Game is becoming increasingly dumbed down

[Noradin]

The Problem with abilities is that over the course of WoW there have been too much abilities for players to handle

When exactly was that time where there supposedly were too much abilities for players to handle?
(And yes, I know of the spells you spoke of, and their use despite not really playing warlock and shaman all that much. I did play priest and I still miss mind soothe. I liked the other two spells, too, they were part of what made this game a RPG.)

[Deleted]

When exactly was that time where there supposedly were too much abilities for players to handle?
(And yes, I know of the spells you spoke of, and their use despite not really playing warlock and shaman all that much. I did play priest and I still miss mind soothe. I liked the other two spells, too, they were part of what made this game a RPG.)

Try some arena with a pre-prune afflock or resto sheman. You essentially needed a macro to macro all your macros.

[nodq]

"The game is getting more easy"...

It's a 13 year old game which has millions of hours of knowledge spread across the internet, if you want to learn a class/spec you have so much choices now than before, you can look up videos etc (even the bad ones will teach a bad player to become better). Compare todays internet with 200X, alot has changed. Some stuff back then really felt weird also. And for PvP back then, 3v3... RMP, 2v2 Warr/Rdruid or Rshaman, where were every other class/spec? some specs were viable and/or played while some were just so imbalanced it was no fun at all (take Enhance shaman in TBC, you could count the amount of them on your fingers).

Im not saying i didnt enjoy playing back then, but if you don't see why or how the game have improved, get your head out of the sand

mage/rog, shadow/rog, BM/rog, WL/rog, WL/mage, rog/rdruid, rog/hpal, war/hpal, war/rsham, disc/rog, disc/mage, rdruid/hunter... etc.

So I am pretty sure you never played TBC 2v2 at all. Otherwise you would know. So why making things up that ain't true at all? And if you count in Season1 in tbc, there were lots of comps, ebcause it was new, and none had a clue about any meta game. Thats why it was a great experience in the first place. It was new.

Todays 2v2 is just a joke, not only because of stupid dampening. It sucks since Blizzard had the brilliant idea to kill off 2v2 bracket by eliminating titles from it, even tho it was the most played bracket by far. I am pretty sure that even today, 2v2 is the most played bracket, I would bet on it. Blizzard couldn't balance DKs for 2v2, they gave up on it, that was one of the main reasons for sure. But it is 10+ years later, no one cares anymore actually.

[Banard]

*Did I say that the game is becoming increasingly dumbed down?

***takes out original wow box with CDs still in sides and 12 years of dust***

**reads game for 12+****

**looks at OP sees 35 year old man***

hmmmm............

[Darsithis]

It's a sad fact since Activision Blizzard released Cataclysm their main task was to dumb down everything so that they can cator to casuals rather than their hardcore audience.

WoW was never targeted at a hardcore audience. Ever. It was more casual than any MMO prior to it, and that's a trend that it has always embraced.

[Shammyrock]

Was wow ever a complex game?

[Ehrenpanzer]

* Class Design is at an all-time low.

Most specs now are both incredibly easy to play and easy to master. The gap between a good player and a bad player has never been smaller

* The amount of handholding during questing is jaw-dropping

* Pruning is over the top

We haven´t got any meaningful (permanent) abilities since WoD and from now on every new ability/cool interaction we earn will be taken away from us at the start of a new expansion. Core abilities are turned into talents (Hammer of Wrath, Shadow Word: Death, Consecration...) which shows lack of ideas and lazy design. In the game´s current state, more buttons would indeed mean more engaging gameplay. Depth is gone.

* Everything is made to take longer without being challenging.

Yes, they changed the leveling process. But it is still just as brainless as before, only takes longer. There is no challenge whatsoever, except getting through the slugfest while accepting that three rotational abilities is all you have. What has become of old Combustion? Old Efflorescence? MoP engaging class gameplay? The game is being designed for half-wits and people with dysfunctional neurotransmitter circuits now. It is reflecting whats going on in the world in general. People are stupid and it is lucrative to cater to stupidity instead of trying to raise people to their senses and wake them up.

