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  1. #141
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    There are so many crazy-talented black actors (Denzel, Donald Glover, MB Jordan, etc) that there is less than no excuse to whitewash MLK.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyoken View Post
    Depict the real thing. Fuck this diversity bullshit. I'm white and that sounds terrible. It's like a black James Bond...Idris Elba doing that part would prob be amazing and he would play it off really good. But still...no. Would feel wrong on so many levels.
    I am not a huge Bond fan, but I thought James Bond was a title which is how they explained so many different actors playing the role? In that case Idris Elba would fit

    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    oh okay.

    I'm gonna go make a movie called

    "looters of the lost box"

    it's about a black guy named Idaho James who's an archeologist in the 30s and is working to steal a magical box from the nazis.

    but it's totally not indiana jones dont worry.
    And you would be sued for copyright infringement because of the similarities. Are you fucking trying to be obtuse on purpose or what? While Creed follows a similar story it isnt a reboot, it is a continuation of the Rocky story. You are not taking a well known fictional character, Apollo Creed, and changing the race of him. What Creed does is create NEW characters.

    Fine, would it be better if they rebooted Star Wars and had Tom Hardy play Lando? What about if they rebooted Forrest Gump and made Bubba a white guy? Or made Lucius Fox White, Axel Foley, Mace Windu etc.. take your fucking pick

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    I am not a huge Bond fan, but I thought James Bond was a title which is how they explained so many different actors playing the role? In that case Idris Elba would fit



    And you would be sued for copyright infringement because of the similarities. Are you fucking trying to be obtuse on purpose or what? While Creed follows a similar story it isnt a reboot, it is a continuation of the Rocky story. You are not taking a well known fictional character, Apollo Creed, and changing the race of him. What Creed does is create NEW characters.

    Fine, would it be better if they rebooted Star Wars and had Tom Hardy play Lando? What about if they rebooted Forrest Gump and made Bubba a white guy? Or made Lucius Fox White, Axel Foley, Mace Windu etc.. take your fucking pick
    I wouldnt care if they would be good for the part. Lando being black was a political move in the first place. They needed a black character in star wars so they made lando.(dont get me wrong they made a great character but let's not forget their motivations)

    and yes creed is a soft reboot

    twist it all you want but that's what it is.
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-05-30 at 06:55 PM.

  4. #144
    .......

    You guys do realize that you're comparing mythical/fictional characters with real life people right? Nothing says that Achilles has to be a white person. There are still people in Greece with very dark skin, and Europeans have a history of creating characters, saints, and heroes who have dark skin or are even African in appearance.

    MLK as a white man kind of defeats the entire purpose of what he did. If its some alternate reality, i could see it, but if you're trying to make a serious historical film, that's a laughable move.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Saninicus View Post
    Well Johnny Depp played a native American. For some reason
    And Emma Stone recently played a half Asian/Hawaii character.

    Emma Stone. Most basic white girl humanly possible.

  6. #146
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Cut the bullshit. No one wants to real life cultural figures portrayed by people who dont look like them. Period. The only exception is if its some sort of satire, retelling, play...which means its not being historically accurate anyway.

    The nonsense other nonsense about fictional characters being portrayed by npn-white actors is a just a bunch a childish nonsense. A fictional character doesn't have to look like x unless its actually built into their persona...Not many have backstories like that.

    Tired of whiny ass snowflakes complaining every time a non-white straight male doesn't play lead in a movie. SJWs are taking over mah moovees. If you're that triggered then dont watch it.

    No one wants to see a white MLK Jr....unless he is played by Tom Hanks.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I'm generally uncomfortable with casting actors in historical plays and movies in roles that aren't historically accurate.

    John Wayne playing Genghis Khan gives me a minor ictus.

    Truth be told historically speaking we always had white folks playing characters that were sorely miscast.

    Jesus (If he existed) wasn't a 6ft long haired white hippy. He was a 5'4ft hairy and brown little Jew.

    Cleopatra was likely looked more like a Turkish peasant woman than a Hollywood diva.

