff at the end of each post.
    But your "mean jerks stole muh loot" is not whining? Got'cha.
    I only shared my observations which are in line with Blizz's decision to stop abuse and implement the change. I have never given any examples when loot issues affected me.

    so who's in high school now, maybe somebody is still in secondary school.

  11. #3811
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    I only shared my observations which are in line with Blizz's decision to stop abuse and implement the change. I have never given any examples when loot issues affected me.

    so who's in high school now, maybe somebody is still in secondary school.
    You stated more than once how ML is used mostly by jerks and what not. You make conclusions about the character of people using a mere fucking loot system. I think you can answer your last question yourself perfectly fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackWest View Post
    That was just a guess. I DO remember seeing like 5 topics every day when they announced no flying. Also, I do actually think some community managers working for blizzard actually read mmo-c. Might be wrong here though, but i've obtained that impression.

    Thing is, I dont keep posting to try and get them revert it. I hope they do, but I dont see it happening. They have been really stubborn in the last few years, to appeal for the casual audience, and surprisingly, while they kept reporting numbers, it was going down and down. And tbh, even now the game feels pretty empty, so I am not going to be surprised if we are at all time low. I keep writing, coz I cant stop myself from putting some sense into the heads of the people who are like horses with blinders and cannot even notice their surroundings. It appears to be pointless though, so I try to do it less. However, there is always this one guy whose statement will make me do a "quadruple super sayan 3 facepalm" and I cant resist to say something
    Yep, I know what you mean. It's not the same anymore. But maybe Blizzard will change it back again or at least alter it. I can already see the first threads because of the problems this change will put out. Also about the part of putting sense into people, meh, you can easily detect it by someone using the "Blizzard is god and all changes they do are good", from then on it's a lost cause.

  12. #3812
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    You stated more than once how ML is used mostly by jerks and what not. You make conclusions about the character of people using a mere fucking loot system. I think you can answer your last question yourself perfectly fine.
    Yes I've seen plenty of jerks in charge of ML, especially when I was double/triple raiding on alts.

    Yes as a member of loot council myself often I could not be 100% sure I've always made best decisions (even with all input) and I know some people on loot council are not even close to it.

    Blizz has the data, it became a critical issue, hence the change.

  13. #3813
    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    Yes I've seen plenty of jerks in charge of ML, especially when I was double/triple raiding on alts.

    Yes as a member of loot council myself often I could not be 100% sure I've always made best decisions (even with all input) and I know some people on loot council are not even close to it.

    Blizz has the data, it became a critical issue, hence the change.
    you think that every change blizzard has ever made was done due to it being a critical issue? lol

    its almost like implying they've never made any mistakes and have never done something stupid

  14. #3814
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    you think that every change blizzard has ever made was done due to it being a critical issue? lol

    its almost like implying they've never made any mistakes and have never done something stupid
    you are trying to generalize to neglect the current issue obviously supported by data.

    it's supported by my observations as well, so I'm ok with that, Exorsus also agrees.

  15. #3815
    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    you are trying to generalize to neglect the current issue obviously supported by data.

    it's supported by my observations as well, so I'm ok with that, Exorsus also agrees.
    what data? data that most people used personal loot? that isnt gonna justify the removal of master loot tho.. and who cares if Exorsus agree? per every exorsus there are multiple other top guilds that say its a terrible change

  16. #3816
    If you care to scroll back and read the whole thread, there is a person who described better than I can how data in Blizz is collected and analyzed, including all customer service claims. I prefer to respect Blizz and believe they are trying to make good decisions that are fact based. I've done my piece of critical analytcs, nothing disagrees there.
    Last edited by kooz; 2018-05-28 at 03:37 PM.

  17. #3817
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    Yes I've seen plenty of jerks in charge of ML, especially when I was double/triple raiding on alts.

    Yes as a member of loot council myself often I could not be 100% sure I've always made best decisions (even with all input) and I know some people on loot council are not even close to it.

    Blizz has the data, it became a critical issue, hence the change.
    Because you are unable to use loot council correctly and because you've met plenty of jerks using ML (again, strange many people never met any because of ML, but I am sure the problem were all the other people, never the only constant, which was you). ML should be removed. I forgot the magical Blizzard data which makes them never do mistakes as has been shown in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    what data?
    Nobody has seen it, but it's there, 100%, I promise. Some guy on MMOC said so

  18. #3818
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    Because you are unable to use loot council correctly and because you've met plenty of jerks using ML (again, strange many people never met any because of ML, but I am sure the problem were all the other people, never the only constant, which was you). ML should be removed. I forgot the magical Blizzard data which makes them never do mistakes as has been shown in the past.
    Yes, it's magical data, while you and I may look from different roofs.

    You are diverting from the issue, I just highlighted that even in good scenarios sometimes they don't know what they are doing in loot councils.

    Many jerks exist, it became a critical problem exploiting loot distribution in the system available, as one of the reasons.

  19. #3819
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooz View Post
    Yes, it's magical data, while you and I may look from different roofs.

    You are diverting from the issue, I just highlighted that even in good scenarios sometimes they don't know what they are doing in loot councils.

    Many jerks exist, it became a critical problem exploiting loot distribution in the system available, as one of the reasons.
    I think we can all agree that abuse DOES happen. I dont think anyone is arguing against that. What is argued about, is some people's claims how "most" guilds do abuse their members. Yes, thats right, they keep saying "most", which by definition would be more than 51% of the guilds using ML. I would love to see an actual data supporting that statement, but so far nobody provided any. They just kept repeating the statement over and over like a broken recorder
    Last edited by JackWest; 2018-05-28 at 03:56 PM.
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  20. #3820
    RIP Social members of Mythic guilds, no longer will the guild have room to get you heroic mounts and achievements during pre-mythic week, for you may receive the gear needed for the next week. RIP Social members, we barely knew ye.

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