* BfA feels more like a patch than an expansion and everything is reused, but just has a new name

1) warfronts - similar to WoD garrison invasions

2) island expeditions - similar to legion invasions / invasion points

3) the whole setting up of our base in the new zone feels like establishing a garrison in WoD

4) the azerite system feels so much like the Netherlight Crucible. It also feels like a system meant to tax those who play multiple specs

5) right now leveling in BfA is just useless, you don´t become stronger, you don´t gain any cool interactions with spells or new abilities. There is no level 120 talent row. You just level because you have to. The road is compulsory. But in the past we at least got something along the way, be it new abilities, talents, artifact skills or cool interactions every 2 levels.

6) the whole Honor system is almost entirely unchanged. Most of the entire talent system is unchanged. Almost all specs feel the same. Even Prestige rewards stay the same. Keystone Master achievement rewards will stay the same, too. No new one for bfa +15 completion. Feels half-assed, rushed and characteristic of a game whose lead developer tries to manage the decline of, not to bring it to new heights

7) the whole time-gating fiasco will be more ridiculous than ever before. You might get a new item but you cannot upgrade it because your azerite level is not high enough so you have to wait weeks to be able to use it properly. Expect this to continue throughout the whole expansion. You receive a cool carrot but it will stay in your backpack and waiting for being able to equip it is like waiting for a timer to run out

8) it seems the game emphasizes cosmetic rewards more than anything. Sad that most people seem to have forgotten how cheap the current allied races actually look, the Nightborne in particular.


I could go on and on. Did I say that the game is becoming increasingly dumbed down? Oh yes, it is. But that´s to be expected, because humanity is becoming increasingly dumbed down, despite the fact that raising the level of one´s consciousness has never been easier...

Call me when you get Mythic Argus and are world first ranked "insert your class here". I expect it next week at the latest, since you know, its all so easy for you.

[4justice]

totally agree (playing since vanilla) the game is at its worst point, class design is shit yet we see only cosmetic and stupid "allied races" updates in beta... I wasted my money by purchasing bfa and i have been wasting my game time for 5 months, the game is simply dead and very boring to play in all aspects

[Accendor]

Call me when you get Mythic Argus and are world first ranked "insert your class here". I expect it next week at the latest, since you know, its all so easy for you.

I see you have no idea what this thread is about.

[Deleted]

* Class Design is at an all-time low.

Most specs now are both incredibly easy to play and easy to master. The gap between a good player and a bad player has never been smaller

* The amount of handholding during questing is jaw-dropping

* Pruning is over the top

We haven´t got any meaningful (permanent) abilities since WoD and from now on every new ability/cool interaction we earn will be taken away from us at the start of a new expansion. Core abilities are turned into talents (Hammer of Wrath, Shadow Word: Death, Consecration...) which shows lack of ideas and lazy design. In the game´s current state, more buttons would indeed mean more engaging gameplay. Depth is gone.

* Everything is made to take longer without being challenging.

Yes, they changed the leveling process. But it is still just as brainless as before, only takes longer. There is no challenge whatsoever, except getting through the slugfest while accepting that three rotational abilities is all you have. What has become of old Combustion? Old Efflorescence? MoP engaging class gameplay? The game is being designed for half-wits and people with dysfunctional neurotransmitter circuits now. It is reflecting whats going on in the world in general. People are stupid and it is lucrative to cater to stupidity instead of trying to raise people to their senses and wake them up.

* BfA feels more like a patch than an expansion and everything is reused, but just has a new name

1) warfronts - similar to WoD garrison invasions

2) island expeditions - similar to legion invasions / invasion points

3) the whole setting up of our base in the new zone feels like establishing a garrison in WoD

4) the azerite system feels so much like the Netherlight Crucible. It also feels like a system meant to tax those who play multiple specs

5) right now leveling in BfA is just useless, you don´t become stronger, you don´t gain any cool interactions with spells or new abilities. There is no level 120 talent row. You just level because you have to. The road is compulsory. But in the past we at least got something along the way, be it new abilities, talents, artifact skills or cool interactions every 2 levels.