    How many Nativa Americans, Asian, Indians etc did white actors portray over the years?

    People getting all upset about the reverse now is kinda ironic.

    But I also have to say, there were no black Celts, no black Joan of Arc and no black Achilles.

    Tho for example something like Hamilton, while historically inspired does a good job at flipping the race roles while also remaining respectful to the idea of the characters.
    Basically this. Hollywood was, and sometimes still is, awful in this regard.

    Historical movies, and movies based on semi-historical things, should strive for accuracy. I wouldn't expect to see any white characters in a movie about the Han Dynasty of China as an example. And as a Greek, I notice the entertainment industry swings to extremes. It used to be they used very obviously northern Europeans to play Greeks and Romans. Now they've got a black actor playing Achilles. I would have no issue at all with a black character in a show set in ancient Greece, as Africans were present, and "Greekness" at the time was a cultural trait, not an ethnic/genetic one. But to take a well-known, established Greek hero and make him black is cheap. Make a compelling black character in that setting to stand on his own merit. I'd have no issues with that.

    I mean, hell, depending on the sources used, there were, I think, Egyptians and Ethiopians present in the Trojan War, as allies of the Trojans.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    .......

    You guys do realize that you're comparing mythical/fictional characters with real life people right? Nothing says that Achilles has to be a white person. There are still people in Greece with very dark skin, and Europeans have a history of creating characters, saints, and heroes who have dark skin or are even African in appearance.

    MLK as a white man kind of defeats the entire purpose of what he did. If its some alternate reality, i could see it, but if you're trying to make a serious historical film, that's a laughable move.
    Except Homer described Achilles.

    He described him as handsome, youthful, blond.

    Greeks most certainly aren't dark skinned by any measure.

    Furthermore we have a pretty good idea what Greeks looked like as they managed to leave a pretty amazing collection of artwork depicting themselves.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    .......

    You guys do realize that you're comparing mythical/fictional characters with real life people right? Nothing says that Achilles has to be a white person. There are still people in Greece with very dark skin, and Europeans have a history of creating characters, saints, and heroes who have dark skin or are even African in appearance.

    MLK as a white man kind of defeats the entire purpose of what he did. If its some alternate reality, i could see it, but if you're trying to make a serious historical film, that's a laughable move.
    dark skin=/= black

    the dude playing achilles is 100% of african ancestry, and has nothing to do with greeks.
    and no greeks arent dark skinned, like at all.

    heimdall is different since he's from a magical land that's entirely fiction

    but achilles even if fictional(which technically isnt even necessarily true) is still rooted in the real world and has a historically accurate surrounding.
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-05-30 at 07:03 PM.

  10. #150
    Herald of the Titans Alex86el's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Except the characters of Heimdall and Achilles are fictional.

    The others are historical. MAJOR difference there.
    Nothing is certain about Achilles.
    The city of Troy was real.
    Most of the other major characters were real.
    Achilles could very well be real as well.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    I wouldnt care if they would be good for the part. Lando being black was a political move in the first place. They needed a black character in star wars so they made lando.(dont get me wrong they made a great character but let's not forget their motivations)
    It may very weel be a political move, but that doesnt change the point that if you took a popular black fictional character and had a white guy play the role, people would flip.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    and yes creed is a soft reboot

    twist it all you want but that's what it is.
    "Creed is a 2015 American sports drama film directed by Ryan Coogler and written by Coogler and Aaron Covington. A spin-off and sequel to the Rocky film series, becoming its seventh instalment,[4][5][6] the film stars Michael B. Jordan as Adonis Johnson Creed, Apollo Creed's son, with Sylvester Stallone reprising the role of Rocky Balboa"

    A reboot uses the same characters and a similar story line to the original. This is a continuation of the story, Rocky is now the trainer not Micky. Creeds son is the challenger, not Rocky. The fact that the story is similar to Rocky just shows how fucking unoriginal and desperate Hollywood is. Whatever I really dont care anymore, I made my point above.