6) the whole Honor system is almost entirely unchanged. Most of the entire talent system is unchanged. Almost all specs feel the same. Even Prestige rewards stay the same. Keystone Master achievement rewards will stay the same, too. No new one for bfa +15 completion. Feels half-assed, rushed and characteristic of a game whose lead developer tries to manage the decline of, not to bring it to new heights

7) the whole time-gating fiasco will be more ridiculous than ever before. You might get a new item but you cannot upgrade it because your azerite level is not high enough so you have to wait weeks to be able to use it properly. Expect this to continue throughout the whole expansion. You receive a cool carrot but it will stay in your backpack and waiting for being able to equip it is like waiting for a timer to run out

8) it seems the game emphasizes cosmetic rewards more than anything. Sad that most people seem to have forgotten how cheap the current allied races actually look, the Nightborne in particular.


I could go on and on. Did I say that the game is becoming increasingly dumbed down? Oh yes, it is. But that´s to be expected, because humanity is becoming increasingly dumbed down, despite the fact that raising the level of one´s consciousness has never been easier...

How about...

YOU ACTUALLY TRY THE LIVE GAME FIRST?

Jesus.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Honestly I don't think rotations or classes are really the problem. It is more what you are doing with them. Sure raids are challenging because of mechanics and team work. Sure mythic+ is challenging because of scaling and affix mixups. PVP is challenging because you run into a human once in a while that knows what they are doing. But aside from those 3 things that are mostly que (or limited group up time) up and go while every other aspect of the game you need really no skill, no gear, no anything to really acomplish anything. Then even in those 3 things it boils down to win slow or win fast. If you are good and are in good groups you win fast. If you suck and are in terrible groups you win but at a slower rate. Because you still earn "points" and "gear" just not as quickly.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I see you have no idea what this thread is about.

"Most specs now are both incredibly easy to play and easy to master."
"Everything is made to take longer without being challenging"

I see you have no idea how to read, or have any ability at all other then to make stupid comments that show your ignorance. The title is "Game is becoming increasingly dumbed down", not "BFA dumbs down the game".

[Deleted]

totally agree (playing since vanilla) the game is at its worst point, class design is shit yet we see only cosmetic and stupid "allied races" updates in beta... I wasted my money by purchasing bfa and i have been wasting my game time for 5 months, the game is simply dead and very boring to play in all aspects

Assuming you are 30+ if you start playing since you were 15...

Then it's about time to get out and get married or something. You had plenty of fun for all those years, for as little as going to movies(without snack)every month. You have to give that to them.

[Nakur]

There is some thruth in the matter... Blizz started out reasonably challenging in comparrison to what we have going on live. back in the old days pulling 1 mob with +2 lvls was ok, pulling 2 required you to pop cds, as where 3 mobs required you to run away, reset and hope you dont pull more

Last few expasions they start out pleasing the more hardcore players, and throughout the following years, they dumb it down to please the casual players

[gioderpington]

The most complex the game ever was was in WOTLK when you had 10 secondary stats that actually mattered. But that is only gear wise. At first I wanted to agree, just thinking of doing heroic 25 man LK was a mess 99% of the time, but lmao... That fight is as complex as a dungeon boss now.
This game is far more complex then it used to be, it just has a lot more ways to get things then grind for literally months.
Examples: WOTLK: Had to grind for literally months to get the stupid axe. Could use it for about a month before nerfs rolled in. Was basically cosmetic. Legion: Grinded for literally two years to build the ultimate artifact weapon. Did complex challenges ranging from heroic kills, personal challenges, and PvP to unlock appearances and AP.
Vanilla: Grinded weeks to build resources for a 40 man raid that required months to unlock and prep for; bosses had 3 mechanics that usually 2/3 were don't stand in stuff or literally just required a certain class or resistance to ignore.
Panda+: Idk if you've played mythic raids but the raids are so complex that they can take months to learn if you are not over-geared. Coordinating 20 people to do even eonar is more difficult than telling 40 people to dot more and dont stand in fire.