  12. #152
    I want to see Michael Cera play Shaka Zulu.

    You know you'd watch that.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    dark skin=/= black

    the dude playing achilles is 100% of african ancestry, and has nothing to do with greeks.
    and no greeks arent dark skinned, like at all.
    They are considered darker than northern Europeans. In fact, at the turn of the previous century, Southern Europeans like Greeks were considered to be less intelligent and civilized than Northern Europeans because of their darker skin.

    Additionally, Southern European/Mediterranean skin tones overlap with skin tones found in African populations. Especially African American populations.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    It may very weel be a political move, but that doesnt change the point that if you took a popular black fictional character and had a white guy play the role, people would flip.



    "Creed is a 2015 American sports drama film directed by Ryan Coogler and written by Coogler and Aaron Covington. A spin-off and sequel to the Rocky film series, becoming its seventh instalment,[4][5][6] the film stars Michael B. Jordan as Adonis Johnson Creed, Apollo Creed's son, with Sylvester Stallone reprising the role of Rocky Balboa"

    A reboot uses the same characters and a similar story line to the original. This is a continuation of the story, Rocky is now the trainer not Micky. Creeds son is the challenger, not Rocky. The fact that the story is similar to Rocky just shows how fucking unoriginal and desperate Hollywood is. Whatever I really dont care anymore, I made my point above.
    *SOFT* reboot

    a soft reboot is when you basically start over the franchise but dont disregard the continuity.
    like jurrasic world, or the force awakens, etc.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    Nothing is certain about Achilles.
    The city of Troy was real.
    Most of the other major characters were real.
    Achilles could very well be real as well.
    Rome existed, Marcus Aurelius and Commodus existed, doesn't mean Gladiator actually happened.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    I kind of have to agree.
    I recall I think it was Ridley Scott who made an interview when asked why he cast CHristian Bale as Moses, and he laughed, and said "Because if I didn't it simply wouldn't get made".
    The fans are just as bad as the money guys in this regard, because as Mr Scott said, who in their right mind beyond a handful of people would pay to see a film where they cast random ethnic actors the majority of Hollywood/America has never heard of, so they can bring something in line with historical accuracy? The funders simply wouldn't put any money into it because it would probably tank at the Box Office. It can work in rare occasions, but it is what it is.
    Personally, I think the ethnic communities (and anyone who wants to support it in general), in order to bring change, need to support and watch any films with such actors in, in order to have them make a profit, and convince Hollywood that perhaps casting anything other than "Big names", who sadly are usually just white actors, might be profitable.

    Sadly though, the majority, regardless of ethnicity, just want to watch the same old shite over and over. I mean, look at Adam Sandler

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeh.

    That is irrelevant in terms of this debate, as we shall never know, so in many terms, it is best to assume a fictional character. You're just clutching at straws here with all honesty.
    In Kingdom of Heaven (opinions on the movie may vary) one of the most compelling and key (even if secondary) and memorable roles was played by a nearly completely unknown Syrian actor.

    Salahadin rocked every micro second of screen time he had. If they made a period movie with that guy about Salahadin I'd watch the shit out of it.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    They are considered darker than northern Europeans. In fact, at the turn of the previous century, Southern Europeans like Greeks were considered to be less intelligent and civilized than Northern Europeans because of their darker skin.
    That says more about the ignorance of northern Europeans at the time than it does the racial background of Southern Europeans.

  18. #158
    Interestingly, while it's more a reflection of the medium used, Achilles is often portrayed black on Greek vases, like jet black.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Except Homer described Achilles.

    He described him as handsome, youthful, blond.

    Greeks most certainly aren't dark skinned by any measure.
    Blond hair isn't exclusive to white populations. Just fyi.

  20. #160
    Is race or color relevant to the role and the character? That's the question being posed, even though you've masked it as some sort of reverse-racism. The color of the characters in movies you mentioned is totally irrelevant. Martin Luther King Jr. and his story are important because of ethnicity, not despite it.

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