Granted classes could be more complex and have more varied skill caps, but they just took complexity away from the classes and added to the raids/PvP. They also stated that they wouldn't time gate things anymore. Kinda held true so far, we shall see.

Also: You are just better at the game. We all are. We were kids, teens, when we played vanilla-wotlk. I cannot believe 10-12 year old you was better at WoW or any game then you are now. The game isn't easier or really any less complex, you are just better.

Do agree on the leveling seems kinda pointless. But hey, it's a good opportunity to experience the world and relearn your class over a week.

[Laserknees]

lmao bitching about 'pruning' is just a safe way for forum whiners to assert that they are good at the game in front of other players without ever having to back it up

[tyrlaan]

I could go on and on. Did I say that the game is becoming increasingly dumbed down? Oh yes, it is. But that´s to be expected, because humanity is becoming increasingly dumbed down, despite the fact that raising the level of one´s consciousness has never been easier...

Well, you actually did go on and on.

But more importantly, you kicked off a thread way back in February of last year like this:

My reasons:

1) Too much RNG.
2) Melee does on average more DPS and is easier to play in Nighthold and Mythic+ (Volcanic lol, Orb of Destruction lol, Mark of Frost lol, etc lol)
3) RNG.
4) BiS legendaries being who knows how far from your reach. They removed BiS loot by having TF and WF, but BiS legendaries will just fill that hole for ya

In a lot of ways the whole Suramar storyline with the Withered can be seen as an allegory for addicted WoW players who despite all that RNG will persist against whatever obstacle RNG can set to their path. Just to get that next item! WHICH COULD BE TF!! OR A LEGENDARY! OR, EVEN, A BIS LEGENDARY!

Blessed be your addicted souls guys. (And also those of you who are not addicted and would have come here to defend themselves had I not added just that current sentence, the reading of which you just concluded)

edit: RNG is good, but not to the extent we have it now. There should be a middle ground somewhere.

The important bit is the subject of that thread was "Why will YOU not renew your subscription?"

So if you were leaving over a year ago, why are you here still raging about the game and picking apart the next xpac?

You might want to be careful about brags about "raising the level of one's consciousness".

[Golden]

Honestly I don't think rotations or classes are really the problem. It is more what you are doing with them. Sure raids are challenging because of mechanics and team work. Sure mythic+ is challenging because of scaling and affix mixups. PVP is challenging because you run into a human once in a while that knows what they are doing. But aside from those 3 things that are mostly que (or limited group up time) up and go while every other aspect of the game you need really no skill, no gear, no anything to really acomplish anything. Then even in those 3 things it boils down to win slow or win fast. If you are good and are in good groups you win fast. If you suck and are in terrible groups you win but at a slower rate. Because you still earn "points" and "gear" just not as quickly.

I think it's pretty hard for Blizzard to make challenging open world content.

In Legion, people expected you to do about 150K DPS to get into mythic+0 at the start of the expansion. Now, toward the end of the expansion, raiders are doing over 3M DPS. That's 20 times higher.

To put this into perspective, I saw some math in another thread showing that player power only increased about 60% over the course of Vanilla WoW.

[yjmark]

Meh - game does not really feel any different to me in terms of complexity or being "dumbed down". Still plays pretty much the same. For leveling, it's much better than pre 7.3.5 too (mobs don't just insta-die anymore and you can complete entire zone stories). So that is a bonus.

[jazen]

It's not like there aren't websites and forums that gather all the information about the game and make it accessible to players. Some aspects are simpler, some of the simplicity is a matter of knowledge.